Hi there,
two weeks ago I've adopted two old dogs from the kennel just to find out that it's much too much for me. One of them has separation anxiety at night and I'm having one sleepless night after the other trying to settle him, ending up kind-of-sleeping on a blanket in the kitchen floor to prevent him from scratching the door, whine and bark.
It's an unruly dog, at least I don't manage to rule him, while the other one, a 12 years old dog, is very calm and peaceful.
In the house lives also an old cat that now doesn't come out from under the bed since the two dogs came home...
I feel that with only the older dog only I could manage to reestablish harmony and live well. Hard as it seems, I would like to bring the unruly one back to the kennel, a very difficult decision to take.

My questions to the Yi have been:
- What should I do with the dog: 8>20
- Concerning bringing the dog back: 9>20
- Is it ok for me to keep having the dog: 36>24

My emotions and fears and guilt and stress cloud whatsoever understanding I might have. I want to do the best for me, for the dog and for the cat.

Help help help!

emiliana - I am not answering your Yi questions but...last year I so wanted a dog cause after a marriage break up the ex took our beautiful dog and I missed him so much. I met someone and they asked if I could take their dog and I jumped at the chance only to find myself with a very unruly dog just like yours in which I had many sleepless nights no matter what I did. In the end I gave the dog back and they took it to the pound. 12 months later they went and got a brand new puppy which I can only imagine will end up in the same situation cause once the cuteness has worn off they won't want the responsbility and rely on people like you and me to pick up their slack. Do not feel guilty, remove your stress by taking this dog back thereby bring calmness back to you, your cat and your older dog who under no uncertain terms - deserve it! Liss x

Being that dogs are near to my heart, there's much I could say about this. But considering the readings and things you have said, it's probably better to admit defeat with the difficult dog, unless you are ready to invest in what it takes to rehabilitate the dog to its natural disposition, and to train yourself.

This is what the troubled dog senses from you, his or her new pack leader: "My emotions and fears and guilt and stress cloud whatsoever understanding I might have." The dog is probably totally confused, and needs a calm, assertive leader. The dog likely interprets you going out of your way to comfort it as a weakness and a form of submission to it, making it all the more insecure and acting out in destructive ways. Either take charge of the dog, or put it out of its misery.

Sorry if that sounds too blunt. I do interpret your readings that way, but I admit to being bias on this subject.

8>20 implies consult the coven or this forum as it were and think
9>20 make small adaptations

on this point I would say Sooo is right - dogs see kindness as weakness.
Get back in your bed and tell him ti HUSH up!! AND MEAN IT like children
dogs like to feel that someone is in charge. Getting down low with the
dog is a BAD move. Good you are honest because a behaviourist may tell
you how to tweak it. Get free advice off a dog training company they will
be happy to assist - they love dogs!!

36>24 implies in this dark place you have gotten to with it - you will send
the dog back - but somehow and i do not know how you will take him back
(maybe when you have had some rest)

but i had a cat and i took it back - did my head in

Thank you so much godessliss. So you know how it feels...
Sooo, I'm a fan of Ceasar Millan too. I know about being a calm, assertive leader. I've put into practice what I've learned from Ceasar, but damn... the dog couldn't care less of my assertions - he just wants to do what he wants to do. I have panic attacks during which I'm ready to put the dogs in the car and head for the pound. When they are over I feel drained, exhausted and overwrought, plus of course the guilty feelings, the stress and the emotional turmoil.
Please, can anybody help me understand what is the Yi counsel?

Hopex,

thanks for your advice. Just imagine: I live in a small condo and the people living under me are horribly picky, fussy and hate dogs. They showed me all the hostility they managed to master in 24 hours just to make sure the dogs wouldn't disturb them. Now, it's one o'clock at night and one of the dogs is – in the order – doing obsessive pacing, whining, barking and scratching like mad at the kitchen door howling like a wounded wolf just because I left him there with the other dog and went to bed. And the whole show happens in spite of my having being a calm, assertive leader, which of course I didn't manage to be. So I grabb a blanket and sleep on the floor in the kitchen: dog win me loose. I think I'll take care of it tomorrow. Tomorrow is the same game and things are going on like this since ten days.

If the dog causes you panic attacks, it only harms you and the dog(s). I think your last reading reflects this plainly.

As for Cesar's methods, they work with any dog, unless there is an actual mental defect, as happens with inbreeding or brain damage, or if the dog's previous abuse makes its trust irretrievable. But it takes more than watching a few episodes and grasping the basic theory, it takes work and unremitting patience and commitment. Or else, just return it if it's too much to handle. What other answer could there possibly be, other than being miserable?

I had a dog I took under my wing, a runt who was at the bottom of the pecking order of a pack of 5 very wild and dangerous dogs. Through spending a year with them, he earned his own place within the pack. But sadly, when I moved away and into my own place and took him with me, he could not adapt, would jump the fence and chew clear through the back door to get inside and feel secure. I was working full time, and simply didn't have the time to devote to his rehabilitation and acclimation. So I decided to return him to the ranch and pack he was raised with, where he had become well socialized with the pack. I felt bad driving home, cuz I really loved that Bandit, but it was best for us both.

Btw, hex 20 covers (literally) all of these considerations, and any others that could be helpful. 9 talks literally about taking care of small animals, particularly the right frame of mind of the overseer.

ok my sympathies. I answered an ad in the paper 'cat to good home'
i went to this beautiful house and the cat was a fine creature. It had
grown up with a lovely dog they had and the pair of them barked and
miewoed in happy harmony at the chickens in a coup next door!!

So me living in a quiet ancient cottage the cat was to be kept in for
2 weeks so it would not wander off. It was stir crazy - I told the lady
and the cat was reunited with the dog - both creatures were blissed out.

some things arent meant to be. I had to light incense and candles when
i got back because the strain and emotions were too much. I am not a cat
person i learnt from that.

I think 36 is telling us that pooch needs to be taken back. What is confusing
me is 24 - return. Lets hope this widens out with more comments. But
36 is hide your light - how can you keep a low profile with this dog??
You tried to do a good thing, but maybe 2 dogs was biting off more than
you can chew plus barky dogs wind neighbours up. It will be fine

The time has not yet come for sweeping measures. However, we may be able, to a limited extent, to act as a restraining and subduing influence. To carry out our purpose we need firm determination within and gentleness and adaptability in external relations.

Thus the superior man
Refines the outward aspect of his nature.

Wilhelm 9

Click to expand...

Sounds calm assertive and self correcting to me.

emiliana2010 said:

Hopex,

thanks for your advice. Just imagine: I live in a small condo and the people living under me are horribly picky, fussy and hate dogs. They showed me all the hostility they managed to master in 24 hours just to make sure the dogs wouldn't disturb them. Now, it's one o'clock at night and one of the dogs is – in the order – doing obsessive pacing, whining, barking and scratching like mad at the kitchen door howling like a wounded wolf just because I left him there with the other dog and went to bed. And the whole show happens in spite of my having being a calm, assertive leader, which of course I didn't manage to be. So I grabb a blanket and sleep on the floor in the kitchen: dog win me loose. I think I'll take care of it tomorrow. Tomorrow is the same game and things are going on like this since ten days.

Click to expand...

hopex said:

ok my sympathies. I answered an ad in the paper 'cat to good home'
i went to this beautiful house and the cat was a fine creature. It had
grown up with a lovely dog they had and the pair of them barked and
miewoed in happy harmony at the chickens in a coup next door!!

So me living in a quiet ancient cottage the cat was to be kept in for
2 weeks so it would not wander off. It was stir crazy - I told the lady
and the cat was reunited with the dog - both creatures were blissed out.

some things arent meant to be. I had to light incense and candles when
i got back because the strain and emotions were too much. I am not a cat
person i learnt from that.

I think 36 is telling us that pooch needs to be taken back. What is confusing
me is 24 - return. Lets hope this widens out with more comments. But
36 is hide your light - how can you keep a low profile with this dog??You tried to do a good thing, but maybe 2 dogs was biting off more than
you can chew plus barky dogs wind neighbours up. It will be fine

Click to expand...

geez you can't get much lower profile than sleeping on the kitchen floor with the damn dog !

emiliana2010 said:

Hi there,
two weeks ago I've adopted two old dogs from the kennel just to find out that it's much too much for me. One of them has separation anxiety at night and I'm having one sleepless night after the other trying to settle him, ending up kind-of-sleeping on a blanket in the kitchen floor to prevent him from scratching the door, whine and bark.
It's an unruly dog, at least I don't manage to rule him, while the other one, a 12 years old dog, is very calm and peaceful.
In the house lives also an old cat that now doesn't come out from under the bed since the two dogs came home...
I feel that with only the older dog only I could manage to reestablish harmony and live well. Hard as it seems, I would like to bring the unruly one back to the kennel, a very difficult decision to take.

My questions to the Yi have been:
- What should I do with the dog: 8>20
- Concerning bringing the dog back: 9>20
- Is it ok for me to keep having the dog: 36>24

My emotions and fears and guilt and stress cloud whatsoever understanding I might have. I want to do the best for me, for the dog and for the cat.

Help help help!

Click to expand...

Firstly I have missed somewhere why the dog can't come to your room, why you have go to the kitchen with it ? Well its absurd you can't go on sleeping on the kitchen floor can you !

Anyway the readings, well 8>20 means you have 8.6. This is going nowhere, there no clear leader for either of you. I think this says you lack the capacity to handle this and you and the dog can't 'become one' as it were. Hex 8 is about uniting, interesting to get it re a dog. But thinking about it I think a good relation with a dog does mean a degree of uniting, sometimes as if you are of one mind, one reason why dogs are so companiable. But its like you and this dog don't/can't unite so it would be like trying to live with a person you can't just can't merge with sufficiently to have any sense of heading in the same direction...and you do want this dog to head in the direction you want it to...

By bringing the dog back I assume you mean taking it back to the pound....its certainly a very literal answer ! 9.2 refers to an animal being led back by a rope. This seems a reasonable option except I'm wondering if there would be any difficulty with the people at the pound in returning him. I say that because of 9.3. I think the 20 in both answers simply refers to you contemplating this situation. Hmm and maybe 9.3 refers to some underlying mismatch/conflict here between you that could be overcome.

Hilary once told an anecdote about 9.3 where she said she was stressing about buying a house one evening...cast 9.3 and later her husband said to her, when she was trying to offload onto him, that he didn't want her anxiety. Now I'm sure I have mangled that story but I relate it here because its interesting how it might be when someone does not want to engage with anothers angst. presumably you need to disengage from dogs angst ?

36.3 shows one getting to the heart of a problem and yet not being able to rectify things all at once (and 24 would be returning to ones equilibrium after finding the casue of the trouble) This almost suggests theres a central factor here you could address if you wanted to which actually contradicts my earlier interpretations and makes me wonder if the 8.6 is not saying you can't do this but boy you really need to get your head together and get organised about how you treat this dog..like maybe you need some help in retraining, how you handle it etc.

Also hex 20 doesn't counsel immediate action so I do think theres somethting for you to think about here before acting.

36.3 says once you grasp the main trouble here, once you actually figure what the problem is you suceed. Not overnight, but you do succed.

I think I'd suggest you sit and think long and hard about all the little things that affect this dogs behaviour. I'm thinking of hex 9 and 20. Sometimes what we see as a big problem may be down to a few smaller components. Try to think laterally. You have put his distress down to 'seperation anxiety'...maybe its not that maybe its something else...like he doesn't like being alone with other dog...or even something you haven't thought of..


Hmm I started out thinking this was definatley 'take him back' but the 36.3 makes me think you should think a bit longer about this perhaps, and the hex 20 you got twice also gives advice to have a really good look to see whats happening here before acting. This means not panicking and just getting yourself a bit of distance in order to think straight.


Admittedly it must be pretty hard to think when you spend the nights on the kitchen floor !


Apologies for changing mind mid post

Its peculiar how many questions we have had here latley on whether people should keep their animals or not....strange the sudden increase in these kinds of questions

Ah is this dog related to these readings ? http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=13052

it would be interesting if they are linked

Ok, so the whole story.

The dog I was planning to adopt was Tequila, but during the preliminary procedure for the adoption, the kennel assistant who help me made me aware of another dog who was in greater need to find a home, a 12 years old bitch: Delhi.
Delhi has spent 11 years of her life in that kennel, and since a while she was living in the same box with another dog, Ardik. During the following three weeks I went to the kennel several times to make friends with Delhi while she was recovering from surgery (they had to remove her spleen). When she was ready to come home, the assistant suggested that taking also Ardik would have been the best thing to do. So I took both dogs, just to find out that it was way beyond my capability to deal with that situation.

The dogs don't look like best friends to me. Delhi want to have her quiet and Ardik is very hectic and nervous. They stay mainly on the veranda and in the kitchen because in the house lives also Poppa, a 10 years old cat. Cat and dogs didn't meet yet, and by the reactions of the dogs to her scent it's clear that it is something to be done with caution.

Anyway, some hours ago I had a breakdown and called the kennel telling that I wanted to bring the dogs back. Both of them. When I phoned I was really down the drain. They said that tomorrow somebody will come to take them back home.

In the meantime my trust in life has re-emerged and I feel that I can try to go on with Delhi, hoping she doesn't want to harm Poppa.

I know, I seem to be a lunatic who doesn't know what she wants, what she can or cannot do, and it's probably so. This is a very intense and painful experience I had in a long while.

lets get this clear

delhi has been in the kennel 11 yrs and is the quiet or rowdy one?
ardik is his or her friend? also 11 yrs on kennel?

how on earth can they be expected to adapt to a new environment
after all that time AND in an apartment?
Poppa is old and has always lived with you?

i was thinking the 2 dogs dont get along as you say
the 8 uniting is about the rapport between the dogs?

I originally said dog would be returned to you
but people say 24 return to yourself and sanity?

seems this has played out - you asked for input and mulled it
over 36. line 3 you came to a rational decision and everyhting
returns the status quo (24) better luck next time - keep us
informed

I think it would be fine keeping Delhi. Seems like its quite a peaceful dog, you were sort of pressured into taking ardik, so you shouldn't feel guilty about taking her back I don't think. Let us know what you end up doing.

First of all I have to say that right now I feel I lost my trust in the I Ching.
I've been reading back in my journal the whole evolution of this adoption and there are a few readings that seems to be truly misleading to me. I know that more likely it's me not being able to understand them, but right now I feel mad ad the I Ching for being so cryptic.

It's a long story, but I would really like your feedback to understand where did I go wrong.

My first question, about a month ago, has been:
"Concerning getting a dog" (at that time I was thinking about adopting Tequila)
41> 6.5 >61
I find it baffling because I gather it means one has to renounce his desires, to reduce things, and this is coherent with the outcome. But then the 6.5 is very auspicious, while hex 61 announces difficulties in establishing relationships. It fits quite well with what happened, since Tequila was not the adopted dog in the end, but why 6.5 then?


When I knew that Delhi and Ardik were the dogs suggested for adoption I asked:
What is my fortune in bringing Delhi and Ardik home?
4> 9.2 >23
When I re-read this I want to bang my head against a wall. How I could have been so blind? Hex 4 tells me to put a lid on the situation, tells me I don't know what I'm doing, but then 9.2 seems to tell me I'm mature enough to sustain the dwelling. Why? Why? It was not true! I was in a total emotional chaos! Hex 23 is collapse, which is exactly what happened. But again, why then the 9.2? I felt really misled by this changing line. Or did I misinterpret it?

Sometime later I asked:
Is it ok to take Delhi and Ardik?
4> 9.2 6.5 >20
Read now the hexes seem to be quite clear but this 9.5 that states that all will go well isn't it misleading? It didn't go well at all.

Some days later I asked:
How will my life evolve with the dogs?
8> 6.1 9.5 >24
I gather it means to help each other and to unite. I cannot relate the changing lines to anything that happened, but right now I'm actually really in a 20ish situation, looking, looking, trying to understand.

After some days that the dogs where with me and I was feeling unhappy, I asked:
Should I keep the dogs?
6> 6.1 >10

I then asked:
Should I give the dogs back?
27> 6. 2 6.3 9.6 >11

What if I keep the dogs?
35> 9.4 9.6 >2

WHAT HAPPENED
Both the dogs went back to the pound. The management wouldn't let me keep only Delhi. They told me that they have been together almost all of their life and they only have each other. To separate them would be very painful.
Looking back I can see that I was very scared, confused, naive and stupid and didn't really let them into my life because I was afraid the cat would suffer.

Poppa is 10 years old and lives with me since two years. She lost her owner to a sickness and nobody wanted to take care of her, but I took her with lots of joy. During Delhi and Ardik's stay she showed she was under a lot of stress.

The last few days I allowed the dogs more into my life and now I cannot stop crying about them. I would like them back in a situation that makes it possible and enjoyable for everybody involved, like living in a different kind of place and having a different state of mind. I feel I messed everything up.

My very last question:
What do I need to understand about the experience with Delhi and Ardik?
53> 9.3 6.4 9.6 >45
Right now I'm at odds with the I Ching.

I would like hearing from you. Thanks to everybody.

what are these crazy castings??

they make no sense to me is it yarrow or something?

Ok, I write them in a different way:

4>20 changing lines 9.2 6.5
8>24 changing lines 6.1 9.5
6>10 changing line 6.1
27>11 changing lines 6.2 6.3 9.6
35>2 changing lines 9.4 9.6
53>45 changing lines 9.3 6.4 9.6

Sorry, here I try again:

41>61 changing line 6.5
4> 23 changing line 9.2
4>20 changing lines 9.2 6.5
8>24 changing lines 6.1 9.5
6>10 changing line 6.1
27>11 changing lines 6.2 6.3 9.6
35>2 changing lines 9.4 9.6
53>45 changing lines 9.3 6.4 9.6

For some reason the spaces between numbers disappear and the changing lines are difficult to read. So sorry!

emiliana2010 said:

Sorry, here I try again:

41>61 changing line 6.5
4> 23 changing line 9.2
4>20 changing lines 9.2 6.5
8>24 changing lines 6.1 9.5
6>10 changing line 6.1
27>11 changing lines 6.2 6.3 9.6
35>2 changing lines 9.4 9.6
53>45 changing lines 9.3 6.4 9.6

Click to expand...

usually people write itlike this

41.5>61
4.2>23
4.2.5>20

and so on. I think Hopex is puzzled because you are writing in the 9s and 6s ,like you are writing 41 6 in the 5th place where all people usually do is indicate the 5th line is changing so it would be 41.5>61


Re your disapointment withthe readings...I got lost somewhere in the plot as I'm not good at following plots but my overall impression is you need to get grounded first before anything...sounds like you asked alot of questions, lost your bearings, lost your sense of direction, lost connection to everyday common sense. 8.6 ?


In my own readings I recently noticed how easy it is for me to go so far wrong in interpreting when I have a strong wish one way or another, which I don't think you did here...but I sort of get the impression you forgot to check in with yourself. You gave all the power to the concept of the I Ching...it was all head stuff and this ties in closely with panic attacks IMO.

I feel panic attacks are likley when you have spun off so far in outer headspace/fretting/envisioning and so on, your feet aren't even touching the ground and I'd recommend only from personal experience that consulting Yi alot inthe midst of panick attacks isn't helpful

I also think too many questions about the same topic in a short space of time inevitably leads to just getting lost and confused.

Yi is not a substitute for making your own decisions and I think here, if you were already panicky you may have been better making decisions on what your senses told you. Did you actually even need Yi for these choices ? Wouldn't a good part of choosing a pet be the sheer attraction to it, how it feels, how you connect with each other...even how your eye contact feels, the practicalities

So I'd say don't lose faith in Yi but rather look to how much faith you lacked in yourself and your decision making processess that placed all these choices sort of 'out there' in space with Yi rather than beginning with your feet on the ground next to the dogs feet if you get my drift.

Thats just an impression and I may be making erroneous assumptions because obviously i don' t know much about you or the situation so I'm just giving my thoughts so far

hey emiliana! lei e italiana? scrivi bene l'inglese
so now i get it
hey its life - i got a puppy once when i was a student
I only rented a room and he pee'd all over my bed but
i am sure he knew i loved him. I gave him to the wholefood
shop where i bought food everyday, The lady was delighted
and he was chasing sprouts round the shop - everything will
work out

you sound sensitive and responsible - i'd love a dog but i need
to know i can do right by it. I hope to one day and not too far
off - so i hope you can too

Hopex, peacefulliving and Trojan thank you so much for your comments. What you write Trojan sounds very true. I understand I have to relate to the I Ching in a different way. Right now I cannot stop crying for having failed so miserably in understanding and following it's advise, I cannot stop crying thinking that with some more courage and persistence I could have succeeded in living harmoniously with cat, dogs and neighbors.

emiliana2010 said:

Hopex, peacefulliving and Trojan thank you so much for your comments. What you write Trojan sounds very true. I understand I have to relate to the I Ching in a different way. Right now I cannot stop crying for having failed so miserably in understanding and following it's advise, I cannot stop crying thinking that with some more courage and persistence I could have succeeded in living harmoniously with cat, dogs and neighbors.

Click to expand...

Eh ? you can't be crying about this because it would be like crying becasue you are a human being. You attempted something you had to reverse on thats all. No harms been done, no harm was ever intended. It ain't easy being a human bean

I really would not see this a failure just an experiment.

Whilst 36.3 suggested to me there was a central issue to address I have to say just looking at the situation from a common sense human bean POV it all seemed pretty impossible to contend with. Maybe the 36.3 referred to somehting else.

So rather than a failure you should see it as a successful experiment. You tried something, you employed the means you had at the time, like a cook or a scientist trying to make something , trying to work something out. The means you employed didn't bring the envisaged outcome but the outcome is not bad,,,noone was hurt here except you. The whole of life is just one big experiment isn't it with at least half of them not producing envisaged results but something else altogether. Maybe this the natural process of evolution

May I humbly suggest that if all this has made you cry, have panic attacks and so on that it is you you need to care for a little more rather than more animals. Sounds like you may be a bit depressed ?

Even after years of consulting Yi I and probably most others still misinterpret readings sometimes for one reason or another. My latest reason was being simply unable to countenance one particular possibility and so I couldn't even see it in the readings

I'd pretty much stick to what i said about asking lots of questions when one is a bit down, panicky etc doesn't help... some sort of steady physical stuff, i dunno, like walking, gardening, painting the walls etc is better medicine for panicky feelings/depression IMO than a mega session with Yi but it hardly makes anyone a failure if they ask lots of questions, its not wrong...I only meant it can obsure things rather than clarify in some mind states

Please try to think about all the benefit you have bought to animals over the years, don't see it that you have failed

Talking of caring for your self rather than more dogs I have curious repetetive dreams where my (deceased) dog represents my needs. I dream the dog is thirsty and i wake up with great thirst. I dream the dog needs to urinate and wake up and I need to. I dream the dog needs a walk, I need some exersize.

Seems my subconcious at least definately places my physical self as an animal whose needs must be catered for.

I was just wondering if all this that has happened to you with the dogs could represent some part of your own story. If you wrote it it like a story, wrote down how it all happened could it show anything of your own processes about how you care for yourself ? You went to extraordinary lengths to keep everyone happy here didn't you. You slept on the kitchen floor to keep everyone happy ! To keep the dogs happy and the neighbours happy you slept on the kitchen floor and it was impossible.

Do you think in other parts of your life you try to keep others happy at great cost to yourself, even great discomfort, even when its not possible. And then when its shown to be not possible you feel a failure, that its all your fault ? Thats a classic cause of depression and anxiety


Hey I don't mean to psychoanalyse here its just a thought, it may help to think of it all as a story not just something you did wrong. Afterall you bought it here so its something we can all think about. Its all food for thought

Trojan, I had to give a good look at what I do with the I Ching: I try to squeeze out of them the answer I would like to receive. So if an answer is not to my liking, I try to get to the wanted result from a different angle, and keep pestering the I with all sort of questions and counter-questions.
Now I know that's not the way to go.
For whatever issue, just ONE (1) question. If I don't get the answer I'll have to be with it, ponder over it, wait, meditate over it till I get it. I think the I will never give an answer I cannot understand.

Trojan, thank you so much for helping me, for pepping me up. I feel a wound deeply buried in me has come to the fore thanks to the presence of Delhi and Ardik in my life. Something related to being rescued, to rescue... and fail.