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Not sure if this should go here or in Exploring Div.

kaelin

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What do you do when you get two contradictory changing lines?

What I mean by that is, sometimes there are lines in one hexagram that are clearly meant to be compared and contrasted to one another. For instance, recently I got Hex. 49: Revolution/Molting

The present is embodied in Hexagram 49 - Ko (Revolution): What takes place is believed in only after it has been accomplished. There will be great progress and success. Advantage will come from being firm and correct. In that case, occasion for repentance will disappear.

Now, the top two lines of Ko are changing like a tiger (line 5) and changing like a leopard (line 6).


The Tiger line (line 5) The fifth line, undivided, shows the great man producing his changes, as the tiger does when he changes his stripes. Before he divines and proceeds to action, faith has been reposed in him.

Or Lise's reading: 9 at 5: The great one changes like a tiger. Even before the augury he inspires confidence.
Who acts and reacts open and honest and clearly visible, will find belief. Openness has more power of expression than any explanation. He is the one who can persuade others towards the good changes.


And, the leopard line (line 6): The sixth line, divided, shows the superior man producing his changes as the leopard does when he changes his spots, while small men change their faces and show their obedience. To go forward now would lead to evil, but there will be good fortune in abiding firm and correct.

Lise's reading of the leopard: Above 6: The noble one changes like a leopard, small men shed the skin of the face. To set things right: pitfall. Settling-down determination: auspicious.
Be content with the results when everybody acts as best he can. Asking for more will bring about failure and bad feelings. A change is for the better, not for perfection.


The tiger change is associated with big change, big transformation, and has to do with leadership, power, moving forward (partly b/c it's line 5, I guess). The leopard change is supposed to be much more hesitant, kind of accept how things are, don't demand more. These two lines seem to me to be comparing and contrasting two different kinds of change.

I got both.
This is confusing.

Now, of course, not every line in every hex I get is going to be referring to me. The question was (perhaps not the greatest question) "Is there a chance I could get a job?" I wanted a general sense of whether that was possible for me right now. It sure seems like the lines are talking about the changes I'd have to make to get a job. I was actually pleasantly surprised in that when I read Lise's interpretation of the lines, there was a lot of talk about honesty, b/c the field I'm in--well, there's a temptation to try and advance by hiding your true opinions, true character. The circumstances are such that I'm inclined to think a person with my views, if honestly expressed, would have a hard time getting a job. But the I Ching seems to be saying "Be honest. If you change, change from within."

On the other hand, maybe a change has to happen in someone else for the job opportunity to arise. In other words, change has to happen both in me and in another. B/c the tiger change is in line 5, and I rarely identify myself with that line. And in an employment situation, I'd say line 5 would be the boss, the person hiring, not the prospective employee.

Still, aside from the details of this particular reading--what in the hey do you do when you get two contradictory lines in one hex!!!:confused:
 

pocossin

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Since there is no query, I have moved the thread to Exploring Divination.
 

meng

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I agree, lines 5 and 6 represent two kinds of change.

I don't understand why 49.5 would not represent you. You've been through obvious transformations before, such as from a girl to a woman. (assuming you are the latter) Some signs of molting you just can't hide, like the bold contrasting stripes of a tiger. A panther/black leopard's changes, in line 6, aren't as noticeable, the changes blend in subtly. You have to look closely to even see the spots. But they molt nonetheless.

Is getting both in one reading a contradiction? (not saying you said it was), or are they two areas of the same revolutionary change: the obvious and the less conspicuous changes. One might even say the outer and inner changes.
 

rodaki

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What do you do when you get two contradictory changing lines?



Now, the top two lines of Ko are changing like a tiger (line 5) and changing like a leopard (line 6).




I got both.
This is confusing.


. . what if they're not two different kinds of change but two time-stages of the same process?
If you look at the patterns on the skins of tigers and leopards you'll see that in tiger skin there is a central axis running along their back and vertical, smaller lines cascading down from it - it's like a central leader and its followers, it's easy to recognize, make sense and replicate the visual. So this is line 5, the leader and the moment where change becomes completed and fully visible (btw, 49 is not necessarily an abrupt change, patterns may take their sweet time to form and complete)

In leopard skin the patterns are rather more complex. There is no central axis, no clearly legible big-scale shapes formed, but instead, a spotted pattern randomly scattered across the animal's body and, while it's easy to describe each individual spot, it's not easy to apply clear formations in their distribution. I think that might also make leopards harder to distinguish in the outdoors, their skins more readily blending with their environment. Leopards are the theme of line 6, the line that often looks back and speaks in hindsight of the hexagram as a whole or suggests the next step after it. Here, for me, it feels like it speaks of a change that has fully matured and asks the same from the subject; like saying that, once the change becomes obvious, visible, know when to stop pushing for more, once you see it, stay with the change, put your faith in it and work with it, blend, become one with it - and if you know how to achieve such effects, it's almost as good as you being the leader behind it.
There are various ways that you could apply these to your situation which you'd know best . . here's my two cents on this, hope they helped!
 
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Trojina

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Still, aside from the details of this particular reading--what in the hey do you do when you get two contradictory lines in one hex!!!

There's some ideas here I think

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...log-post-How-important-are-the-changing-lines



But also I think it's helpful to consider the hexagram pattern the change lines make, the change patterns. You find the yang change pattern by making all change lines yang so here your yang pattern is hex 20 so this is something you are approaching by viewing. The yin change pattern, if you make all change lines yin, is 34, the way through and beyond the issue is focus and thrust. These dimensions can be just incorporated into the whole reading.


I now think seeing/taking into account the change pattern is a very fundamental part of getting the message of changing lines.
 

Trojina

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Oh there is a query here

The question was (perhaps not the greatest question) "Is there a chance I could get a job?" I wanted a general sense of whether that was possible for me right now. It sure seems like the lines are talking about the changes I'd have to make to get a job. I was actually pleasantly surprised in that when I read Lise's interpretation of the lines, there was a lot of talk about honesty, b/c the field I'm in--well, there's a temptation to try and advance by hiding your true opinions, true character. The circumstances are such that I'm inclined to think a person with my views, if honestly expressed, would have a hard time getting a job. But the I Ching seems to be saying "Be honest. If you change, change from within."

On the other hand, maybe a change has to happen in someone else for the job opportunity to arise. In other words, change has to happen both in me and in another. B/c the tiger change is in line 5, and I rarely identify myself with that line. And in an employment situation, I'd say line 5 would be the boss, the person hiring, not the prospective employee.

it's a very dynamic answer as if you are poised on the brink of something. I hesitate to say 'you will get the job' because often an answer goes far beyond the question....so it's like whether you get the job or not you are in the midst of a great process of transforming your life. The answer is about you not the boss as the boss of your life is you not him
 

kaelin

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I am sorry I haven't been around to thank people for their answers--perhaps posting something in the middle of moving house wasn't the smartest thing in the world, but I appreciate the time everybody took to help me muddle through this. I guess what I get from people's replies is, that sometimes what appears to be contradictory is not.
 

rodaki

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hi kaelin

I think lines in a hexagram are as contradictory as our two brain hemispheres are to one another; at the end of the day, they are meant to work together . .
Good luck with your moving, that's always a hustle!

(btw, could it be that your answer was partly referring to your moving too? It stands a big chance imo, especially if it was lurking in the back of your mind when you cast it - Yi has a knack for bringing the background stuff up to the surface to contemplate :rolleyes:)
 

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