As shared in a couple of past threads, the last few months of 2011 have shown a constant deterioration of my physical conditions. Nothing serious, just various unpleasant symptoms and a significantly worse shape than I used to have. I have asked the Yi to give me insight on this situation, and received 6.4 > 59 in response.

One cannot win this conflict.
Returning immediately changes one's fate.
Persisting peacefully brings good fortune.

As usual I have mulled over this casting, and gone through different books, without finding enlightenment. Does anyone have any experience of this line? Is it suggesting that I simply accept the current situation since I can't change it? Is it pointing at an inner conflict? How to interpret 59 in this picture?

Thanks as always :bows:

Sorry to hear that Cris. Don't give up. I don't think the Yi is saying that. I don't know what you have been doing to battle this condition, but it sounds like the Yi is saying your approach isn't right. You may already have a gut feeling that your approach isn't correct. That whatever you are doing to combat this condition is not the best, and that you may need to change your approach. I don't have any experience with the line, but this is what jumped out at me when I read it.

Is it possible you are unknowingly doing something to aggravate your condition? Maybe something you thought was helping it even?

Hi Cris,
I haven't read yyour previous threads yet but in the case of anything medical, professional medical help should be sought. That said (my disclaimer ), I'll have a go at translating for you.

Wilhelm’s 6
THE JUDGMENT
CONFLICT. You are sincere
And are being obstructed.
A cautious halt halfway brings good fortune.
Going through to the end brings misfortune.
It furthers one to see the great man.
It does not further one to cross the great water.

Do not carry on as you are, stop and check the situation?
I think the great man may be a doctor? There is something causing obstruction... your body is being obstructed from functioning as it should?

Nine in the fourth place means:
One cannot engage in conflict.
one turns back and submits to fate,
Changes one’s attitude,
And finds peace in perseverance.
Good fortune.

You do not feel content with the situation and would like to improve it through conflict... you want to combat the cause?
The very word conflict means something does not agree with you. Maybe you have developed a dietary allergy which once identified will just have to be accepted?

59 from LiSe is

A flood destroys all the old structures, paving the way for a new, fresh and as yet clean life, open for new possibilities.
For a life with an open gateway to the cosmos, man’s mind needs deluges. Dissolving all the rigid structures, like opinions, prejudices, ties, obligations. They all give a feeling of security, but they restrict, narrow down, reduce, and take away the essential deep security of universal openness.
Having to save one’s life puts many other things back in the place where they belong, often even completely out of sight.

Maybe Yi is suggesting a detox and plenty of water as a solution?

I may be miles out here and still say you should see a doctor if you are genuinely worried.
I hope you manage to sort it out.

L

Thank you DWF for your kind concern. The situation is being quite erratic recently, so I have no idea how to improve it If I only knew what the Yi says I should return to to change my fate

Thank you Loulisnowdrop for your insight. You give very interesting hints I too have thought a doctor could be in order - hard to find though, considering the seemingly unrelated symptoms I've had. And yes, I tend to think in terms of "fighting" this situation, which I sense does not help. An allergy? Could well be... and water, absolutely, I'll give it a try.

Hex 59... I'm not too familiar with it, but in was wondering if it could possibly mean that these problems will disperse? (I know, I know, wishful thinking... and yet again the mechanistic view of the resulting hexagram...)

Another thought on 59... maybe something IS dispersing? Like a vitamin deficiency or something? Just a thought but often the relating hexagram gives context or reason for the situation rather than describing the future. Not always though.

Anyway, not a translation, but some advice... if you make a note of your symptoms and include the frequency of them, it might help if you visit the doctor. A food diary may not be a bad idea too

Cris, I wonder if the IC is giving you an idea of the conflict going on in your body. Whatever is not working well. It sounds like one part of your body is trying to destroy the other part, but it won't because although it would win, it is not right to do this. These parts need to get along peacefully. It seems like the answer would be to get the side that is waging war to stop fighting and go back to being peaceful. Could be an allergy, could be that there is some positive feedback mechanism here and your bodies natural response is just making things worse for you now. Welcome to PM me about it too. I am experienced with ambiguous health problems and figuring out what is causing them. Have dealt with my fair share.

cris said:

As shared in a couple of past threads, the last few months of 2011 have shown a constant deterioration of my physical conditions. Nothing serious, just various unpleasant symptoms and a significantly worse shape than I used to have. I have asked the Yi to give me insight on this situation, and received 6.4 > 59 in response.

One cannot win this conflict.
Returning immediately changes one's fate.
Persisting peacefully brings good fortune.

As usual I have mulled over this casting, and gone through different books, without finding enlightenment. Does anyone have any experience of this line? Is it suggesting that I simply accept the current situation since I can't change it? Is it pointing at an inner conflict? How to interpret 59 in this picture?

Thanks as always :bows:

Click to expand...

Well yes I think 6.4 does counsel acceptance in the sense that you may be setting up a whole resistance pattern thing in viewing this set of symtoms as 'the enemy' to conquer. It doesn't look like the way to go

Having no idea what the problem is...its hard for me not to say anything stupid ... but one meaning I take from 6.4 is to rest and relax over this....stop searching for ways to combat ? Make peace with the symptoms and also make peace with how the symptoms impact on your life and routines...ie if they make you have to rest or withdraw or change the way you live have some acceptance of that for now. Acceptance here would seem more helpful than the 'tackling' kind of mentality. Its a very clear answer.

Whats nice about the answer is i think you get to have a break from tackling the symptoms...you can let it go for now (hex 59)

I read some book by Stephen Levine who was working spiritually with very ill people and often less resistance to pain, even going willingly into the pain also changed the perception of the pain.


There are times to combat and to to take a very proactive approach to ones ailments...but frankly this doesn't seem to be one of them. Let those symptoms be a bit...obviously you'll do what you can in terms of pain relief but for now try to distance yourself (59) from the 'these symptoms are my adversary I must tackle" approach

Yes, well said Trojan. The first thing I thought of when I read this post was Ayurveda. Ayurvedic principles are based on just good common sense I had some health issues a while back, and tried just a simple ayurvedic tea and spice blend, and I noticed a dramatic difference immediately. It can really help get things balanced. And, although there are tons of ayurvedic herbs, a lot of it is really dietary. Something definitely worth looking into. Just doing something in line with supporting your health and natural harmony would be good here. Like rather than doing something negative to this condition just do positive things for your health. Don't focus on the disease, focus on being happy and healthy.

Yes...and I'm wondering if its worth paying particular attention to how the symptoms change how you live your life ...because in that sense they could even be helping you...to show you where you need to make changes in in your life perhaps in terms of pace...or kinds of interests or activities ?

Please give me insight on this situation.
6.4 > 59

Like your cat avatar that is butting against a wall, you perhaps are butting against the glass ceiling, and the stress and frustration is harming your health. With a little gender change, my beloved Legge is as good as anybody on 6.4: The fourth NINE, undivided, shows its subject unequal to the contention. She returns to (the study of Heaven's) ordinances, changes (her wish to contend), and rests in being firm and correct. There will be good fortune. See, good fortune. As a wise aunt once told me, "All our problems would be solved if only we would change our ways." And then you get hexagram 59, Dispersal. Throw your salt over your shoulder instead of on your food. Delegate more to reduce your stress on the job. Do take a minimal dose of B6 daily to help prevent -- didn't your doctor call it sand? And I'll stop harping on my message

Thanks so much DWF, LSD, Trojan and Tom for the precious insights you have provided. I need some time to mull over it before responding.

:bows:

Yer welkum... Hope it resolves shortly. Here is some info that you may find useful while mulling things over. Sounds like it might be related to a vata imbalance. Anything erratic or changeable can be, and vata leads the other doshas, so if you have that functioning well, kapha and pitta usually follow suit. Or maybe a pitta deficiency. Check out vata, pitta, kapha, the 3 doshas in ayurvedic medicine. Maybe something will jump out at you, and it couldn't hurt..The reason this jumped out at me is because 6.4 talks about working in harmony, and ayurvedic medicine is all about harmonizing the doshas, and 59 talks about a deluge drowning out fire. Fire and water are principles in ayurvedic and Chinese medicine, so maybe you need to balance out your fire and water (fire is related to pitta). It would at least give you a different perspective... here are a few links.
Best wishes,
DWF

http://www.whatsyourdosha.com/article-3_doshas.html

http://www.ayush.com/About-Ayush-Herbs/what-is-ayurveda.aspx

http://www.holisticonline.com/ayurveda/ayv-vata-signs-of-imbalance.htm

The first 3 - 4 lines of your post got me totally thinking if it was Chinese I was reading and the only (HUGE) image I could envision on my mind was pitta bread ... I may well have a deficiency there!

Joking aside... thanks a lot for the info! I truly appreciate you taking the time to dig it out for me
I'll check the links out and let you know!

:bows:

sort answer - fried brain here

Looking at the hex 6 and 59 two things came out.
a) immune system
b) homeostasis ( in a broader way tho)

actually fever and sweating was the first think I "saw"

59 could mean many thing here. Try to find a 59 thread where Bradford talks about the high amount of energy the 59 process needs. it the big difference between 40 and 59 , the way i understand it.

I can give a recent example of what Trojan is suggesting in my life. I had nerve pain in my face and it radiated to various places -- rather illusive in one respect but so intense as well. I was taking various over the counter medications and gradually they failed to control the pain. As there were all kinds of issues afoot in my life it was VERY bad timing. Looking for work, noisy neighbours, a child who was having a rough time; bad weather, my mother laying a guilt trip on me about her "elder care" blah, blah, blah. I was well over the top and nothing getting any better.

The pain was so bad I couldn't eat or sleep. I was holding warm water in my mouth to help assauge the symptoms, then falling asleep and swallowing the water -- at which time the pain would erupt again.

I started thinking what on earth this water could be doing that was so magical???? It made no sense. I was having dinner with my two daughters one evening and couldn't eat. They got so concerned they offered to go with me to the all-night surgery. So off we went. The nurse there could find nothing wrong, could see nothing at all. She said the amount of medication I was taking was really minimal for nerve pain and gave me a schedule to take three times as much! She said there was NO reason warm water would have changed the situation and suggested I load up on the medication and get some sleep.

I was SO RELIEVED. I hadn't realised how terribly tense the whole thing had made me. I walked out of the door of the all-night surgery and realised the pain was gone. I went home and ate a meal, slept the whole night. In the morning there was a twinge and I quickly took the large dose of medicines. The pain left and has never been back. I had loaded all of my worries into the nerves in my face. No real reason. Those nerves were apparently vulnerable after having had a sinus infection earlier in the Winter -- so i stored all the tension there.

Somatic symptoms are SO real. You are sure you are truly ill. And battling them, accepting them as a fact, only makes them worse. Whereas; checking them out and finding they have no basis and releasing them -- releases them.

It could very well be stress induced. An imbalance in your doshas is often stress induced, with vata, the stress dosha, leading, and if there is a fight here between X and Y, the part starting it could be your mind. I'm not suggesting you might be imagining your symptoms or they are not real. What I'm suggesting is that stress might be the real villain here, and could be antagonizing things. Stress can affect the chemical makeup in your body, raising cortisol, adrenaline, insulin even, and throwing everything off like a string of dominos. Anemos and I both mentioned immune response and homeostasis, and I think LSD may have mentioned allergies as well. These can also be related to stress, and I know from experience that stress can bring on allergies. Didn't have them for years, and after a stressful period, they came back with a vengeance. There are clearly parallels between everyones posts here, and I think the one thing that we would all agree on, even without the reading, is that stress can cause or amplify pain or decrease the expression of health. When I have a stressful time, I always take something now to keep it in check so it doesn't throw things off. I use herbal products like kava, valerian, or an ayurvedic stress formula. I really load up on it! Adaptogens are great too, like ashwagandha... I find it much easier to continue working with the herbal help, and it seems to circumvent the stress related symptoms I usually get. I use a mantra to help get my mind sending out peaceful energy to my body. I just repeat it a dozen times or so... "It's easy for me to be balanced and impartial," and sometimes I imagine white light washing over me and pulling the stress down into the ground. I know you need some time to mull this all over, but I thought this was a good way to tie together some of the common themes in the previous posts. . And here are a few comics that I think will give you a laugh, and a very funny ferret picture. Laughter really is the best medicine.

Somatic symptoms hurt just as much as any others. As much as being bashed with a hammer. But the trigger for them is anxiety. Get rid of the anxiety and the symptoms leave. That the message of my story anyway. Once I knew I had a way to combat the pain [stronger medicine] and I knew I had no obvious illness -- the pain was gone and I recovered.

My medicine of choice normally is usually acupuncture. And even though my pain disappeared after the late night visit to the GP, I headed straight for the acupuncturist a couple days later -- she unfortunately had been on holiday the whole time my facial nerves were going mad. But once she was back in town I was at her door, getting myself re-centered.

I've had great results with acupuncture too. It really helped when I was having problems with muscle tension and back pain. I tend to be very Yin deficient, so I am constantly doing something to keep a balance, and have a tendency toward stress related somatic symptoms. And somatic symptoms can definitely be the pits too. And frustrating, because they are often, well at least for me, variable and tend to move around. One day it's neck tension, the next a headache, the next digestion is off... Get's very annoying.