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Friendship Conflict 60 to 45

malka

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Several months ago a friend of mine (female, platonic friendship!) and I had a conflict that we just couldn't get through. During the experience I learned that we have very different conflict resolution styles (I prefer to talk through things in a timely way, she prefers to autonomize for awhile.) Because of these different styles, the conflict became the conflict, and the core issue of the original conflict was something we never actually discussed. More unfortunate, I believe that in the original conflict we weren't very far apart and probably could have resolved it all easily, given the chance.

The more I pushed for us to "talk" through things, the more she pulled away, and the more anxious I became, the more autocratic she became, etc. I sent an email saying I believed our friendship was risking collapse unless we took the time for open and honest dialogue, and her response was to say she "agreed" that the relationship had collapsed. Her note went on to say she didn't have the time, energy or inclination to try further and so wished me well. (From my perspective there had been no trying at all, as we never did talk about the conflict itself! Ahrg!)

(For perspective, less than two weeks before all this she had invited me to the beach for a week with her whole extended family, and I had recently taken her 8 year-old daughter to a movie and attended her school play, etc.)

I didn't feel there was room for me to respond, and because she had labeled my requests for us to talk as manipulative (!!) I wanted to avoid any behavior that might be perceived as manipulative. Her position was clear and I felt I needed to honor it. And yet, I do miss our friendship and would like to resolve if possible. At the time, I asked Yi what the outcome would be if I contacted her in a specific way, and I received 45 unchanging. This sounded positive, and yet I chose to do nothing.

After running into her recently (we just said hello) I'm re-thinking contacting her. Perhaps it could be said the ball is in my court as it's "my turn" (the last communication was from her) or perhaps it could be said the ball is still in her court, since she is the one who officially ended the friendship. Either way, today I asked Yi to comment about us: 60 with lines 1, 2, and 4 changing into 45.

I'm not sure if Yi is simply giving me an explanation of what's currently happening with us (there is a restraint to our gathering?) OR if I'm being told that I should restrain and limit (or place boundaries) on our friendship? Line 2 talks about loosing the timing, and it may even be said that too long has already past (about 3 months) but also seems to advise me to "leave the courtyard" and go out and break the rules. 60 in general: "Bitter limitations do not invite commitment" -- how do I interpret?

Blessings,
Malka
 

bradford_h

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Hi Malka-
I just ran this through the transitional hexagram method
60.1 really too soon to accomplish anything. be patient. don't pick the scabs.
29.2 pushing just gets things tangled up again, digs it in deeper
08.4 "superficial" is the way back in. Start over with shallow niceties - keep it sociable and polite.
45.0 her insecurities about all this need to be resolved before there's a comfort level.
She may have been more emotionally affected than you realize
 
C

candid

Guest
Malka, completely agreeing with Brad?s comments.

Only other thing I?d offer is to consider that 45 isn?t only about a social body, but it?s about what we gather or attract to ourselves. That includes not just other people but the effect those other people have on us. In this case, the effect you have on this friend, as well.

I'd let her determine the pace and distance for awhile.
 

malka

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Bradford and Candid ... Thank you!

Superficial is the way back in? Yikes. This is so hard for me. But it does hit the nail on the head about something that I struggled with in this friendship. Although she is a social worker and a very well meaning woman, she is also very uncomfortable with emotions, especially grief. Not purely my assessment, she openly admits this, and states it as one reason she feels intimidated around me. The other reason is that she realized I was the only peer friendship she had. All of her friends, she told me a few months before the conflict, had problems and she was always fixing them. She said this intimidated her about me. I responded by telling her that I had plenty of problems and that if I hadn't shared my vulnerabilities more openly and honestly I would start! She clarified -- I could handle my problems, whereas her other friends can't.

I wish I were better at having superficial friendships. I'd have many more friends! But I'm like so many of those on this forum with a quest for understanding myself and the world, and for discussing issues that matter. I don't know that I always express myself very well on this forum for I'm often stuck and feel limited with written communication, in person -- in dialogue, I'm much more articulate I believe.

And so Bradford your interpretation that she may have been more emotionally affected than I realize is probably true. If I'm honest, I think she was feeling uncomfortable around me and something, at some point, was going to blow. I still believe we could work through it. (I mean, isn't this what friends do -- isn't this what a relationship is??) Although she isn't comfortable with emotions, I adore her openness in other ways, her ethnically diverse group of friends, her fun dinner parties, and her knowledge and liberal position about important social issues. But self actualized she is not.

Candid, I suppose then that 45 is also about the effect she has on me. For me, this situation fed into my abandonment stuff and this was why I got so anxious the more she refused to talk. I seem to gather people around me that I expect will be able and willing to engage deeply, and I'm often disappointed. I need to look at my own lesson here, too.

Just a thought I'm having, I'm wondering if I need to look more closely at who I draw to me, and what I expect / need from them? I shouldn't need anything I suppose, other than accepting them as they are. I'll ponder this.

Malka
 
C

candid

Guest
Hi Malka,

RE: your last thoughts. While I think it's a good idea to be aware of what and who we attract to us, I think it's a bit over the top to say we shouldn't need anything from them. I need a positive return on my investment with any friendship I participate in. Accepting them as they are, yes, and they must except me that same way. But there's got to be more than just mutual acceptance, for me. There has to be mutual benefit. I think this is part of 45's message too.

Check out the (paraphrased) lines for context:

1. the call out
2. being drawn in
3. rejection
4. connection
5. guidance
6. ascension

I?m thinking these are the stages we go through with any worthy friendship. Friends call out to one another. Friends allow themselves to be drawn in together. Friends experience rejection from one another. Friends make a tighter connection. Friends guide one another. Friends ascend.

I?m also thinking these are healthy guidelines to determine the potential value of any friendship.

?Superficial is the way back in?, as I understand it, is returning to the earliest stages of lines 1 and 2.
 
C

candid

Guest
Woops, I supposed that should read:

6
5
4
3
2
1

We westerners are so upside-down, as though trees grow down from the sky.
 
D

demitramn

Guest
Hi Malka
happy.gif


The sign Virgo rules the 11th house of friendships in my natal chart. As I've grown into myself and gotten to know myself better, I've discovered that I'm, unapologetically, very particular about the friendships I keep.

My whole personality makeup is one that naturally goes deep into Self, which translates into a similar inclination to reach deep into others as well. And so, only those who are similarly inclined to reach into themselves are cut out for the type of friendship that means anything to me. Superficiality simply rubs my integrity the wrong way because it forces me outside of myself. There is nothing authentic, and therefore nothing enliving nor empowering, about a friendship that requires me to bring less of myself into the picture.

Over the years, I've discovered that people who shut me out just when I was trying to get to know them better are more interested and at ease when composed and controlled than when the prospect of a soul-to-soul connection is at hand. Therefore and unavoidably, this need to control themselves extends out as a need to control others, and the nature of their relationships as well.

Friendships that didn't have much to offer me, used to take me months, and in one case, years to figure out. I can now spot them easily and early and avoid the hassle of "trying" to develop something where it can't be done. I don't know if this friendship has anything more to offer you but I agree with the advice you've been offered already by Bradford and Candid above.

Using a game of tennis as the background anology... if you can do the superficial thing, then the ball's definitely in your court and she's waiting for you to continue playing an easy game with her - one where she can easily return your shots. If not, then you're ready to play a more challenging game - it's time to seek out a player with more professional skills... one who not only has the capacity to hit the balls deeper and farther into your court but is willing to run for the challenging one's you offer in return.

nothin'-beats-a-good-tennis-match, Demitra
wink.gif
happy.gif
 
C

candid

Guest
Demitra, that was excellent!

It strikes me that the depth of a relationship is only equal to the depth of the shallowest end of the pool. And by shallow I'm not referring to intellectual equality only, though that is a factor, but more the depth of accessibility and vulnerability each offers the other.

Malka's thread got me thinking about the friends I spent last evening with. I thought about the rough spots I had encountered with each one, and them having to deal with mine wasn't a picnic either, I'm sure. Beyond our common interests, which brought us together, there was a clear and strong message we were sending to each other throughout our developing friendship: "I'm here for you. I'm available, and I will return your serve with vigor." These words, having proven themselves in reality, are what has created bonds of friendship.

Another thing I observed about this last night: Even though a particular friend kept our exchange on a superficial level, regarding anything philosophical (he is ?religious?), like water, we found an indirect path into each other. These were provided through small acts of kindness, encouragement and support. As a result, all defenses that arose toward one another were dissolved, and though we?ll not likely ever enjoy a lively volley of what I consider to be exciting discussion, the small acts of kindness have become cumulative acts of love.
 

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