Man in question sent me birthday wishes by email and I phoned him to say thank you and tell him the asnwer to his question about my foot surgery.

When I phoned he had a lot of people over, said he would phone me back the next day. He didnt. i waited five days and called him. I asked how his party had been. He said it was impromptu, he had dinner with friends and then invited them over and it lasted til 6 in the morning and it was fun, and sorry he didnt phone me back but by the time he finishes work and thinks to phone me it is too late to call. (excuse).

We had a 40 minute conversation about this and that. He had previously (before my bday) agreed to attend my party on the 19th. On the 16th when we spoke i told him about parking for the 19th party, and we talked about his work and my work and my foot and his international project and etc. it was a warm, casual convo. I didnt have the sense he wanted to get off the phone.

On the 19th, he sent a text saying smthing went wrong in the lab, he could not leave, he is sorry to miss my party. I replied saying well we will be here til late if you want to come later. I was very disappointed. I had planned the party for weeks with the hope of him meeting my friends.

Stupidly I phoned the next day. I actually phoned not to talk about my party but to tell him i had feelings for him. I planned/wrote out a speech... i didnt get to say it bc he had to go immediately, bc he normally makes a phonecall overseas to his family at that time each Sunday & it was already late where they are. He said he would ph one back and never did.

I decided the worst thing I can do now is tell him how i feel. Bc i have been misreading signals all along.

I had thought after two flower deliveries from him (3 weeks ago) and more attention out of the blue he was interested. I now believe I was just reading ito it what i wanted. I have struggled with this (as many of you on the forum know) and I do not know what i am doing wrong. I am trying to guess the rules of the game, but they are not written anywhere. I thought it would be OK to call and treat him like a friend, but the calling has pushed him away (even tho it was only 2 calls). I have never just phoned a guy out of the blue like this and was nervous as heck, my heart POUNDING when I dialed the number. But previous readings had suggested he is scared or shy and doesnt know i'm interested adn to make it safer i should do something to bridge the gap. I thought building a friendship with a convo would help. Now that seems to have been wrong.

Why didn’t he come to the party? 15 integrity twice.
What is my best plan of action to him now? 13.6 > 49

What is this? 13 line 6?? The companions trust one another, even when they are far apart. But the fact that the beloved is in a distant place means that the association is still not fulfilled; the time of true brotherhood of man has not yet arrived. But there is hope and no occasion for reproach.

He doenst seem to trust me or even like me. He didnt come to my party. He has not returned a call --twice. People keep telling me he is interested but scared. I think i'm the stupid one here now. "there is hope"? really? Where? Where is the hope?

Another interpretation: "The warm attachment that springs from the heart is lacking here. We are by this time actually outside of fellowship with others. However, we ally ourselves with them. The fellowship does not include all, but only those who happen to dwell near one another. The meadow is the pasture at the entrance to the town. At this stage, the ultimate goal of the union of mankind has not yet been attained, but we need not reproach ourselves. We join the community without separate aims of our own."

OK no attachment of the heart on his end? Clear. But there is one on mine. It is telling me how it is, not what to do...

I found this on another thread: "13.6 You meet the guest speaker 'out in the field.' That is, not in your own home or place. That part just means the meeting is outside your home. Some translators have added the idea that the person is also 'remote' because he is on a mission; like a soldier fighting a war. He is dedicated to his mission and it is not likely that you'll get close to him -- or as close to him as you wanted to get." Ok my party was outside of my home, and he would not have known anyone there. but i am not asking what happened that night I want to know how to cope going forward.

It continues: "I have had this line simply when meeting a friend somewhere. Something might be disappointing -- but not always. Once I thought the friendship would go on and on but my friend told me she was leaving for another city. That was disappointing. In any case, the advice is not to be sad. "

But i am sad. He is (my "he" in this case) dedicated to his work and i guess i cant be close to him for that reason? is this the message?

Also: "And in the spirit line, 13.6, it is good to stay in the meadow, don't expect everyone to be of the same level. Some change like leopards, others only in the face (49.6). If you limit your exchange to your own level, nothing new or unexpected can meet you, no possibility to grow, to expand your horizon.""

What is that, "to your own level"? I met this man precisely by expaning my horizons, going to a party last summer where I did not know a single soul.

I now want to meet this man on any level he so chooses, wither it is intellectual conversations about international situations or doing archery on the weekends (both of which we've done)... And nothing happens.. and my heart is breaking in two.

Also: "People in the "countryside" appear all the same outwardly but inwardly they are not. To accept this in close relationships is very difficult since we want to be inwardly close as well. I got this line when asking about exactly this to someone I am very close outwardly (I am married to her for 18 years) but feel inwardly quite incompatible for a long time, hence not enough intimacy to feel really content. Unfortunately, this is not going away. So I get regularly frustrated and ask the IGing what the root cause of my frustration was and got 13.6. Should I be worried about this? The IGing says that I shouldn't - no regrets! I find this quite difficult to stomach. It also says that things are quite not yet as they should be! What does that mean? Well, the resulting 49 gives a hint - things need to change quite a bit! But where and how? It seems that the IGing gives a good analysis of the socical circumstances but hasn't got an answer either! Does it mean the their are things in our life we just have to accept? Acceptance of the "normality" of the power of convenience - is that the dramatic change? Is that all?"

My questions exactly. I would love input.

this can be a chapter of a book ...if you publish it i will read it all

13.6->49 things will progress at the right time but is not near future

I feel for you, Elizabeth. You have expressed heartfelt confusion and sincerity.

The first thing that came to my mind - not to do with your reading at all - is, are you sure he's not gay? I don't mean that flippantly.

I don't have a lot of experience in the realm of heterosexual male psychology, but he definitely sounds like a very sweet guy who genuinely likes you and is thoughtful. But yeah, if he was interested in you that way, wouldn't he have made some other moves by now? Wouldn't he be able to read your openness to him pretty easily? Forgive me for stereotyping, but straight guys that I've known don't spend too much time beating around the bush for no apparent reason.

He sounds busy and like he has a full life, too. Are you sure he's not married or already attached?

It might be good just to wait and see what else comes from him. If that takes too long, what harm would it do just to ask him where's he's at? One thing I've always appreciated from someone is just a checking in: "Hey, we've been hanging out a bit and it's been fun. I thought I was reading some signals from you, but I'm not sure. Is there the possibility of something more here?" That opens the way to have a conversation about intentions.

13.6->49 things will progress at the right time but is not near future

Click to expand...

That implies that thing will progress *with him* at the right time. But did you mean that? Bc everything progresses into something else... Also how can you hear "near" (or distant) future from this line/hexagram? I am just curious -- in fact always curious about those who know the months/time frames of hexagrams bc i do not know how to read that.

jfas -

Forgive me for stereotyping, but straight guys that I've known don't spend too much time beating around the bush for no apparent reason.

Click to expand...

formerly he was married. he is divorced. completely single completely straight. But burned REALLY badly and swore would not get married again.
He did say after I thanked him for flowers "that is what friends are for." So its clearly MY BIG FAT problem that no one else has given me flowers unless they're dating me or in love with me. And no one else gave me flowers for my surgery, not even my girlfriends. The most i got was an email "if you need anything" and that was fine. So i was floored with the flowers. Not once but TWICE.

But that's America. He's not American...where he comes from its still kind of a sign (of not just friendship) to give flowers. But given my foot surgery, it *could be seen* jsut as a friendly gesture. But again its my problem that i have no other male or female friends who did for me what he did... so of course i jump to believing there is something there.

Well, I don't think that's your problem in this case.

If you don't want to just ask him, in a gentle way, yourself, then it seems you are choosing to continue wondering about it indefinitely. I don't understand this, but I recognize that many people prefer to do things this way.

Just FYI, my version of 13.6 has: Her beloved is in a distant frontier region--no regret. Commentary: This is not what was desired.

Further commentary: In Chinese history, it often happened that a man was drafted and sent far away to a frontier region from which he could not be expected to return for many years. In this case, his beloved has enough wisdom to give up repining, since the case is a hopeless one. The implication is that we should not repine.

jfas said:

Well, I don't think that's your problem in this case.

If you don't want to just ask him, in a gentle way, yourself, then it seems you are choosing to continue wondering about it indefinitely. I don't understand this, but I recognize that many people prefer to do things this way.

Just FYI, my version of 13.6 has: Her beloved is in a distant frontier region--no regret. Commentary: This is not what was desired.

Further commentary: In Chinese history, it often happened that a man was drafted and sent far away to a frontier region from which he could not be expected to return for many years. In this case, his beloved has enough wisdom to give up repining, since the case is a hopeless one. The implication is that we should not repine.

Click to expand...

Well i figure it this way. I was ready and scripted what to say -- not to ask but to TELL him i am attracted to him. But clearly, we are not dating, he is not asking me out. For whatever reason did not come to my party, whether he had to work or not> DIdnt offer to make it up to me. The writing is on the wall, I feel it would be stupid to ask if he likes me, is attracted to me, wants to date me when: we're not dating & he hasn't asked me out. See what I mean? If he is attracted for some reason, then he is scared or hiding or pulling back or whatever. But bottom line is me asking (i dont think) will change how he feels, and it could make ME look like an even worse idiot than I already feel like right now (bc of my own stupid phoning him after the party).

Your reading not only implies give up pining, but give up hope bc he's never "coming back." Right? Or did i misread it?

elizabeth said:

Stupidly I phoned the next day. I actually phoned not to talk about my party but to tell him i had feelings for him. I planned/wrote out a speech... i didnt get to say it bc he had to go immediately, bc he normally makes a phonecall overseas to his family at that time each Sunday & it was already late where they are. He said he would ph one back and never did.

I decided the worst thing I can do now is tell him how i feel. Bc i have been misreading signals all along.

I had thought after two flower deliveries from him (3 weeks ago) and more attention out of the blue he was interested. I now believe I was just reading ito it what i wanted. I have struggled with this (as many of you on the forum know) and I do not know what i am doing wrong. I am trying to guess the rules of the game, but they are not written anywhere. I thought it would be OK to call and treat him like a friend, but the calling has pushed him away (even tho it was only 2 calls). I have never just phoned a guy out of the blue like this and was nervous as heck, my heart POUNDING when I dialed the number. But previous readings had suggested he is scared or shy and doesnt know i'm interested adn to make it safer i should do something to bridge the gap. I thought building a friendship with a convo would help. Now that seems to have been wrong.


Also: "People in the "countryside" appear all the same outwardly but inwardly they are not. To accept this in close relationships is very difficult since we want to be inwardly close as well. I got this line when asking about exactly this to someone I am very close .

Click to expand...

elizabeth said:

He did say after I thanked him for flowers "that is what friends are for." So its clearly MY BIG FAT problem that no one else has given me flowers unless they're dating me or in love with me. And no one else gave me flowers for my surgery, not even my girlfriends. The most i got was an email "if you need anything" and that was fine. So i was floored with the flowers. Not once but TWICE.

But that's America. He's not American...where he comes from its still kind of a sign (of not just friendship) to give flowers. But given my foot surgery, it *could be seen* jsut as a friendly gesture. But again its my problem that i have no other male or female friends who did for me what he did... so of course i jump to believing there is something there.

Click to expand...

Yup, (re first quote underlined in bold) I recall you having this exact same problem many times....

which is as follows


1. guy shows you seemingly romantic attentions such as giving flowers, cards, calling you and so on

2. It doesn't progress as expected, you are left dangling. he doesn't seem to follow through

3. It drives you nuts and you become agitated and distressed and upset and almost every waking moment is spent in trying to figure the puzzle of how he feels towards you

4. followed by a time of sadness and heartbreak as you relinquish hopes of being together

5. you move on to the next one, or rather another model of the same make appears, who does exactly the same thing !

I wish I could say I knew what was going on here,,not just in this scenario but the previous ones too.

Anyway even without the I Ching I think you are best to try to let this go because he doesn't seem to be making any approaches to you. If he doesn't invite you to his party, doesn't come to your party doesn't ask you out etc etc then hes not showing much interest as you point out.

OTOH I think when a man sends flowers to a woman who isn't a relative or a long term friend it generally denotes romantic feelings doesn't it ? if i were you I would have been confused too.....so you can't blame yourself for reading things into his behaviour as I'd say he did appear to be sending signals he was interested

I think 13.6 has a friendly but distant feel. It isn't a line that would make me hold out for romance....but one could say it has a 'where do we go from here' feel which wouldn't necessarily rule it out


But this has happened to you so often its uncanny. The exact same dynamic is repeating over and over leaving you with the same feelings so somewhere somehow this pattern must be going beyond the odd behaviour of each man in your life, it must go deeper, have its roots in some story you keep playing over and over...until one day theres a resolution.

I feel you need to really dig and delve beneath this pattern...or whatever it is....its just happened too often now hasn't it ?

The only practical advise I can offer is maybe you could save your feelings by letting 'him' in whichever form he appears, go sooner rather than get to the stage of waiting and wondering ?

As the oft quoted 'hes just not that into you' (harsh title but not meant that way) would say 'if he ain't calling you, ain't seeing you, dating you, inviting you out etc etc then he just not that into you....move on sister to someone who can see just how fabulous you actually are'...er thats not direct quote just what i remember


There is something odd going on Elizabeth and I hope this pattern breaks for you and you meet someone who makes it clear what he wants


Meantime if you want to keep contact 13.6 would suggest to me a meeting in a fairly neutral place of shared interest where future possibilities might have a chance to develop. trouble is this is okay if you feel fairly neutral over whether it progresses or doesn't progress. You have slipped into stage 3 of the list above and it would be hard for you to play it casual.....and also he just isn't making moves to you.....
...so you could decide to curtail the stage 3 phase, make the stage 4 phase brief and dig yourself well out of this pattern to new story which would be ?
you fill in the blanks

1.
2.
3.
4.

I don't doubt you have tried the writing a new story to get out of the old one before...I'm just brainstorming really

If this one ends and you go into the grief stage of stage 4...then maybe resolve to watch the pattern next time (and there will, if the pattern goes on unchallenged, be a next time) as it develops, write about it, to discover whats happening in your psyche as it unfolds, what behaviours the man shares with previous men who have led you this dance. Be determined to move on through this story

I think we all have familiar emotional stories we get stuck in, I know I do, and they always seems beyond our control and we keep trying different ways to handle them......and yet sometimes I think we need either outside help or more conscious self awareness/ intervention to move on. Makes me think of the goat in 34.6 who needs rather than to keep head butting the problem, valiantly, just needs to twist and turn his head a little to disentangle.

Anyway you didn't get 34.6 so I'm just rambling.................but you do have a story I think, your story...like a fairytale, a repeated problem, a thicket of thorns you encounter again and again until something magical releases you....

the task is on to find the magic key or whatever to get this story moving on, for you it is a quest I think...so perhaps deserves more time, care and attention than you've been giving it. By which I mean rather than move through these phases 1-5 automatically, with panic, examine them, examine whats happening. Don't berate yourself or call yourself stupid for calling him or having feelings for him ...respect these as clues that can lead you to the magic you seek

THanks Trojan for the thoughtful feedback. I agree with much of what you said. One thing though -- I would be flattered to say this has happened many times before. In fact, in the past 7 years it has happened only with two men, this guy being the second. The other time was last spring, with a clinically narcisisstic (in that case almost proven closet gay) man who has more problems than I thought a human being could possibly have. This situation is different in many ways although I'm not out to argue with your points, which are valid -- the bottom line is in both cases I get hung up at setp #2 in your list -- things dont progress. The reality is unless we all had tons of men interested in us at the same time, we wont ever have someone beyond step 2 unless the suitor is a serious one. Which obviously these 2 men were / are not.

I had a long helpful talk with a very old wiser woman and lifelong friend of mine last night about all this. She said instead of blaming myself --after all I wasnt the one sending flowers-- I need to just not allow my hopes or expectations to go beyond the moment. Which may be the biggest problem. I get flowers and so i think to myself "when is he going to ask me out on a date?" And i get all giddy/excited like a teenager. Well tough cookies i have to not do that. "Flowers, so what". Doesnt mean anything.



In this particular case at any rate, he no longer exists to me. I'm not holding out hope and i'm also not going to contact him. There is no friendship now. There is no nothing. If he wants to contact me he can (and i dont think he will -- why would he?)

You wrote "you could save your feelings by letting 'him' in whichever form he appears, go sooner rather than get to the stage of waiting and wondering ? "

Thats what i'm doing this time.

let me understand .... if i send some flowers to a girl do you think she will spend next 7 months thinking of me ?... cool... flowers for everyone just leave your addresses and phone numbers here

Maybe not 7 months. But three weeks, yeah. esp if you were giving her other signals too.

trojan what a generous and beautiful heart you have to write such a wonderful post. That is why I love this forum so much - the generousity and wisdom that others give.

gato - I will PM my address to you as I would love some flowers, though I can't promise I will think of you much nor have romantic notions about you, soz!
Personally, I either buy or bring flowers in from my garden if they are in bloom, once a fortnight - to give myself the gift of love that my heart deserves.

Hi, Elizabeth, interesting enough, I got the same reading as you last night to a question:
Is that (between me and X) a lost cause? As you can imagine, asking this question shows my current understanding of the situation :-D
Asked a bit before if there is anything else I need to know about this situation - perhaps you should ask the same question, too (and yes, it can drive you crazy if you get fixed on it) I got 13.1,3;
also in the beguining of it 37 into 13-seamed auspicious, otherwise..argh...
I liked hex 13 because at that time, its meaning was "A Friendship, Fellowship" for me, but now seams it says things need to be reconciled between friends who willingly come together....although, I am not wiser than you are -in the situation of mixed signals, who can be.

Would like to hear from you more, send a message if you will. Good luck, *hugs*