Do Yi Jing readings have a "shelf-life" ?

grndultimte · Dec 20, 2004

Greetings All,

Jeannie - thanks for your reply! My question to the more experienced members is "Do Yi Jing readings have a shelf-life"? Meaning, if I do a particular reading today, how long is the guidance provided by Yi good for? I guess why I'm asking is in the case of an annual reading. If I do an annual, how much of the annual is "set in stone"? I know there is a lot of things that can change in ones life, so, as evolving Chun-tzu's, how do we know that the information provided by Yi is still good so to speak? I guess this can apply to a reading that I do let's say this month, I won't necessarily get the same hex next month...is that right? I guess I'm a little confused still on how to consult the Oracle.

Thank you in advance to these questions being answered.

martin · Dec 20, 2004

Depends, if you put the reading in the fridge it will last longer ..

But seriously, as far as I know readings don't have an expiration date. So it's often hard to know if they are still valid or no longer valid. The 'time' of the I Ching is not clock time.
It's more like qualitative time as in the expression "the spirit of the time" or "Zeitgeist" in German. You could see it as a succession of qualities.
Somehow an oracle reads the quality or 'spirit' of the time and its answers reflect that spirit.
When you feel that the atmosphere has changed it's maybe 'time' to ask again.

jte · Dec 21, 2004

Hi, Grnd -

I think a partial answer to your question is that if you specify a time frame in your question, the answer should apply to that time frame - in the case of longer time frames like a year, I would assume the generality of the response will expand to match, possibly diluting its usefulness.

For me personally, normally if I've asked about a situation and enough time has gone by for me to feel the situation is different, I'll ask again. Important to be measured in this, though - I'd want to really feel it's time for a new look.

My 2 cents, hope it helps...

- Jeff

dobro · Dec 21, 2004

An oracle outcome is valid for the question/situation it's about.

Now, ask yourself the question: how long is that question/situation valid for? That's how long the shelf life is. Some situations are so important that they're significant for your whole life. By contrast, some situations are just for today. The importance and shelf-life of the Yi reading matches the importance and shelf-life of the issue.

candid · Dec 21, 2004

They are usually forgotten or tossed before the expiration date. Like a sun sign, a destiny reading lasts a lifetime. But there?s also a-new-born with each breath.

pakua · Dec 21, 2004

"Some situations are so important that they're significant for your whole life"

Just wondering - what situation can last for a whole life without changing, no matter how minor the change is? Wouldn't that then require a new oracle?

Even an oracle for the year - wouldn't a person undergo changes after a shorter or longer period, especially if they are consciously following the advice?

dobro · Dec 21, 2004

"Just wondering - what situation can last for a whole life without changing"

No, no - it's not the situation that stays the same, it's its importance in terms of its impact on your life. There are things that I did, and things that happened to me, maybe 10, maybe 20, maybe 30 years ago, that are still having their influence on my life. I'll give you an example.

When I was 20, a teacher asked me what seems like a strange sort of question. He asked me the question at a high point of a university course, when all our minds were turning like well-tuned lathes, at a moment in the course when emotions were alive. He said to me: "So, what's your conclusion about all we've spoken about - would you say it's better to know and be aware, or would you say it's better not to know and not be aware."

I decided it was better to know, and ever since that time, when it's been a choice for me between sticking my head in the sand and shining the bright lights on the situation, I've chosen the latter. Sure, I kid myself as much as the next person, but when the issue actually reaches consciousness, I opt for awareness.

Okay, I didn't consult the Yi at that point in time, but if I had, that would be an example of a Yi reading that connected with a situation that was so important in its effect on the whole of my life.

candid · Dec 21, 2004

Pakua, good question. I referred to a lifetime destiny reading, and that could be misleading. It's not the destiny that is read, but the nature of an individual that is carried throughout this life, as with a sun sign.

So, for example, a question such as: What is my nature? is like asking, what is my destiny?

We do grow and develop, hopefully, and so have control of our lives and destiny, but some things we can never change.

pakua · Dec 22, 2004

If you're saying, what is your life-purpose or life-goal, I can understand the shelf life lasting a lifetime.

In your example Dobro, you seem to be describing a trait, one which you value and therefore you may nurture and keep all your life. However, there may come a time when that trait disappears, for one reason or another.

Other traits which might be considered negative, we might struggle against, and perhaps after half a lifetime or even near the end of life, we succeed in eradicating, and that trait disappears.

Even your nature as illustrated by your horoscope can be changed, possibly (unless by that you meant a life-purpose type of thing).

If the trait disappears or your nature changes, is it true to say, the reading is over? In other words, the reading lasts until there's a change?

dobro · Dec 22, 2004

The reading applies to the question you ask.

Therefore the shelf-life of the reading is the same as the issue you were asking about. If that issue is a lifetime long (some issues are), then the reading is good for a lifetime.

But it's also true that things change. Maybe the personality issue is the same for you, but maybe external circumstances have changed. So if you asked the Yi about it again, you would probably get a different outcome (that would mean the original reading didn't apply anymore).

It's also true that although a personality issue often stays with you for your whole life, your state of mind and the thoughts you're having at a particular time are different than they were before - so again, you'd probably get a different reading to the one you got before.

However, I think there are readings which are good for a whole lifetime - that the lesson learned is one which is not to be forgotten.

candid · Dec 22, 2004

Pakua, I believe we can refine, grow, alter, enlighten, etc, but our basic nature can never be changed during our lifetime. A horse will never become a cow; a bird will never become an alligator in their lifetime. We're stuck with who we are. Best we can do is make the most of it.

I did a destiny reading about 3-4 years ago during a time it was being discussed here. I received 23, but forgot the change lines and relating gua. Since that time I?ve carefully observed just how much 23 reflects my true nature, and therefore it also reflects my destiny. It also explains much of why things seem to fall away from me after something has been built up. Strange as it seems, I?m at my best without a form. And that also is a trait of Gemini, which is air. So it does all work together in unison.

Have you ever done a destiny reading?

grndultimte · Dec 23, 2004

Candid,

Is there anything "special" one must do for a Destiniy Reading? In addition, do you suggest coins or Yarrow?

Grnd

martin · Dec 23, 2004

Interesting. As far as I remember I never asked about my lifetime destiny, so I did it tonight.

Answer: 20.5 > 23

Hmm, sounds like "we are not going to tell you brother, you can find that out yourself!"

candid · Dec 23, 2004

Grnd, I don't believe it makes a difference what you use. But I'm not sure I'd recommend a destiny reading just yet. Not sure I wouldn't either, as it may provide a sort of guideline to draw your day to day readings toward. Can't give an answer on that, at least not yet.

Martin, are you glad or sorry you did that now?

Do you see any correlation to your astro-charts?

pakua · Dec 23, 2004

I tend to agree Candid. Some people will grow into their basic nature, so much so that at the end, it seems as if they have become a completely different person. Had they done a destiny reading prior to changing, would it have caught the person they were, or the one they would change into? But most will avoid their true nature all their life. I suppose the destiny reading will show them how to get to that place, or where they should be heading?

I doubt I'll be trying one any time soon. For one thing, I don't have the depth to make an interpretation have real value. For another, as you've no doubt seen, I'm pretty confused about the whole time thing. I wouldn't be sure, is this really a liftime thing, or just a phase. And then there would be the temptation, in a year or two, to do another one. Just to see.

candid · Dec 23, 2004

Pakua, I agree that it is more growing into than out of. As far as people who seem to grow into a different person or nature, there's interesting things I've observed with this, even in myself.

Take for example someone who is "born again" into a religion. I've witnessed what seemed like complete transformations in such individuals. Where they were once crude, they now become mild mannered. Where they once cursed, they now speak as saints. Where they once looked ragged and unkempt, they now wear nice, presentable attire. Truly a miracle!.. it seems.

But I question if this new person is really closer or further from their, what you call: true nature. I've watched immensely creative individuals so confine their energy and presentation that they were no longer permitted the seamy side of life, so as to protect their virtue. Rather than their lives expressing personal power, they now express only their liturgy. Will they ever have the courage to leave this neat and acceptable persona and make their way to their 'true nature'? The courage to leave a god is much greater than to remain a slave to him, especially when they would become a pariah rather than a saint. I personally believe that God is rather fond of his black sheep. If that really is their true nature.

pagan · Dec 23, 2004

Hi Candid,
I think the ICHING talks about that in hexagram 49 line 6. It takes time for real change to become 'cellular' or 'systemic'. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't open the door to that new dimension of character, but we can't expect ourselves or others to have an overnight personality-ectomy or turn from sinners to saints. One thing that Carol Anthony points out is that none of us are really 'good people' or 'bad people' it is a choice we make in every second that we are alive. The accumulation of wise choices about our thoughts and actions results in habits that lead to good automatic responses, and the opposite is also true. The more we wander from the way, the harder it is to make right decisions after that.

The ching seems to worship slow and gradual change, because that is what endures. But like 24 line 3 states, repeated return isn't really faulted, because we are making the right choice to return to the path, and that action will potentially create the new habits needed to stay on the right track.
P.

martin · Dec 23, 2004

Maybe such a reading is indeed a lifetime thing, in this sense that it touches upon ones blueprint. But overtime an oracle might emphasize different aspects of that blueprint and I think that it will also adapt its 'wording' to the changing understanding of the questioner. And to where he or she is inwardly at the moment of the reading.
In any case, the reading that I got yesterday (there is of course much more in it than "we are not going to tell you ..") strikes me as very accurate. It seems to reflect a central theme in my life and it does that amazingly precise.

And there are astrological correlations, at least according to my (speculative) system of astrological correspondences. In that system hexagram 20 stands for a mercury-neptune aspect and/or neptune in house 3 or house 6.
And guess what, in my chart neptune is in the sixth house in trine with mercury ..

candid · Dec 23, 2004

Pagan, yes! Love that! Even our 'wrong' choices become part of what we right. Going leads to return, and so on..

Martin, that's fantastic!

You also express in your first paragraph what I hear Pagan saying. To and fro goes the way.

prynne · Dec 23, 2004

If return is the movement of the Tao, then walking away must be a wink and a Tao.

pagan · Dec 23, 2004

"A wink and a Tao", sounds like a delightful song tittle.

Martin mentions hex 20 related to Neptune. What I think is interesting is how hex 20 relates to exaggeration (a jupiter/neptune matter). When we expand something out to the nth degree in order to get a good view of it, we must neccesarily push it out of proportion. Isn't that what humor does? It makes things ridiculous and we laugh. I never thought of the relationship of hex 20 to humor or exaggeration, but there it is. I think that the astrological planets represent the 'concentrated' form of the various aspects of personality, and the myths about these gods and goddesses help us, through exaggeration, put things in perspective.
P.

Do Yi Jing readings have a "shelf-life" ?

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