Is love a game I refuse to play properly?

em ching · Dec 29, 2010

Hi everyone,

I've never been very good at love. Stuff like 'playing hard to get' or playing it cool, treat them 'mean' keep em keen', etc. Now I know a lot of that is exaggerated, and I'm too nice to treat anyone mean... but am I being 'too nice' - naive? I know in the past I've tended to be more interested in those who give less... I think there are times when I should have held back - I'm too bold with those I'm interested in sometimes. I still don't seem to be getting it (though am caring less when people disappoint me), can't keep those I like interested for long anyway... scare 'em off. Either that or they just haven't been the right 'ones'...

I asked yi about someone who I sense is backing off though up till know they've been v friendly. However all via email (My life is lived virtually atm, not least my 'love life' if you can call it that). I might be going to the place where he lives soon so thought I'd suggest meeting up. However I feel he has cooled off and sure enough yi answered:

52. Standstill. Consolidating what has come before and bringing it to a stop. (well we don't live near each other, haven't seen him in a long time, but we've sent a lot of emails)

I then asked (though inside knew that it didn't matter what yi said because I intend to meet him anyway) to comment on still asking him to meet up anyway:
4.2,5,6 > 8
I took hex 4 to mean a) unecessary Q b) you can't plan everything out/know in advance, just gotta live and learn it, 8: seek friendship.
So I'm going to do that regardless of whether he 'fancies' me or not... which I think not. Think I come across as over-friendly which maybe guys find boring, or over-enthusiastic/predictable... too easy... etc.

I then asked if someone I'm not speaking to (the guy I'm estranged from mentioned a lot here) thinks of me:
42.1,3,5 > 52
52 again! Not sure whether to take the positive lines from 42 as meaning much, or reading the answer as a sentence? ie more energy into standing still; not being affected externally, bringing movement to an end, a strong mountain, unmovable.

As I received 52 twice I asked (to ascertain whether 'stilling' equated to 'no love')
'What does 52 equate to re. relationships?'
4.3,5 > 57

4.3 makes me worry... I think I have in the past too eagerly 'thrown myself' at people... but at the same time, at the time I see it as just being friendly, acting naturally... although with the guy I'm now estranged from, I did rely a lot on him, and possibly idealise him...
So my main Q is in this thread: Should I be playing a game? Give more respect to the idea of female 'tactics' to keep men interested? That sounds quite base though... but I'm really starting to think there's something in it.... I seem to put people off! Especially the ones I'm interested in...

I then asked, Is it my eagerness that switches them off?
47.1,6 > 10

47 could suggest that my inital approach to having a relationship is wrong... I become too dependant on external validation etc... which stops me from acting sensibly somehow? Whatever that is... I'm really not sure whether I exhaust situations by putting too much into them?? Or whether it's my outlook that sabotages my relationships... and hex 10 is about proper conduct. Apparently it's about a young girl treading carefully after a tiger, then getting a bit over confident or needy, and through impudence, getting herself bitten...

But how to be in the driver's seat? I always bat balls away from my court... never the tiger... well most of the time... then there's that problem when you don't like the one that likes you (happens less often though).

Any tips and/or interpretations here would be very much appreciated!

And happy new year all

:bows:

gene27 · Dec 29, 2010

Hi em ching

You ask a lot, far more than I could ever give any answer for. I don't know, a lot of people might have good responses to your question, then again, maybe not because it is quite a handful. Regardless, I don't want to have this situation just ignored so I will say what I can.

First of all, some games do work well for the average person. But they don't work with people who are truly mature. They can see right through them. Second, often people are not consciously aware of playing games, but they act as if they are out of fear of being hurt. So people play hard to get not because it works, but because they are afraid of being rejected. The pot is so full when it comes to questions like this. Without knowing you, I don't think anyone can give true justice to the questions. As far as "treating them mean," I think that men tend to do that often to make sure the woman thinks of them as being high enough status that they are a catch. It seems to work on the average woman, but I would not suggest it for a woman truly of class, because it would just be seen as a put down. I would not recommend women be mean to men. It doesn't work.

The next thing I can only say how I personally feel about it. I have no idea how other men feel. I personally do not like to feel a woman is playing hard to get. It puts a man in a tight spot due to all the attention these days on stalking laws etc. If there is the slightest question a man HAS to back off in order to protect himself. Now I realize too though that a lot of men can read women and tell when it is a game and when it is not. But I do not recommend putting a man in that position. I recommend just being yourself and being a loving person not asking anything in return. It is only when we truly let go that something or someone finds their way to us. Often it comes in an unexpected form.

There was an interesting little bit about that once in the David Carradine series Kung Fu where the Master tells young Caine that if he has a need just recognize it but do not struggle for it, and it will come in a natural way.

Here is the other thing too. When we experience rejection on too regular a basis when we are young, we grow to expect it, and then experience it even more which goes even further to reinforce the feeling that something is wrong. That is when we really truly have to let it go.

Gene

superman · Dec 29, 2010

em ching said:
Hi everyone,

I've never been very good at love. Stuff like 'playing hard to get' or playing it cool, treat them 'mean' keep em keen', etc. Now I know a lot of that is exaggerated, and I'm too nice to treat anyone mean... but am I being 'too nice' - naive? I know in the past I've tended to be more interested in those who give less... I think there are times when I should have held back - I'm too bold with those I'm interested in sometimes. I still don't seem to be getting it (though am caring less when people disappoint me), can't keep those I like interested for long anyway... scare 'em off. Either that or they just haven't been the right 'ones'...

I asked yi about someone who I sense is backing off though up till know they've been v friendly. However all via email (My life is lived virtually atm, not least my 'love life' if you can call it that). I might be going to the place where he lives soon so thought I'd suggest meeting up. However I feel he has cooled off and sure enough yi answered:

52. Standstill. Consolidating what has come before and bringing it to a stop. (well we don't live near each other, haven't seen him in a long time, but we've sent a lot of emails)

I then asked (though inside knew that it didn't matter what yi said because I intend to meet him anyway) to comment on still asking him to meet up anyway:
4.2,5,6 > 8
I took hex 4 to mean a) unecessary Q b) you can't plan everything out/know in advance, just gotta live and learn it, 8: seek friendship.
So I'm going to do that regardless of whether he 'fancies' me or not... which I think not. Think I come across as over-friendly which maybe guys find boring, or over-enthusiastic/predictable... too easy... etc.

I then asked if someone I'm not speaking to (the guy I'm estranged from mentioned a lot here) thinks of me:
42.1,3,5 > 52
52 again! Not sure whether to take the positive lines from 42 as meaning much, or reading the answer as a sentence? ie more energy into standing still; not being affected externally, bringing movement to an end, a strong mountain, unmovable.

As I received 52 twice I asked (to ascertain whether 'stilling' equated to 'no love')
'What does 52 equate to re. relationships?'
4.3,5 > 57

4.3 makes me worry... I think I have in the past too eagerly 'thrown myself' at people... but at the same time, at the time I see it as just being friendly, acting naturally... although with the guy I'm now estranged from, I did rely a lot on him, and possibly idealise him...
So my main Q is in this thread: Should I be playing a game? Give more respect to the idea of female 'tactics' to keep men interested? That sounds quite base though... but I'm really starting to think there's something in it.... I seem to put people off! Especially the ones I'm interested in...

I then asked, Is it my eagerness that switches them off?
47.1,6 > 10

47 could suggest that my inital approach to having a relationship is wrong... I become too dependant on external validation etc... which stops me from acting sensibly somehow? Whatever that is... I'm really not sure whether I exhaust situations by putting too much into them?? Or whether it's my outlook that sabotages my relationships... and hex 10 is about proper conduct. Apparently it's about a young girl treading carefully after a tiger, then getting a bit over confident or needy, and through impudence, getting herself bitten...

But how to be in the driver's seat? I always bat balls away from my court... never the tiger... well most of the time... then there's that problem when you don't like the one that likes you (happens less often though).

Any tips and/or interpretations here would be very much appreciated!

And happy new year all

:bows:

You have to get rid of these "bags of tricks" you still carry around in your mind. Until you do, you're just putting on a fake show, which won't attract any real love (you are what you attract). On the other hand, don't *try* to be yourself either, because that is still trying to *control* how others perceive you, which is still fake. Just let yourself *be* yourself, alright, if you know what I mean?

Trojina · Dec 29, 2010

em ching said:
Hi everyone,

I then asked, Is it my eagerness that switches them off?
47.1,6 > 10

47 could suggest that my inital approach to having a relationship is wrong... I become too dependant on external validation etc... which stops me from acting sensibly somehow? Whatever that is... I'm really not sure whether I exhaust situations by putting too much into them?? Or whether it's my outlook that sabotages my relationships... and hex 10 is about proper conduct. Apparently it's about a young girl treading carefully after a tiger, then getting a bit over confident or needy, and through impudence, getting herself bitten...

But how to be in the driver's seat? I always bat balls away from my court... never the tiger... well most of the time... then there's that problem when you don't like the one that likes you (happens less often though).

Any tips and/or interpretations here would be very much appreciated!

And happy new year all

:bows:

Yes to most of the questions...meet him anyway, thats not the readings its just me

52 and relating ? Hmmm its a funny one ...but i do think when asking what others are thinking i think it can mean they feel perfectly fine about how things are, theres nothing they seek to change, they are okay with how things are between you. I lost track of who you got the 52 about...(hang on you snook the ex in there....very sneaky :mischief:

...)
So re the current guy you are thinking of meeting it could be he feels perfectly calm, fine and okay about meeting you. Hes not fretting over it, hes fine with it With your estranged one maybe hes okay with how things are...but i don't really want to go there plus you have to consider the 42.1.3.5)

So 52 re someone elses feelings can go either way depending on what you want. If you want someone to be in a lather over you 52 isn't the answer you'd probably want if you are taking it as an answer to how they are feeling....but if you are asking whether you upset someone or they have 'gone off' you 52 would be quite a reassuring answer i guess .

But the reading that tickled my fancy here is the 47.1.6>10. I love this as an answer to your question. This is surely describing being worried to death (47) about putting a foot wrong (10) 'Dare I' says 47.6 'even trust myself to put one foot in front of the other ?!'...with 47.1 carping on in the background 'whatever you do it'll turn out crap'. So theres risk taking and watching ones conduct in hex 10, this is what your question is really addressing...and 47.1.6 how you feel about these risks.

Seems to me you are a risk taker from what i know of you and fundamentally you will tread tigers tails, and this is a admirable quality IMO not something to quash down. BTW i don't think theres a young girl in hex 10

The only place anyway the tiger bites is in 10.3...mostly in hex 10 someone takes a dangerous step and the tiger doesn't bite as long as they are careful. I think 47.1.6 just shows you being concerned and worried about how you proceed, the good news being 47.6 clearly states there is far far less hindering you than you believe...indeed the only thing thing hindering you could be what you believe. These vines creeping round you in 47.6 aren't really even holding you.

Maybe you don't sabotage relationships

maybe you have no need to blame yourself for not yet having found a fulfilling relationship ? What if you aren't doing anything wrong ?

What if these beliefs that you are doing something wrong so can't get the love you need are those creeping vines that really have no substance anyway.

superman · Dec 29, 2010

gene said:
There was an interesting little bit about that once in the David Carradine series Kung Fu where the Master tells young Caine that if he has a need just recognize it but do not struggle for it, and it will come in a natural way.

That is so true. Just a while ago, I had absolutely no hobby, zilch (unless you call playing video games a hobby). So there I was thinking, like "sh1t, I need to get a real hobby, but I haven't the dar*est clue what?"

A few days later, providence answered my call. I happened to tag along with my family on shopping and came across a $40 mini-indoor helicopter that flies.

Didn't actually look for my new hobby, but rather it *found* me.

[I had been very keen on RC helicopters years ago (never actually owned one b/c the outdoor ones r so expensive, like upwards of $1K), but had forgotten about them... Didn't even know that indoor ones existed, and for so cheap...]

em ching · Dec 30, 2010

gene said:
First of all, some games do work well for the average person. But they don't work with people who are truly mature. They can see right through them. Second, often people are not consciously aware of playing games, but they act as if they are out of fear of being hurt... I think that men tend to do that often to make sure the woman thinks of them as being high enough status that they are a catch. It seems to work on the average woman, but I would not suggest it for a woman truly of class, because it would just be seen as a put down. I would not recommend women be mean to men. It doesn't work.

The next thing I can only say how I personally feel about it. I have no idea how other men feel. I personally do not like to feel a woman is playing hard to get. It puts a man in a tight spot due to all the attention these days on stalking laws etc.

There was an interesting little bit about that once in the David Carradine series Kung Fu where the Master tells young Caine that if he has a need just recognize it but do not struggle for it, and it will come in a natural way.

Here is the other thing too. When we experience rejection on too regular a basis when we are young, we grow to expect it, and then experience it even more which goes even further to reinforce the feeling that something is wrong. That is when we really truly have to let it go.

Gene

Thanks for all this Gene. Well, in that regard I'm not a woman of class. I think that's been immature of me, and I do feel now that I'd behave differently, expect more. It comes down to self-esteem I think.

Your ref. to stalking laws made me chuckle.

I like that quote. It is just so hard to sit back and accept an uncomfortable situation, or not feel keenly your emotional needs sometimes.
I have been rejected a lot, by both girls and boys, so I do carry around the feeling that something is very wrong with me. I think it is both the case that I have been a difficult person, coupled with bad luck re. the people I've met. But I can't help but worry. I've been the one in all these situations, the same rejections playing out with different people in different places, that it must be something in my approach. I do accept though, that being myself would probably work. That's where warmth springs from; genuine connections, being unafraid to show yourself and not try to woo favour and thus not contribute as you, I guess people are suspicious of that. If I'd been able to be myself throughout my life, I'd probably be in less pain about rejection that I am now. It's easy to forget or get frustrated with someone who's hard to get to know and insecure.

Thanks

em ching · Dec 30, 2010

trojan said:
But the reading that tickled my fancy here is the 47.1.6>10. I love this as an answer to your question. This is surely describing being worried to death (47) about putting a foot wrong (10) 'Dare I' says 47.6 'even trust myself to put one foot in front of the other ?!'...with 47.1 carping on in the background 'whatever you do it'll turn out crap'. So theres risk taking and watching ones conduct in hex 10, this is what your question is really addressing...and 47.1.6 how you feel about these risks.

...I think 47.1.6 just shows you being concerned and worried about how you proceed, the good news being 47.6 clearly states there is far far less hindering you than you believe...indeed the only thing thing hindering you could be what you believe. These vines creeping round you in 47.6 aren't really even holding you.

Maybe you don't sabotage relationships maybe you have no need to blame yourself for not yet having found a fulfilling relationship ? What if you aren't doing anything wrong ? What if these beliefs that you are doing something wrong so can't get the love you need are those creeping vines that really have no substance anyway.

Hi Trojan!

Thanks for clearing up hex 52! Quite a nice reading in that light, though no not so good for passion/heart thumping 'love' but that often changes anyway, whereas a mountain is more solid... I do think though that this person is holding firm away from me now. But I've yet to ask him if he wants to meet up, so when I do that I guess it'll get things moving again...

I was told about a little girl in hex 10 by Elias (hope he doesn't mind me sharing what he said):

I just finally got the hang of H10, via Cleary's trans of The Taoist I Ching -- such a sweet picture of the youngest daughter, who can get away with anything... including stepping on the tiger's tale.. Then on the third line, the little girl acts with impudence, and gets bitten.

Thanks for your interpretation of 47.1,6 > 10.
Maybe it's about not letting your negative emotions get in the way of how you proceed. Not letting them get in the way of seeking what you want because you feel unworthy of it or doomed to fail..
I suppose at the moment I'm not breathing freely because I am alone, and so it constrains my conduct - always worried that I'm going to be rejected again, tripping over my vines... But I even though I feel this way, in their eyes it probably seems that I'm over-friendly/confident... I think I do still need to learn to play it

more.

Luckily anway my heart isn't breaking, or even aching/self-blaming, about the man who's become a lazy mountain

Thanks again

em ching · Dec 30, 2010

superman said:
That is so true. Just a while ago, I had absolutely no hobby, zilch (unless you call playing video games a hobby). So there I was thinking, like "sh1t, I need to get a real hobby, but I haven't the dar*est clue what?"

A few days later, providence answered my call. I happened to tag along with my family on shopping and came across a $40 mini-indoor helicopter that flies.

Didn't actually look for my new hobby, but rather it *found* me.

[I had been very keen on RC helicopters years ago (never actually owned one b/c the outdoor ones r so expensive, like upwards of $1K), but had forgotten about them... Didn't even know that indoor ones existed, and for so cheap...]

Nice little story. Hope you're still having fun with it!

I liked what you said, about letting go and being yourself. But to get in that frame of mind, you have to be less worried about the consequences. I guess you have to have faith that by following your nature, you'll get what you need... But I do think playing your cards close to your chest seems to be wise. If you were just yourself, you'd be declaring love and getting nowhere, because you're out of sync with the other. Life has rules and so does love. That's how it seems. But within those rules, I guess you can play the game your own unique way, just a little tactical manouvering seems to work... although I don't know. i am no expert. It could be as simple as, they've all been wrong for me. But I don't think so. I think my insecurites, my weaknesses have in the past, put people off. Whereas if I had behaved from a stronger, happier place, they would have remained interested etc...

Thanks

Trojina · Dec 31, 2010

em ching said:
Hi Trojan!

I was told about a little girl in hex 10 by Elias (hope he doesn't mind me sharing what he said):

I just finally got the hang of H10, via Cleary's trans of The Taoist I Ching -- such a sweet picture of the youngest daughter, who can get away with anything... including stepping on the tiger's tale.. Then on the third line, the little girl acts with impudence, and gets bitten.

Thanks again

oh

i guess in terms of the trigrams of course, the lake below, youngest daughter treads upon the creative above

...life can be translucent

Is love a game I refuse to play properly?

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