Quick question about 47

rodaki · Mar 19, 2013

hi everyone,

I've been trying to read how 47 figures in a situation I've been keeping an eye on for some time now, but, even after reading most things I can find on the net and here, I still can't seem to come up with a satisfying idea for it - so here's a suggestion and question:
have you ever experienced it as a state where there are things to be said but are purposefully being withheld, 'drained away'? (a kind of 36 but pictured in different imagery)
Or, referring to things not easily expressed in words?

and, have you ever seen it work in ways not often included as the usual interpretations??

Would love to hear your thoughts

(p.s.: if that helps at all, when I asked for a different image for 47 under the specific circumstances, I got 11.1,6 to 18 - I'm still quite stumped here though

and it might be that I'm missing the obvious . . )

any takers??

cheers!

meng · Mar 19, 2013

Only unusual thought I have about 47 is that 'not being believed' can apply either or both ways: not only that I am not believed, but that I don't believe myself... one might even stretch that to include, I don't believe in myself. So, naturally I'm going to feel oppressed and drained, but it's often only by my own dry view of my life. That's why I love garden watering therapy, especially when "Redneck", the resident humming bird, hovers beneath the garden hose or branches to catch the spray for his morning shower. I am a believer after that experience, every time.

rodaki · Mar 19, 2013

heya Bruce,

thanks for the comment - I really love the Redneck imagery, smart bird

Thing is, while water runs freely in the situation I keep getting 47 about, the person involved is keeping great distances from the sources . . there is a sense of propriety and obligation about their behavior (even dignity) but other than that, the imagery is not making any more sense - unless they lack self-confidence or I'm not believing something so those repeated 47s are directed at me - which could be, yet still it feels like something doesn't add up . .

I wonder if the walls in 47 are created as a sort of barricade at something that could be seen as threatening (I was thinking of the role that 37 plays here, its nuclear, with its focus on rules and limits that help keep the unit in good condition . . )

Or could it be that those 'words not believed' are words simply not uttered at all?

meng · Mar 19, 2013

Well, a few little thoughts popped up from your last comments.

One, I thought it was funny when I just now read from LiSe's 47, "remember your garden."

Second, There is water in 47, but it's below the lake bottom.

Third, this essentially is a well, 48; just the opposite connotation from 47. In fact, going deep enough to reach water is emphasized.

This makes me wonder, since you say water runs freely in your 47 situation, if the person in question is not protecting their 48 by capping it off with 47, rendering it unattainable.

bradford · Mar 20, 2013

47 does have a special relationship with words, even beyond the use of 言.
It is the wordiest of all 64 gua, just as 58 is the most laconic. And of course most of the talk is beside the point or avoiding the issues. The real issues are not pointed out and the Yi actually teases the reader with exaggerations in synch with the exaggerated perceptions attendant on fatigue. Maybe words are being regarded as beside the point, or things that need saying are best saved for another time, when they won't be as misconstrued.
"The pencil of the Holy Ghost hath labored more in describing the afflictions of Job than the felicities of Solomon." F. Bacon.

meng · Mar 20, 2013

Interesting connection between 47's not being believed and the book of Job, for of the bunch: Satan, Job's so-called friends, and his own wife, were his oppressors and accusers, through jealousy over Job's righteousness, is why he was not believed, but by God. His 47 started as a curse, but ended as possession in great measure. A story of faith, courage, steadfastness, and uprightness in the face of suffering; rather than the book being a story of afflictions.

Personally, I don't get a bad vibe from 47. It's more like now isn't the right time to try to influence or defend. No matter what Job repeated to his accusers, he was not believed by them. But God believed him from the start. That's what the whole hubbub was about, when His words of Job's virtue weren't believed.

The image of EXHAUSTION.
Thus the superior man stakes his life
On following his will. ~ W/B

The word "his" may infer a greater will, such as God's will, or Heaven's mandate. But that splashes us back into the well, doesn't it.

The humor within 47, I get that. There's nothing funny about sitting in a lake bottom of mud, other than to those who can see it from a distance. When the one sitting can also be one laughing, the oppression ends.

rodaki · Mar 20, 2013

thank you and thank you for the extra thoughts

-I've been really busy to think them thru so will respond as soon as I manage to do so . . :bows:

rodaki · Mar 22, 2013

so . . I'm back with this - putting my thoughts to hatch has done them some good in maturing.
Bradford I've found your comments on wordiness hitting an integral point in the whole story - plus I think it's really fascinating that a hexagram like 47 is made up of one too many words while 58's the other way round . . it's one of them details that make a lot of difference in understanding the notions laying in each hexagram

Looking back in other 47 readings I've had, I find that often it was used to show me silencing something, keeping mum on purpose, feeling that what I had to say would fall on deaf ears and make no impact - which is actually very close to talking a lot without really saying much. So, 47, there might as well be lots of talking, but without much genuine communication going on, or any actual impact of the words said. That makes me think of hexagram 22, where surface is polished and flourishing (and which, intriguingly enough, also comes up often for this very situation)

Bringing up 48 in tandem here is another bright spot and it makes lots of sense in a round about way: lately we were talking in class about how before a tsunami hits, the waters in seashores are drawn way in, leaving big expanses dry; in the same way, if water is to amass and create a well, it has to dry away in other spaces

Exaggeration seems to be part of the process in 47, and it even feels a bit stingy as a hexagram (saturnian also) and other times I think it's simply a matter of digging deep enough - even testing if someone will make the effort

It makes a lot of sense too, seen like that . .

thanks again for steering this stream of thoughts onwards - I think I'm getting somewhere here

meng · Mar 23, 2013

For me, what 47 comes down to is, does this thing that I'm feeling oppressed by really matter? Or, as you say, Dora, am I just exaggerating that certain oppressive sensation? Which I believe should be a naturally given question with every 47 ever received.

A visual image that arose: a person walks up to the bank of a lake, expecting to look into the water, see the water, their reflection in it, maybe even beneath the water, at least see life which grows upward from out of the lake (it is a swamp really, or the part of a lake which is most fertile) - but instead finds a dried lake bed. It can be a real bummer, for real. And nothing you can say can change it. Judgment isn't necessary, and all it does is piss us off or get us all worked up inside, maybe creates it's own 47. Maybe there's simply nothing to believe or that needs to be believed?

rodaki · Mar 23, 2013

hey Bruce!

in terms of exaggeration: thing is, I can't really be too sure as to whether it fits the situation I have in mind. There are real issues involved there and that person might be truly exhausted or depressed about them, OR it might be that they're missing the bright spots that are there either way . . They often choose to stay isolated (for good reason I suppose), but since they welcome and enjoy company, they could feel plagued by loneliness when there are no visitors - yet they won't venture much out in search of them :brickwall:

The sense I get, sometimes, is that they might be peeved that others are not 'answering their call', but, in truth, they hardly make that call audible and clear enough to be heard! could they be feeling misunderstood on top of that??

When I first started working with them (colleague-wise) I was happy to do a lot of the legwork needed to make things roll; then at some point, I felt my willingness was being taken for granted so I backed away - uncannily enough, when I'd asked how they'd react if I backed away, I got 47 for an answer - hm!

So you see, while I can't be too sure of the gravity they could be feeling, I feel that they're not making too much of an effort to reach out to the cool water spring by themselves and sort of wait for it, to lay itself on their path - and since I'm not willing to do the work for them, I prefer watching from some distance, 5.1 style and thus 47 remains as such . . it's rather sad really but it's true to their choice so . .

meng · Mar 23, 2013

rodaki said:
when I'd asked how they'd react if I backed away, I got 47 for an answer - hm!

So you see, while I can't be too sure of the gravity they could be feeling, I feel that they're not making too much of an effort to reach out to the cool water spring by themselves and sort of wait for it, to lay itself on their path - and since I'm not willing to do the work for them, I prefer watching from some distance, 5.1 style and thus 47 remains as such . . it's rather sad really but it's true to their choice so . .

I can very much relate to your first statement, having received if for a very similar question some time ago. I understood it only too well... the particular type of oppression I'd experience, especially.

The second comment, there seems either a distinctly maternal feeling to it or a controlling one, maybe both. What we may perceive as cool spring water, isn't desired or even perceived by everyone. I'm down with "it's their choice so . ." It isn't up to me how another should be, even when my intentions are pure. But I do empathize with that sense of frustration sometimes.

rodaki · Mar 23, 2013

hm . . from my point of view, my 2nd comment was purposefully non-maternal -where the maternal/controlling thing would be to try to fix things for others, I choose to let go and keep my opinions to myself . .

The way I see it, is that they are where they choose to be, which is all fine really - if it wasn't I'd be trying to change it. That's why those 47s didn't make much sense to me in the first place: I thought there might be something about this that I'm not getting . . it's not that big of a deal at the end of the day, mostly just curiosity about how someone else might be experiencing the world . .

rodaki · Mar 24, 2013

hi Trojan

Coming up with meanings can be a bummer when there's little information available but my point here was to see if people had other experiences of 47 than the usual textbook ones.
My comment about keeping something to one's self, for example, has come up in my own experiences with 47. I know that 36 looks like a more appropriate -again, textbook- hexagram, but as it so happens, I've often found 47 coming up when I felt that there wasn't much point in voicing my thoughts . . and this wasn't always a case of hiding light or protecting, sometimes it was a matter of mere logistics, or time management.
It's these 'unusual' readings that have created richer meaning in Yi's readings for me and I think I'm always a bit oriented in digging deeper when standard ideas don't apply - fields of new meanings opening? yum!

As to these 47s, here's some more info about it:
This year at school I'm part of a team putting together a project that's completely new to me. We're three people in this (hx50 comes up often too, a lovely depiction of how the team works). Our project has had some good and not-so-good moments and I often resort in asking about the energy of each of us within the team to make sure dynamics is flowing smoothly, at least to the point we can influence ourselves.

47 is coming up often for one of the people - the 'well' and ding are working rather well between us, so it doesn't make much sense . . it could mean that they don't believe much in the project (11 to 18?) but that doesn't make sense either cause they were the first to propose it and take leading position in it (they are also the ones with most experience and an award about similar projects). My next thought was that they have concerns they are not voicing . . that's as close I can get to a meaning, cause there are hints they are going through a tough time (depression perhaps? can't tell for sure).
And 47 talking about me, that'd be a possibility but a very hazy one - the feeling I get from this bears no resemblance to 47 . . a far cry, I'd say

Thanks for adding your thoughts though - perhaps in a different context they'd be right on point - as it happens, there's not much inner connection to this situation

meng · Mar 24, 2013

Hiya Dora,

I understand it's no big thing, but your opening question is interesting to think about.

rodaki said:
hi everyone,

have you ever experienced it as a state where there are things to be said but are purposefully being withheld, 'drained away'? (a kind of 36 but pictured in different imagery)
Or, referring to things not easily expressed in words?

and, have you ever seen it work in ways not often included as the usual interpretations??

I tend to ponder questions at least as much as answers, lol. It's like a finding Elmo puzzle. Also enjoy thinking outside the box, and those questions nudge thinking outside of the usual box of logic. As though something else is required to unfold that situation before you. Something intuitive and natural.

shiny and moist
a tender leaf unfurls

winter's left
spring has come

no room for gloom now
for the end is coming soon enough
and now has come

shiny and moist
a tender leaf unfurls

winter's left
spring has come
no room for gloom now

this my garden teaches me

rodaki · Mar 24, 2013

Trojan do me a favor please: if the only things you have to say are meant to prove how someone is wrong in their point of view and thoughts, please refrain from commenting to my posts - I find your approach simply draining

straight 47 indeed

rodaki · Mar 24, 2013

meng said:
Hiya Dora,

I understand it's no big thing, but your opening question is interesting to think about.

I tend to ponder questions at least as much as answers, lol. It's like a finding Elmo puzzle. Also enjoy thinking outside the box, and those questions nudge thinking outside of the usual box of logic. As though something else is required to unfold that situation before you. Something intuitive and natural.

shiny and moist
a tender leaf unfurls

winter's left
spring has come

no room for gloom now
for the end is coming soon enough
and now has come

shiny and moist
a tender leaf unfurls

winter's left
spring has come
no room for gloom now

this my garden teaches me

loving this

. . can I dance to it too?
(we need a spring emoticon in here

)

meng · Mar 24, 2013

Just kidding of course, but it's made me consider compression in a 47 context.

The music we hear on media is very compressed, which is a way of fitting more into less space, by pushing down on the highs and up on the lows, squishing it in effect. But when music is too compressed it sounds like it's being squeezed out of a tooth paste tube. So, in that sense, compression is oppression of energy.. holding back, until released again.

No point necessarily relating to your situation, just a thought.

rodaki · Mar 24, 2013

lol (well, that kind of spring I guess will do too - I was talking about Spring as opposed to winter

)

To be fair though, it is relevant to the thought of how waters are drawn back to create tsunami waves - it's draining away energy from one field to create momentum somewhere else . . I remember reading somewhere that the dynamic states described in Yi are really fewer than 64 and take on different specifics to create all the various hexagrams - already we've talked of how 47 resembles 36 in some ways and now your post made me think how close it comes to 23 - such things I'd love to be able to discuss about with others here; what happens in such times??

. . sometimes it makes me visualize it all like talking about the same season but in different places: same basic rules yet in different landscapes

yiyione · Apr 8, 2013

want to share an experience of hex47.
this morning I ask yijing what is the potential that I see x accidentally in the cafe? Yi answers hex 47.
I thought it means no potential.
this afternoon, when I went out, considering which cafe to go, several options come to my mind. yet I remembered this reading, so said to myself if I do not go that cafe, how can I know about this reading.
so I went, and x was there with one friend.
does it mean that hex47 as a confined unchanged could link to something opposite, like encounter?

this links to another reading I did this morning.
How will he approach me today? and Yi's answer, 55.3 to 51
My reading: he cannot give me his full attention,something he needs to do, so won't approach me.

In the real happening, this afternoon experience shows that x spends some time with friends, so might not have any time to contact me. hex 51 is a surprise a shock. yea, x must be shocked to see me there.
last sunday, I also asked the same question: How will he approach me on Monday 8 April? and Yi's answer, 38.3 to 14. just put the record here and share.

rodaki · Apr 8, 2013

hi yiyione,

from what I can tell, I'd say your 47 was speaking to your feeling unnoticed/unappreciated by him (47.2 comes to mind) . . 55/51 for usually comes up to show too much to do, needing all my 51 energy, leaving just a small opening for anything else . . Wish you the best with your friend!

charly · Apr 9, 2013

Hi, Dora:

I always saw H.47 KUN as an image of the GARDEN OF EDEN or the TREE OF THE PROHIBITED FRUIT.

But KUN also means SLEEPY.

SLEEPY FEAST. OMEN GREAT PEOPLE LUCKY. NO WRONG.
Time of dreams celebration. Lucky for adults and no wrong.

THERE WILL BE WORDS UNBELIEVABLE.
Dreams of love speak unvelievable words.

The tree sourrounded by a grill can be sleepy or distreessed but is a living tree and sooner or later the roots and the branches will surpass the enclosure.

Sooner or later the fruit will find its predestined mouth.

The dreams of freedom and the deams of love sooner or later will become true.

Of course, to sleep is a sexual euphemism and I wonder what happens with 47.1's sleepy buttocks and the tree trunk entering into the secret valley ... But that's another story.

If the tree of KUN belongs to the Garden of Eden, words are said not for being believed.

All the best,

Charly

rodaki · Apr 9, 2013

oh damn - I wish I could find a way to read 'garden of Eden' in this hexagram, but it very rarely comes up like that in my readings! I find it a lovely thought though . . I wonder if it can also include feeling so self-sufficient that one cuts way back on interactions with others? That could also be a possibility with this reading . .

charly · Apr 13, 2013

rodaki said:
oh damn - I wish I could find a way to read 'garden of Eden' in this hexagram, but it very rarely comes up like that in my readings! I find it a lovely thought though . . I wonder if it can also include feeling so self-sufficient that one cuts way back on interactions with others? That could also be a possibility with this reading . .

Hi, Dora:

I believe that the self-sufficient hypotesis is not applied here. «NO MAN IS AN ISLAND» any living being neither. The enclosure sourronding the tree can be seen as PROHIBITION FOR GUESTS or as PROTECTION FOR THE TREE OR ITS FRUITS. But the tree itself is not self sufficient. It was not the tree that built the enclosure.

The tree in the garden is the image of a promise, planted there for causing the bandits to arrive because even gods are no self-sufficient and need a quota of love.

All the best,

Charly

Quick question about 47

visitor

(deceased)

visitor

(deceased)

(deceased)

(deceased)

visitor

visitor

(deceased)

visitor

(deceased)

visitor

visitor

(deceased)

visitor

visitor

(deceased)

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor