Hi all.. been a while since I've been here. Been wondering lately....

I use the facade.com/iching for my readings. I usually ascribe the subject of a reading (like the one below) to the person connected to the verb in the question as proper English rules would suggest.. but maybe that isnt always true when it comes to readings?
Maybe Bob is feeling thats its me who is "deeply desirous of long continuance"?
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WHAT IS BOB FEELING ABOUT ME?

The present is embodied in Hexagram 32 - Heng (Duration): Successful progress and no error is indicated, but the advantage will come from being firm and correct. Any movement in any direction whatever will be advantageous.

The first (bottommost) line, divided, shows its subject (BOB?) deeply desirous of long continuance. Even with firm correctness there will be evil; there will be no advantage in any way.

The situation is evolving slowly, and Yang (the active masculine force) is gaining ground.

The future is embodied in Hexagram 34 - Ta Chuang (The Power of the Great): It will be advantageous to be firm and correct.
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Maybe if I had posed the question as "What is Bob feeling TOWARD me?" and got the same response I could conclude only then for sure that it is he who wants long continuance?

Hello fatequeen.

You ask a question that is not easy to respond to, and hopefully people will write in with their experiences. It is often hard to tell who the speaker is. I addressed this situation one time, not sure where, it might have been on my blogspot, [email protected]

As a general rule it is the I Ching itself that is speaking to us, and giving us advice. Sometimes, in a matter of speaking, it is the subject of the reading that is speaking to us, and occasionally it may be us speaking to someone. The only way I've ever discovered to find out which it is is by intuition. Unfortunately, I find intuition works a lot better when reading for someone else than it does in reading for myself.

There are certain keys here though that can give us clues. First off, you are asking how Bob is feeling about you, not the other way around, so we can assume, in this case at least, that Bob is doing the speaking. It can also be assumed the higher self is doing the speaking. The commentary on hexagram thirty two line one says, "Whatever endures can be created only gradually by long-continued work and careful reflection." I wouldn't worry about the "Duration" aspect of the hexagram as line one is almost always about initial stages and prematurity. This line appears to be saying Bob feels that things are moving too fast. The line is also a yin line, which might indicate, (but not necessarily) as in this case, that the subject is female. That would be you. It appears that Bob feels things are moving too fast. He is not ready.

We see the same theme in hexagram thirty four, where it speaks of too much force. If we push ourselves out there, once we have pushed to our limit, we have no more power to continue. Therefore, it is best to hold back. (See hexagram fifty three) It is usually best too, when the first line is the only changing line, to hold back until the conditions are ripe for further advancement. The nature of the reading here is that Bob and the higher self are speaking to you, and giving you this advice about how they feel.

I suspect that many people run into this same problematic situation, where they can't tell who is the speaker and who is the subject. It might make a good discussion. I don't know.

Gene

In my practice the querent is always the subject.

This really comes into play when there are multiple lines changing, and one line might refer to you, another to another person involved and another to a third person. Sometimes a dialogue is carried on within the reading, different people speaking to each other.

Gene

pocossin said:

In my practice the querent is always the subject.

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What's a querent?

fatequeen said:

What's a querent?

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The person who asks the question.

For whom indeed. I think it's a good question, one I must negotiate even when my question isn't about someone else. Conscientiousness is a virtue, but believing that I am what my readings are exclusively referring to in it's stories and analogies, is also egotistically assuming and existential (the world according to my ideology), without considering, what if I am wrong, and this reading isn't about me at all? Why must I automatically assume that position without my mind being open? Sometimes it is someone or something else that's the subject, the object of focus. I personally believe in self-knowledge first, but that doesn't mean life is all about me.

The person who asks the question colors the question just as a person colors their work station. This atmosphere of the the question in my opinion is what a diviner should respond to. That is the difference between divination and factual communication.

pocossin said:

The person who asks the question colors the question just as a person colors their work station. This atmosphere of the the question in my opinion is what a diviner should respond to. That is the difference between divination and factual communication.

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I agree with your first sentence, not necessarily after that.

Where are my keys? or other such purely objective questions are often answered in 'matter-of-fact' style. What is colored is ones own personal interpretation tendencies, and that was my point. Is this me Yi speaks of? And if so, is that being conscientious or narcissistic?

What a diviner should respond to, which also may imply what a diviner shouldn't respond to, seems an excellent question, which deserves its own thread. And include what exactly is a diviner? I don't think of myself as a diviner or anything with any special skills or gift to divine. I just have quick and colorful cognitive skills, not in an intellectual way so much as creative. I see an answer, but I see three interpretations.

In my view there are no purely objective questions. A person who has lost their keys experiences inner turmoil -- fear, embarrassment, worry. To formalize this question and present it for divination implies deep concern. I consider divination successful when I am able to address this concern and not its verbal superficialities. We are only semi-conscious of our own inner life. As you said,

Or perhaps the individual makes certain it [the work station] is devoid of such inner reflection; all business. It still says something about the person, they are still expressing themselves.

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Indeed we do. We cannot absolutely conceal ourselves from others, in part, because we have so little understanding of ourselves. That's what friends are for -- to help us understand ourselves -- and a good diviner (my view) befriends.

What a diviner should respond to, which also may imply what a diviner shouldn't respond to, seems an excellent question, which deserves its own thread. And include what exactly is a diviner?

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I have found my practice difficult to communicate.

pocossin said:

In my view there are no purely objective questions. A person who has lost their keys experiences inner turmoil -- fear, embarrassment, worry. To formalize this question and present it for divination implies deep concern. I consider divination successful when I am able to address this concern and not its verbal superficialities. We are only semi-conscious of our own inner life. As you said,



Indeed we do. We cannot absolutely conceal ourselves from others, in part, because we have so little understanding of ourselves. That's what friends are for -- to help us understand ourselves -- and a good diviner (my view) befriends.



I have found my practice difficult to communicate.

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I'd say roughly 90% of my personal Yi use is as you describe, so I don't think you communicate your ideas poorly. I relate to them. The remaining 10% seem purely obvious and blatant; to question them seems like folly, and not the good or fun kind, but the ignorant that won't acknowledge a simple answer, given by the master. But, for the most part, I tend to agree with your applications, as I understood them.

I said before, I see an answer but see three interpretations. I should say, only if I'm not satisfied with the first one which comes to mind. By satisfied I don't mean it's what I wanted to hear, lol, most of the time it's not. But it gives a path toward improvement, and improvement is what I seek. I'd rather find it on my own, within the inner life, because it is from there that everything grows; which being off subject a bit, is my view of 22.