First off, a little about my situation- I am 21, and have been married for two years. My wife and I have been together for four years altogether and have a two year old child. For the past year, our marriage has been *very* difficult, with constant fighting, suspicion, and jealousy. To be honest, we've been having a rough relationship for a few years now, (we were broken up when we found out she was pregnant) but we assumed if we stayed together, we could make it work. Why did we get married, then? It seemed like the right thing to do, with a child and all (despite many people advising to the contrary.)

I really don't feel like we're having your typical newlywed spats. When we're in between fighting, we act like we barely even like each other. Anyway, sorry if this was too much introduction, I just wanted to make the situation clear enough to interpret.

So I asked the I Ching what *I* could do to help move our relationship down the right path (I asked ambiguously because I'm not so sure what the right path even is anymore) and I received the following response: 24 & 6

Some of the text really scared me about our future (particularly the top line in hexagram 24) and I'd really appreciate a second opinion on what this might mean.

also: I asked how I could avoid the disaster spoken of in hexagram 24 and the reply was 1 and 24. . . now I'm really confused :/

Greetings To All...

Shaktibreaks, The 24th hexagram is about being Receptive to an incorrect impulse or force or emotion. Chen is a force, that rises with power, but often times forgets to ask what is right. Chen is the power to do something, but not the right to do something. In the 24th Hexagram this emotion (Energy In Motion) rises and Kun is receptive to it. chen is balanced in the 42nd Hexagram, because Sun penetrates to the bottom of this force to find out it's cause, and checks this force, so the Yi King say's the 42nd Hexagram is how we increase by penetrating to the bottom of what drives us and correcting it. Here, in the 24th Hexagram, this Force has the ability to flow uninterrupted, because it shows that you're being receptive to it. the correct way of functioning is to ignore this e-motion and to *Return* to correct behavior in the relationship. So they named this Hexagram *Return*. I say Ignore, not to be confused with suppressing it. Suppressing it often times means we just don't give it outward expression, but we nourish the thought inwardly, which is what the 27th Hexagram is about. Becareful of the thoughts that you nourish. the 1st Hexagram is Ch'ien, the *Will*. The ability to avoid disaster depends on your *Will*. The *Will* is your coordinator of the all the trigrams/forces, they Call it the Father. (I hope you're picking up the Genius of the ancients with their symbolism here) The *Will* once it has been guided by truth coordinates, or controls the other forces, or gives birth to these forces to create a reality based on truth, so they called it The Creative. to *Will* is to Initiate, to Originate, to Create, they all mean the same thing. This is Controlled Fire. When this *will* controls chen we have the 35th Hexagram, They call it Great Power. So the Oracle says that you have this energy that is causing all of these fights in the relationship because you're receptive to it, and the correct execution of the will is how you avoid disaster at the 24th Hexagram. you both need to control yourselves here and discuss your issues that are causing questions. Arguing and fighting is a dead end. *Return* to proper conduct. I hope this helps.

Hello Shaktibreaks,

That?s a whole lotta change lines. Given the fact that its come up again relating to your second question, the message is clearly in #24. Overall, I?m in synch with Supa?s response to your question, though we each see and express it a bit differently.

What is plain, is that you need to return. This is not to be confused with a retreat. The fact that you received #1 The Creative, again changing to return, confirms this. I see it then as calling for a Creative return. That is, tapping into the creative resources available to you to execute a successful return.

Now the question may well be, return to what? It?s a return to where all thing grow from, where things begin anew. This possibly means, a renewal of your relationship by returning to the core values which led you to ?do the right thing.? It is often said, that the first years of marriage are the roughest. I think there?s some truth in that. So many adjustments and changes, plus the addition of a new soul to care for, to be responsible for. It can be a staggering experience for both, especially if you are uncertain whether this is what you each would have wanted, without the urgency of caring for the child you?ve brought into the world. That can cause all kinds of doubts.

As sometimes happens, the Ching has shown you a progression of attitudes and degrees of WILLingness to execute a successful return, ending with a frightening admonition. The admonition is certainly to be taken seriously. If one misses the return, your destiny falls out of synch with Tao and with your intended fate. At that point, much is purely up to chance. Then, you?ll need to start over again, rather than simply returning to where you can be right now.

Return, is a time to return to what?s inside, at your core, that place where you know what?s right. The Ching relates it to winter solstice, a time when souls turn inward for contemplation and reflection. It is a time of potential new beginnings, and it sets the tone of all that will follow, through the course of the year. Therefore, its an extremely important time. This point is driven home with the final hexagram, #6. ?The image of Conflict. Thus in all his transactions the superior man carefully considers the beginning.?

Return to your core, that part of you, you know you can trust (God?). There, the creative power (of 1) will clear you of old war residue, and will fill you with a renewed view of the world and your place in it. From that creative seed will come good fortune. But first, you must return. Of this much, concerning the reading, I am certain.

It takes courage to go the high road. Often, there doesn?t seem to be much support and so the path can be sometimes lonely. Know, that you?re not alone. There are many who have walked in steps very similar to yours (me, for one), and can testify that, the way is true. The way is always true and it knows nothing but truth. Therefore, it is safe to return to.

Shaktibreaks,

Gosh, I wish I had more time to write my thoughts about your post, but I don't! Besides that, I'm a slow thinker, and that means I'm a slow writer, and I can't sit here all night thinking! Anyway, I posted what I thought might help you. I hope Hilary won't mind me posting a little numerology here in the friends area, (if not Hilary, feel free to put it where it belongs!)

Shakti, I think what the I Ching could be telling you is to use your "will" (creative resources,# 1 Hexagram) to turn things around, (your family) to that which is love, responsibility, and partnership (# 6 Hexagram).

Here's what numerology has to say about the corresponding Hexagrams 1 6, and 2+4(24)=6

NUMBER 1

Tarot - The magician

I Ching - #1 Ch'ien


NUMBER 6

Tarot - Lovers

I Ching - Sung


1 THE MAGICIAN consciously fixes his attention on a specific goal and through sheer "Will", using his body as a a channel, directs the divine force of life into the material world where the goal becomes a reality. The Magician's conscious mind has perfect control over earthly things. Number 1 is strong, independent vibration requiring the exercise of Will to direct the future course of the cycle.

6 Love, responsibility, understanding, meddling, jealousy

6 THE LOVERS represents the union of opposite but complementary elements. The keyword assigned to this card is discrimination, that quality necessary to discern the innate differences between two things.

The Lover's card is Love of Home, family, justice beauty. The emphasis is usually on the home and family members. There will be changes here in the domestic scene. Family members may enter or leave the home. Responsibility on the home front increase; a family member may become ill or may need your support. If balance is not restored, then separations occur. The home and close relationships may suffer because differences are irreconcilable. Many wars have been fought under the 6 influence.

The 24/6 also centers around relationships. Understanding the feelings and emotions of other is very important now. Generosity and patience must be exercised. If the 24/6 is negatively expressed, stubborn domineering qualities surface. Love can be returned to those who have lost faith through the miracle of compassion or through unknown mystical experiences.

Hope this helps!

Hi shaktibreaks, heres my interpretation for what its worth. I think 24,6 is simply telling you its too late to make repairs in your relationship, the time has past for that. I do not see this as a judgemental line, saying that you have done anything wrong, simply that you can't return and repair the relationship. From what you've said the problems have been there a while now and you are unhappy. You do sound unhappy, as if you feel its over, and on some level its sounds like
you really do want it to be over, so why then are you scared that it will finish - it already has finished really.
I think I do relate hexagram 1 to striking out on your own - realising your own urges and drives, which perhaps this relationship is stopping you doing. Thats just my interpretation of course not any kind of prediction(apologies for being blunt) I know things are never that simple in relationships.

Hi everybody-

Sorry to not post back sooner, but I was hoping to post telling you how everything "worked out" as far as the divination was concerned. Unfortunately, things don't seem to be that simple

Anyway, thank you all SO MUCH for taking the time to interpret this reading. That by itself means alot to me right now, above and beyond the fact that your perspectives helped focus my own thoughts on this. I just hope I can return the favor

Yi was telling me something very obvious that I didn't want to hear. I've drifted away from my Self and what I really believe in, so slowly that I didn't even notice it happening. The destructive cycles that we've slipped into are a huge part of this, and looking at my life, I'm shocked I didn't see this sooner. Unfortunately, like I said, we're not at any kind of resolution, but this really helped me to clarify what *I* need to do right now. (which is what I asked, after all)

After reading all your interpretations, along with my own, I'm no more confident about the future, but I don't think thats as important right now as being sure about my present. Again, thank you so much for your perspectives.

BTW- how literally do you take the actual text? Usually, its obvious enough after some meditation what Yi was saying, but I'm always stumped by the sentences that pop up repetatively, such as "going to the South (North/East/West) brings great fortune." Sometimes, it makes literal sense according to the question, but more often than not, actual *travel* seems to be irrelevant to the question. Any thoughts on the possible symbolic meanings of this? Unlike most of the text, these meanings never seem to reveal themselves through contemplation. (for me, that is)

Dear Shaktibreaks,

Phew, those were two quite complicated readings... five moving lines, twice in a row? No wonder you find the future uncertain - there's a huge range of factors and attitudes at work, and the future is about as far from being fixed as it could possibly get. At least, that's how I would see it. I won't go into a frenzy of belated line-interpretation (unless you want me to). Hexagram 24 seems to be one of those where other people's interpretations can only go so far. Yi says: return to your own path, find the purposeful thing rising deep within you and allow it to grow without hurry or anxiety. It begs the question: what is your path? You're finding the answer to that (it's not the same as finding the path's destination, of course ), so what more could anyone say?

On your general question about compass directions. As you say, they're not often about actual travel (any more than 'finding your own path' means going outside in your walking boots): they're simply metaphors for a way to 'direct' your action.

There are basically two ways of looking at these (that I know of, anyway). One is based on the 'Later Heaven' arrangement of the trigrams around the points of the compass. The south is Li: fire, light, consciousness, warmth, high summer. So 'setting out (on a military expedition) to the South' means setting out in full consciousness, clear-sighted and ready to act decisively to put things right. The Northeast is Ken, mountains: social isolation, individual responsibility, etc... You can find a very full explanation of this approach in Wilhelm. He does talk a lot of sense about these directional omens.

The other could be more historically accurate, as that trigram arrangement is very probably younger than the oldest parts of the oracle. (Then again, it does very often make good divinatory sense...) . It involves looking at the journey of the Zhou as they travelled to attack and overthrow the corrupt Shang dynasty. They went roughly NE, so the friendly territories were in the SW, and by going NE they isolated themselves increasingly in enemy lands. Obviously this is less detailed than the bagua interpretations, which are part of feng shui lore. Still, it makes plenty of sense, and you can fit the two approaches together: SW, level ground, co-operative work with friends, easier paths; NE, mountainous paths, difficult going, isolating yourself from help. (In #39, when you're already struggling, the NE is no longer a good idea.)

I hope the path gets more even and hospitable for you.

Hilary- yup, I've been blessed to live in interesting times

as far as the directional interpretations- I really want to hear more about the bagua cycles applied to the Yi King (sp? I always mix my spelling conventions lol), as I've some prior background in the bagua Gong Fu cycles. As soon as you said "bagua", a little light bulb went *ding* Any writings on this? I have a copy of the Later Heaven arrangement somewhere, but its always good to hear an informed opinion.

Actually- while I'm mentioning it- are there any good resources out there that explaining some of the historical connections in the Yi King? (like the journey of the Zhou you mentioned) I've been looking for something like this for awhile, and the closest I've found is Hook's study, which just touches on the historical themes briefly.

Hi Shaktibreaks,

So - from what you've written on Candid's page elsewhere - what's the answer you would read straight from this one? (If, that is, you don't mind sharing it )

I'm not really the right person to be asking about the bagua - I use trigram associations to read the Daxiang, which is based on them (the 'superior man' Wing) and that's about all. If you know them from another source, then you are probably much better-equipped than I am to use this in interpretations! In case you've mislaid yours, the Later Heaven Arrangement is the one on the trigrams page here - South at the top, and the bottoms of the trigrams are on the inside of the circle.


The academic consensus at present is that the trigrams came after the hexagrams - academia says 'were invented', I prefer 'were discovered'. Shades of the chicken and the egg, methinks. For fully-fledged (!) trigram-based interpretation see Wilhelm - not just the translations you can get online for free, but the complete book which has a lot more material. It will fill you in on a wealth of I Ching tradition. (At the top of the translations page.)


The history is something you largely won't get from Wilhelm, since a lot has been discovered since his time. And most versions of it are mixed either with a liberal dose of accumulated tradition (like Alfred Huang's) or modern imagination (like Martin Palmer). (Neither is necessarily a bad thing, of course!)

The most exciting book on the history and how it actually comes through in the text is SJ Marshall, 'The Mandate of Heaven'. (At the top of the commentaries page.) Of course a lot of what he says isn't 100% proven, but with a 3,000 year old book a lot of things never will be. It's worth a little doubt to be told that Hexagram 55 refers to the events at midday, June 20th, 1070BC, or to connect Hexagram 1 to the practice of climbing the mountain in Spring to the rain dragon's lake to wake him up... Marshall also makes some links to mythology, but the real gem on that front will be Stephen Karcher's coming I Ching, complete with every myth and spiritual practice he could get hold of. It makes a real difference to me to have a human situation to relate a hexagram. It's tantalising to think how much more there must be out there to discover...

(Now what I really want is a book of the mythology of the Shang and Zhou - I hear that some has been separated from the Han dynasty stories and reconstructed. And, of course, I want a city plan from the Zhou period with compass directions marked! Anyone know where I could find either of these?)

Chinese history and mythology. I love to read these wonderful discussions in Clarity, but right now I am a better scholar than diviner. Perhaps I can offer a few suggestions about good reliable things to read. S. J. Marshall's book is very detailed and interesting, but the best scholarly book written about the Yijing in recent years is unquestionably Richard Rutt's Zhouyi: A Bronze Age Document Translated with Introduction and Notes (Curzon, 1996). This book is a treasure-house of information about Yijing in all times, but be advised that Rutt does not believe in he power of divination. There is a good deal about Shang and Zhou cities, including plans, in The Cambridge History of Ancient China from the Origins of Civilization to 221 B.C., edited by Michael Loewe and Edward L. Shaughnessy (two distinguished scholars of early Chinese divination) (C.U.P., 1999). Finally, I would also like to recommend Endymion Wilkinson's Chinese History: A Manual (Harvard U.P., 1999) as a huge and entertaining resource for wrestling with Chinese historical scholarship.

As for early Chinese mythology, the standard work is Anne Birrell's Chinese Mythology: An Introduction (Johns Hopkins U.P., 1993), a broad work that covers the whole difficult but fascinating field. Anyone interested in early Chinese mythology should also take a look at David Hawkes' The Songs of the South, An Ancient Chinese Anthology of Poems by Qu Yuan and Other Poets (Penguin, 1985) and Anne Birrell's translation of the supremely odd The Classic of Mountains and Seas (Penguin, 1999). Sometimes I just want to know what kind of people made and used the Yijing. Then I pick up Arthur Waley's The Book of Songs, and I begin to understand.

Some of these books are hard to find in bookshops and expensive - but they are worth some sacrifice of time and effort to read. An hour with any one of them opens unguessed doors to the past, and offers fresh ideas for Yijing divination today.

Lindsay, welcome to the forum! and thankyou very much for all the recommendations. I do have Richard Rutt, and I've certainly been absorbing all the information he offers. I find him frustrating at times precisely because of that disbelief in divination [... large paragraph of frustrations deleted, because it is a nice, hefty book...] but a good place to go nonetheless. The translations of the Wings are a real bonus.

Anyway, while I consult Amazon and the bank balance about all the rest , could you possibly have a look at those city plans, and anything else that comes to your well-stocked mind, and tell us more about the compass directions?

Many thanks for your help!

wow- great book lists! now, if only I'd started posting here in the fall or winter . . . Oh well, reading in the shade's always good too!

What's your opinion on the John Blofeld translation? (if you're familiar with it, that is) Its the one I have, and its done me well over the years, but I lack a good basis of comparison. . .

As far as the meaning that I read right off the hexagram titles, the only answer I'm really comfortable giving is "Return" to "the Creative Principle". . . of course in a reading as complex as this, I got alot more out of it, but this phrase unlocked it for me. In my own personal web of I Ching associations, this phrase spoke everything that I needed to hear. Everything else about the reading was just confirmation and amplification. . . yet I probably would have missed the point entirely if it weren't for the people who responded to this thread. Particularly Candid and Louise's (yes, blunt, but well appreciated!) replies were real eye-openers. Thanks again.

I really wish I could go into more detail comfortably, since it was really a beautiful reading, but it deals with alot of things in my past that I'm not entirely comfortable *thinking* about yet, let alone talking about to people I've just met! (all wonderful people, but still. . . I'm sure you understand)

Dear Shaktibreaks,

I like John Blofeld's I Ching very much. First appearing in 1965, this book was only the third full English translation of the I Ching core text ever published, preceded by Legge (1899) and Wilhelm/Baynes (1950). And Blofeld was the first translator to stress the living use of the book for divination as opposed to its aspect as an ancient classic (Legge) or philosophical text (Wilhelm). I still read Blofeld's excellent Explanatory Chapters to reintroduce myself to basic concepts of Chinese divination. Nevertheless, I find his text a little too brief and spare for practical use, a little short on explanation and interpretation, so I usually supplement it with a more robust treatment like Wilhelm or Henry Wei or Alfred Huang.

Of course, it is not at all necessary to enslave ourselves to Chinese tradition, but I feel every serious student should be familiar with at least one complete edition of the Yijing, containing the Ten Wings as well as the core text. Some people think the Great Treatise (Dazhuan) imbued the Yi with the profundity that made it a classic, and the Discussion of the Trigrams (Shuo Gua) is essential for understanding a whole school of symbolic and correlative interpretation. Neither of these works is available in most English editions of the Yijing. In point of fact, there are only five complete English translations of every character in the Yi. These include the translations of James Legge, Richard Wilhelm, Wu Jing-Nuan, Richard John Lynn, and Richard Rutt. Unless you are able to access one of these books, you do not have the whole wonderful tool at your command. Why settle for less?

Yours, Lindsay

Agreeing happily with every word!

(Though for beginners coming across this page - you don't have to read and understand every word of every Wing about a hexagram before you can use it in divination. Which is just as well, or very few of us would get started...)

Lindsay, I've bought the Anne Birrell book you recommended and I'm enjoying it as bedtime reading

Who is Henry Wei?

warm wishes,
Hilary