There is a background to this. Suffice is to say that timing, no pun intended, is good.

http://www.biroco.com/journal.htm#enquire

Hola Luis ;
Thanks for this article. It is nothing short of excellent to me. A must have for anybody interested in divining with the Yi Jing.
Sergio

He lost me at "The only true way to divine with the Yijing is..." It's not that I disagree with what follows, as a general rule, it's that when a) "this is the only way" is mentioned, I can not take it too seriously. Things are rarely limited to one way. It is nature to have two eyes, but we would find another way with just one, or none. Our brain and neuron system works just like the root of a tree. If part is cut off or malfunction, the nerves grow around it (pushing upward). So long as fuel is fed to it, it will find another way ahead. He continues: "..to ask about the nature of 'the time' in relation to whatever it is one wishes to know about." I think you know my respect for Ti Ming, however, questions to the Yi are not limited to questions pertaining to a specific time, past, present or future. It may be a philosophical question, a moral or ethical question, a question about life in general (20.6), not necessarily my life this moment or sometime past or present (20.5).

I agree with what he says in general, but "only true way" has a way of getting in my craw.

Ditto on that - sometimes we ask in order to understand better (ourselves and beyond, things of the past or of a wider-than-now horizon in our lives) rather than act . . other than that I have a lot of respect for what Marshall wrote and especially enjoyed his description of time and its signs . . :bows:

I tend to agree with both of you in your appreciations regarding Mr.Marshall's one sidedness ( flechar la cancha, Luis). I take it as his opinion which he is entitled to as you are to criticize it. I think is more a bit of rhetoric to drive his point through, though. Usually we assume that, since the I Ching contains everything in nature or the universe for that matter, it follows it must also contain the future. That is provided we think of the future as something already fixed in time therefore foreseeable and predictable. It also points to a desire to control events and have them develop our way. Call it insecurity or fear or anxiousness, you decide. The point is still the same. We feel the present as this fixed location in time therefore we take it for granted that the future is like that too, somehow akin to life been centered around ourselves, oblivious to influences from the outside. Is like asking will I win the chess game tomorrow? and the truth is you don't know and neither does the I Ching.( How could it, anyway? It is a book not a deity.)Just play the game and you will find out. But the other lines of questioning that Meng suggests are, to me. very much applicable and beneficial when using the I Ching. Conceptually, though, Mr Marshall hits the nail. His description of time and signs as Rodaki points out is enlightening and is indeed one of the highlights of his blog post.

as i thunk it

It takes a bit of leaning into a few curves for me to stay on the bike, Sergio. I like a lot what you said, if I interpret it my way. Here again we are in the land of interpreting what someone means, by saying something like..

We feel the present as this fixed location in time therefore we take it for granted that the future is like that too, somehow akin to life been centered around ourselves, oblivious to influences from the outside.

Click to expand...

I understand what you mean, I think. At any rate, I know what it means to me. My first question is: who are "we"? And the future is like the too - according to ________?

I think a dissection of our faith system is greatly more complex than breaking it down simply. Maybe to some it is a simple and finished matter, but I think most of us candidly carry around a good supply of, hell, I don't know. Coming to an admission of that, opens the Way.

Glad you like what I wrote. There is some common ground, then.

Those quotations you highlighted are general statements to make a point. But if you are in search of specificity one need only go into the Shared Readings section to see what I mean. But on a larger scale it also touches me and , why not? you, too. although I do not really know for sure, you would say, and therefore cannot possibly assume it. So if that is the case then by all means count yourself out and count me in. Then everything I wrote before (and after)is according to me, my own opinion.

Nothing can be reduced to simple terms neither it is more valuable because of infinite complexity, Nevertheless there is a beauty to simplicity. The I Ching is basically about the interaction of yin and yang; such a simple premise yet further developed sometimes into extremes just to accommodate certain divination schools twisting it to say and to extract meaning to supports their interpretations( again a general statement that does not necessarily include you or anybody else that might feel unjustly included in any of those groups).

I understand what you say, too... I think. But just for the sake of clarity what is "our faith system",to Whom is it 'a simple and finished matter ", who are "some of us" and what "good supply of, hell, I don't know" do they carry candidly?. No disrespect here, just want to be clear so I can admit to that or not.
Sergio

sergio said:

I understand what you say, too... I think. But just for the sake of clarity what is "our faith system",to Whom is it 'a simple and finished matter ", who are "some of us" and what "good supply of, hell, I don't know" do they carry candidly?. No disrespect here, just want to be clear so I can admit to that or not.
Sergio

Click to expand...

Precisely my point. Less and less am I confident to interpret another's reading with a degree of certainty, more and more do I view engagement with the Yi an ultimately personal, even intimate experience. I may reference what others have made of it, but if it's my reading, only I can decipher its message. I also think this dovetails with Steve's message, and yours.

And who will police the use of the Yi but the Yi, anyway? To another, my interpretation of someones reading may be out there in the cosmic abyss somewhere. If it engages a thinking process, a real engagement with their question and the forthcoming answer, the Yi or an interpreter has done their job. You can lead a questioner to an answer, but you can not make him think.

"Faith System" was a term introduced to me by a mentor, as a neutral way of addressing the potential strength and creative power of belief. I find it (faith system) to be elastic enough to wrap around a good many beliefs, leaving none in the dark and cold. It's what works for someone in the area of ones personal beliefs, with respect and room for others to do likewise.

Just in case you've missed it, there's a follow-up from Steve on this.

Yes, well in his own words, "I expected this objection, indeed, it is a predictable response,

since what I said may seem to tread on the toes of those who haven't yet got around to grasping just what the Yijing is and how it functions and are still happy with the comfy though sloppy illusion that it conforms in its answers to whatever is put to it, no matter how inept the approach."

Click to expand...

eeyup

Today was a great day, sunny and hot. So we, me(el burro primero,Luis) my wife and my niece went to the beach and enjoyed the sun. We swum a couple of times, too. The water was nice and crystal clear. There was a nice breeze later on, a welcomed relief to the blazing sun. And then there were a few clouds, nothing big, just passing clouds I thought. Nothing to worry about because the weather forecast was not calling for rain. So I kept thinking that had I known better these were obvious signs it would be raining soon...So we stayed and enjoyed the beach a bit more. In the end we got absolutely soaking wet.
Sergio