60.1.2>8. Are the forum answers given a genuine contribution from the greatest sourc

For a long, long, long time I have submerged my mind into spiritual/meditative self-debated practices. Having moved far away from the only people with whom I could have had an articulated interchange, I find myself unable to understand or to be understood even amongst my immediate circle.

Now I find myself in the midst of crucial life changes and cannot discern the best turn for me to take, yet within all the profound interpretations I encountered in this forum regarding the Tao, and just common sense subjects, I resist the idea of putting such very delicate subject on line.

A part of me tells me I’ve been carrying haughtiness; I should integrate to the outer world and eliminate this false sense of pride or perhaps lack of trust…humbleness (?) I do miss the debates, interchanges,, etc., etc., that I used to have; but they were face to face with people. I cannot get rid of the idea that posting this online or having to pay someone to re-learn how to communicate, becomes something less than genuine (I am in a vicious circle).

In breaking a chunk of the ice, I inquired the I-Ching about this and got Hexagram 60.1.2>8. I think its message is excellent repertoire of my query. However I am not kin at this; could somebody kindly help for the interpretation? Should I go forward with it, or remain within the limits of my own mind in hope I’d find a kindred spirit.

Incidentally, thank you Trojan!

Regards,

Claroscuro http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/images/smilies/cool.gif

60.1.2>8. Are the forum answers given a genuine contribution from the greatest source or are they (perhaps unknowingly) dazzled by sententiousness in light of the Internet global spectacle?[/B]

Sorry half of this was cut out from message

What is the "internet global spectacle"? The internet is simply a thing that lets people come together. Getting together with people is a thing you have problems with right? (I do too, to some extent). But it's no "spectacle". You're essentially anonymous here, so just relax.

Limitation > Approach > Holding Together

think small scale > this will improve your situation, but the long-term results are unknown > it's most likely that you will find your place, whatever that is

There is a right-brain sense of pulling back in the casting. You need to take a step back and look at your worries and recognize that they might be unfounded. People aren't scary (well, sometimes they are), whatever you give to them you'll get back. If you're open and caring, you'll eventually find your place. Like in Hexagram 8, the waters flow upon the earth and eventually come to a settling place. In your case, this requires you observe what limits you place upon yourself, and approach enough places and people that you eventually find someone to confide in.

the "internet global spectacle"?

Hello mryou1,

It is truth, a right-brain having to move totally to a left-brain and feeling unable to cope with the back and forth switching; should choose one or the other.

Truth too, because of this, internally, cannot find the right place, whatever it is—except that, doing the right thing is right place to be.


I do not have a problem getting together with people, quite contraire, but within my own bias and everyone else’s, it seems to be a lack of true communication and/or values; so I find myself keeping the status quo as everyone else does which is easy to do with most colleges, associates, or acquaintances.

Anyway, this is the first time I post anything “on line” and I find it difficult. As you say, I am essentially anonymous, so it is as good as talking to myself, reading a book, or creating great fantasies in my head. Perhaps it is that I miss the people I grew up with, but I still do not understand how we do not even know our neighbor next door, but we have deep/ profound interactions with someone across the globe (this is when I feel I most be totally out of place). Perhaps everyone has to be anonymous to reach this level of intimacy amongst each other.


I thank you for your insight mryou1


Claroscuro

claroscuro said:

60.1.2>8. Are the forum answers given a genuine contribution from the greatest source or are they (perhaps unknowingly) dazzled by sententiousness in light of the Internet global spectacle?[/B]

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I don't understand the question. The forum answers come from a number of different people who have varying degrees of comprehension of the I Ching. Usually with any question, a number of different responses are possible, and this multi-faceted nature of the I Ching -- or the way it can be read on many levels -- has been often noted.

The querant may feel he has learned something when he reads the posts, but then again, perhaps he will come away with the feeling that there has been no connection and nothing of interest learned. All I can say is that sometimes a real connection is made, and sometimes we do indeed learn something of interest.

60.1.2>8. Are the forum answers given a genuine contribution from the greatest source or are they (perhaps unknowingly) dazzled by sententiousness in light of the Internet global spectacle?[/B]

Sorry half of this was cut out from message

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Ahem... Sounds like you are implying Clarity is loaded with sententious contributors. I can speak from personal experience though that I haven't found any sententious readers on Clarity, LOL. Some of us are a little eccentric, maybe even weird, with an even stranger thing for ferrets even:bag:, but there are too many contributors to lump them all together and label them as sententious or genuine or anything really. Asking the Yi, "What do I need to understand about Online Clarity?" or "What will be the consequence of joining Clarity?" might give you the information you need. This or that questions do not generally yield the clearest answers. Especially considering what you are asking about. The forum answers may not be either a "genuine contribution from the greatest source" or "dazzled by sententiousness in light of the Internet global spectacle..." Phew! That's a mouth full... "Brevity is the soul of wit," said the long winded ferret. (LOL, it was actually Polonius in Shakespeare's Hamlet ). Anyway, I think the Yi may be commenting here on your question or perhaps your participation on Clarity. Perhaps pointing out the kinds of limitations you will need to impose on your questions if you are to have a successful union with the members here. Questions phrased this way invite frustration into your thread and prevent many members from offering their valuable insight. Just a thought. It's hard to say for sure what this means IMHO.

“Brevity is the soul of wit"

Happy Wanderer,
After witnessing some people being swept away by the “dazzle” of the Internet; from spending hours doing whatever it is that can be done there, to creating a virtual reality, and losing every bit of their own (with family and all). My comment was not directed to Clarity members specifically. The question has to do more with myself. “The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place… The man with toothache thinks everyone happy whose teeth are sound.” George Bernard Shaw

My post mentions other than what you focused on, but as you quoted, “Brevity is the soul of wit," so it was on me, as you said, “Perhaps pointing out the kinds of limitations you will need to impose on your questions if you are to have a successful union with the members here,” and in quoting Shakespeare, "There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so."

Thank you for you’re IMHO.

Interesting reading Claroscuro. I see the whole reading as depicting the balance of two very opposite things. 60 can be looked at as increments of both interacting with family (and other relationships right around you) and with internet relationships. Measuring out how much of each is right for you. Finding the balance of them both and realizing that they are not made of the same consistency. Like if you have a scale and on one side you place one stone. Figuring out how many feathers to balance is tricky because it is not going to take just one feather like the stone. 60 could be saying that structure of amounts needs looked at, but not to harshly cut one out or the other.

Line 1 and 2 to me are speaking of both extremes, and showing you that both have their place of importance. Family and those right around you in line 1. Branching out of that space in line 2.

Overall I think it is saying that yes of course family interaction is important, but internet interactions are a great opportunity to learn and connect on a vaster scale. The misfortune in line 2 is a warning and the advice is to take steps out of the 'gate'. To step out of the home and (as I see it for this reading) step into the world wide web I think that each relationship and connection, both internet or not, needs to be treated for what it is. They are just different kinds of interactions so having a realistic approach to how you view them is also important.

The original Chinese character for 60 is a picture of bamboo. Thinking about that, I see the larger green segments as the relationships that are directly around you. But the bamboo has those smaller lines in-between them that are darker lines that separate the larger chunks. I see those smaller lines as the internet interactions. We are in a physical location with people around us so it is important for us to connect with those people. But in order for growth to happen, sometimes we need to understand the bigger picture and also branch out. I think that is what the internet connections do.

Also:
8's advice -- Don't hesitate (don't be late). Seek to bond.
60's advice -- articulate your words and measure things out. But don't go about it harshly.

claroscuro said:

I find myself unable to understand or to be understood even amongst my immediate circle.

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It is very important that you seek another group of people with whom you can feel close. Or reach out to make a friend who is a real person, not an internet connection. Internet friends are fine, but only as long as we realize that our internet friends are far away and cannot fulfill our real need for closeness and support. There is no substitute for communication when you can see the other person's face and hands and hear their voice! Aim for that, Claroscuro, and I think this is the message of Yi to you.