Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
Well, one has to take it in some way. And if one gets ans answer like
14.6
He is blessed by heaven.
Good fortune.
Nothing that does not further.
it may be actually saying: Yes,only heavens can help you...
when you receive something vague like "blessings form heaven, there is nothing that would not further" for asking something that you know quite a few big changes would have to prelude, what to make out of an veery optimistic answer in such an case?
Not necessarily IMO. There are times I think one gets the equivalent of gibberish from Yi if one has crossed the threshold of asking repetitive questions it stops answering in any intelligible way. It warns of this clearly in hexagram 4
From Wilhelm transaltion
"....
It is not I who seek the young fool
The young fool seeks me
At the first oracle I inform him.
If he asks two or three times it is importunity.
If he importunes I give him no information.
Perseverance furthers."
I have personally found it definateley means what it says here.
So if its a question you have already put to Yi many times, maybe a different format but fundamentally the same question, its possible you won't be answered and will get 'empty' answers.
Is that really possible - to get "empty" answers...?
For instance, I got 24.4 only yesterday, asking about the bill I was waiting to get, wondered how big/worrying it will be and it came today, smaller then I thought, actually...could not make out that one at all - maybe my mind was getting back to it and i will address the issue maybe again or I should just stay away from asking such questions...I prefer to ask different things that feel more important to me in any case.
You said "Well one has to take it in some way...". Yi says in hex 4 it does stop answering. Now of course as long as we cast coins and so on we will always get an answer, there will be a hexagram with lines moving (or not) but that doesn't mean Yi is still answering. You can't make it answer.
Ouch, picking at an Oracle...I think we are on good terms...I hope
But this is a new argument for me, suggesting that an oracle can give up the cooperation with you? That`s not fair...I mean...how can we be sure when that is the case? Hazy answers?
People differ on whether they think Yi stops answering....(although Yi speaking of itself says it does ) but many people tend to know when they have stopped being answered...when they can't hear anymore, and I think that is generally after asking the same question, in differing formats many many times.
I think Yi has been very kind to me in that regard. At worse, it gives me the answer that boils down to the same if I ask about one thing over again. I got a few "rude" answers, but only a few and not hex 4 in that sense as an exclusive answer for an overly eager seeker. Hex 4 I get whenmy head is in a lot of confusion, btw.
Of course this may not be with regard to a question you have asked many many times ?
In this particular case, i asked a general type of question, what will happen with a certain aspect of my life...so I am being patted on the head here perhaps but as ungrateful kid that I am, it comforts me only so much...
It may just be an answer that seems impossible to you ? But you may be taking the 14.6 as indicating a particular precise outcome that you consider fortunate and Yi may be referring to something else altogether. ....well, that may be, but it is a situation where one cant go to B without achieving A because B just can`t be complete without it...so only heavens can help.
So am I to gather that if the answer is too aloof or just not concrete enough, Yi is giving an "empty" answer?
And I don`t think it is like a wishing well, more like an insight into current state of affairs and in my case, poor thing has nothing to react to as it needs an action for the reaction.
Ouch, picking at an Oracle...I think we are on good terms...I hope
But this is a new argument for me, suggesting that an oracle can give up the cooperation with you? That`s not fair...I mean...how can we be sure when that is the case? Hazy answers?
Now just got to ask Oracle till it answers me with the same
:bows:
Not necessarily IMO. There are times I think one gets the equivalent of gibberish from Yi if one has crossed the threshold of asking repetitive questions it stops answering in any intelligible way. It warns of this clearly in hexagram 4
From Wilhelm translation
"....
It is not I who seek the young fool
The young fool seeks me
At the first oracle I inform him.
If he asks two or three times it is importunity.
If he importunes I give him no information.
Perseverance furthers."
.
For one, 14.6 does not say that everything will go your way or as you wish, it speaks of 'heaven's blessings'. That there alone, comes with a bunch of big questionmarks: are heaven's blessings like earthly blessings? do they work the same way, do they yield similar results, or follow the same rules?
Hi hihihi...having a headache makes me seem more nuttier then usual then...good to know.................. you aren't really going to do that are you?
I didn't say or mean that if an answer were hard to understand it always means its an 'empty answer'. You misunderstood me. I was saying sometimes it can be an empty answer if one had asked the same thing many times.
Why is that new You have seen hexagram 4 before haven't you. IMO of course it can cease answering you, it isn't your slave. As to how you can tell when its not answering....well its up to the individual and how they sense it. Some people may never sense it because it hasn't happened to them. Some people may just not believe it ever happens. I personally do think it happens and I think its important to learn to recognise it. Generally I know when I've got to question overload and am lost because the answers completely lose coherence and clarity or are infact addressing my state of mind in asking. That is quite common and I usually recognise a bit later on.
Its completely up to you what you want to think about it, or if you believe its possible Yi ever doesn't answer.( But what do you really think what I quoted from Hexagram 4 was all about ? ) You asked for peoples opinions about an answer that really made no sense to you. At least I thought thats what you were asking. I gave one idea of what may be happening. I didn't say it was happening with you in this instance...as I don't know that. It was just a suggestion, take it or leave it. Makes no difference to me what you believe or what you think is 'fair'.
You seem to have the strange idea of what is said in hex 4 is some kind of punishment...but it isn't, its just communication breaks down when you stop hearing and keep asking.
If you were sitting in a car with someone and asked them the same question on a 100 mile journey over and over and over again even though they had answered you as best they could 50 times already and they couldn't get away from you I think at some point they may start talking gibberish while doing this Yi isn't quite like a person in a car but nevertheless there can come a point where answers get very random and unintelligible through repetitive questioning IMO....thats how Yi does not answering
However if you don't think that was what was happening with this answer thats fine...as I said it was just a suggestion.
But Yi isn't a comfort blanket thats always going to make you feel better. Sometimes it pushes you back on yourself. Each person will experience that 'pushing back' differently or maybe not at all. Its a very individual relationship we all have with Yi.
I think each person comes to know through their own instinct when Yi has taken the phone off the hook.
Sometimes one can ask many questions , same topic...phone stays on hook...its not like a rule laid down by someone. But it is is an energetic exchange I believe and one can't do with it just as one wants.
It has dignity you know
LOL
By "exclusive" I meant that I don`t think one only gets it when asking too much. If that was so, it would certainly simplify things and there would be no need for "empty" readings then, right? As if one asked too much, would receive hex 4 automatically.
I don`t think I have ever seen that phrasing "empty reading" and it should be given some thought.
So far, my reasoning was "Well, if I don`t understand this answer it is because my knowledge is not wast enough or I am unable to grasp it" (due to my emotional state mostly)..provided I was not asking too much about it without anything different happening to the situation etc..
But I have noticed that the answer that is less of a "quality" is the one gotten when asking while upset or depressed or similar. In those cases I would get gloomy answers, once even of the idea "well, you got stuck with it, so learn to deal" (can`t remember the hex, last line).
So in that light I wondered about those uplifting positiveness of soothing aloofness...makes me go and it may be a dangerous way to go about it---not that I had too many... but i wish I have gotten hex 4 unchanged rather then "empty reading", you now.
In that sense, perhaps it is a punishment, not hex 4.
But is is a very good point, heavens blessings, I would think it would mean that I will get supported opulently but good fortune in my endeavors, something in that sense..to be optimistic...don`t really have the clear idea what was meant...but what heavens had planed, that may be the whole different thing, thanks for pointing that out to me.
...
But is is a very good point, heavens blessings, I would think it would mean that I will get supported opulently but good fortune in my endeavors, something in that sense..to be optimistic...but what heavens had planed, that may be the whole different thing, thanks for point that out to me.
...people read similar omens in the flight of crows, ravens and magpies, and in rodents and cats crossing one's path .Jiao is so used in Ode 215.1 ...
Crosswise fly the mulberry birds
his Lordship will be blessed by heaven.
Rutt, page 308
... Waley, however, taking jiao as onomatopoeic, thought the birds in the Ode were chirruping rather than flying.
Rutt, page 308
:bows:You won't have seen the phrase 'empty reading' before because its mine, I made it up
its exclusive to moi
I thought it might be so
I think we can make answers far too temporary....some of them can last for years and years
People can get intimidated by the accuracy of the answer and dare not consult again - I know of such case
I think you are saying soothing answers that sometimes may be what I call 'empty answers' are dangerous to our emotions ? I agree its a trap in that it can be a form of self delusion. However I don't know if you have ever had 'empty answers' so I think if the idea of that troubles you you could dismiss it for now . I don't think we were ever meant to be as dependent on the I Ching as many of us are...so I've come to actually value the sense of the empty answer. i take it as a signal its time for me to do it on my own...to grapple with existing answers on my own. Sometimes this is very refreshing.
I think less is more. Easier said then done for us westerners, perhaps. I do believe I had empty answers, yes and dismissive ones, as explained. Only a few, but I remember stings well.
re gloomy answers that appear to be taking you in a downward spiral....yes I think thats part of learning when to stop asking for a while....otherwise you might drive yourself mad....and as you say often it is just showing your attitude . This is often the case with 47 for example
So now you can understand how gloomy I can get but promising not - I know the origins of my gloom.
Hi, Dragona:
I believe that, given that the only line that moves in H.14 is the highest, it means that you have received a Heavenly Blessig, which is lucky and good enough. I don't believe that the prognostication lis so superlatively good as W/B says.
Maybe you don't know what's the blessing. But the resolution depends on what will you do, how will you behave.
Sometimes usual translations obscures what is clear in the text for somebody who knows how to read it. And that person can be only yourself.
Of course, we can read it as only whit the help of haven can we attain our goals, but I believe that if there is an advice for us, it only can be: TRUST IN THE GRACE OF HEAVEN, we will feel lucky and it will result profitable.
If we have received the grace of heaven it will function even if we don't trust in it. But if we don't trust in it, and our goals look like a little IMPOSSIBLE, we will do nothing for attaining it which will not help us too much.
All the best,
Charly
I hope you could shed some light on this follow up as well...made sense for me to ask:
What can I do to obtain 14.6? Hex 18.2<52
Suffice to say, I don`t really understand except that one should not be too pushy with corrections. Unless we take it literally, since I do live with my ill mother and have no freedom as she is dependable and nerve wrecking that has already started to take a tole on my life. (some nerves reactions led to a certain breakup I regret of still).
many thanks, d.
Well, one has to take it in some way. And if one gets ans answer like
14.6
He is blessed by heaven.
Good fortune.
Nothing that does not further.
it may be actually saying: Yes,only heavens can help you...
What she says here, I think it helps a lot. You would think that everyone should always care for their parents because that is what they did for us, and it is just what people do, but sometimes it is unhealthy for both sides. I am not sure about your situation.Do not answer to demands which go against your sense of righteousness, beauty or love, even if they are commonly accepted as being good and nice. Many 'nice' gestures are demeaning for the recipient, taking away his strength or self-confidence.
Thanx, but that was the old me, being ironic.I love your reverse psychology comment. Could say that great possession requires freedom from it.
I did not want this tread to be about me, more about topic of answers that seem very favorable and yet aloof. There are a few lines like this one I got in The Book. Not that I mind getting them at all.
But asking "how" in this case made sense to me, hope charly answers with more.
Only progress that can be made here is one from my side, unfortunately.
I needed an inspiration as I am left alone in this and a motif would help me a great deal. What greater motif but love...so I don`t really know what the cast is talking about now...
I like to return to the question asked in such situations, and it was to clarify what i CAN do atm towards 14.6?
In the light of what was asked, I would say it has more to do with Courtney`s take...we can only try fix ourselves..
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).