Greetings forum

So with all this violence in the world, and no end in sight, I asked this question today:

Important i know abt the possibility of war in europe in the not so distant future

Hex 55 unchanging.

Not entirely comforting answer, thunder and lightning happening at the same time? The superior man judges lawsuits and administers punishments. Although Legge says: The lesson of the hexagram is to show how the ruler may preserve the prosperity of his state and people. Humm..

I asked, please clarify?

44.1.2.5 > 30

Can this be read as "Hold your horses, keep your thinking in check; do not let the prevailing world view impinge on your own. Do not let others lead the way, make your own future (law of attraction) and then the future you want will come falling from heaven?"

I have read Nostradamus' and old Mother Shipton's prophecies, which might seem to suggest that a very big war will start in the lands of the muslims, spread through Europe through Turkey. In one way, I feel we are pretty close to a world war 3, things need only to get slightly more imbalanced and the whole domino rack would tumble over. On the other hand, how many more countries have to be involved in a war before we call it a world war?

Any other views on this?

The possibility of war in Europe?
55

55 is about boundaries. Boundaries are being trespassed, and it will continue. So long as Putin -- the world's strongest leader -- nibbles away at his neighbors, no one will stop him. Certainly not the soft, socialist, goody-goody Europeans. Appeasement is cheaper in the short run. What happened to Czechoslovakia in the late 30's may be expected to happen to Russia's neighbors.

So with all this violence in the world

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Actually, from a historical perspective there isn't much violence in the world since most of the real estate that could be easily stolen has been stolen. Mass media hype and exaggeration does not define reality.

So that means you think there is a good chance we will see the war spread to the rest of europe based on that reading?

I agree there is less violence in the world now than there has been historically, on the other hand there is an escalation atm, and that escalation could (worst case scenario) cause a spreading of violence like a forest fire, if it is not nipped in the bud it can become really uncontrollable. I think it will be harder to accomplish in the scandinavian countries where satisfaction is still pretty high, however so many countries in Europe are now struggling financially and people's unhappiness can cause unrest and making the soil fertile for further violent transgressions.

Also the gap between rich and poor is growing, and all the media hype on muslims is causing another rift based omn religion since we do have a large muslim population, especially turks, kurds and iraqis. So the situation has the potential politically to become volatile, and one murder a la St Louis in for example the suburbs of Paris could cause dire consequences.

More than anything it is the financial situation I find the most daunting, since the rift is increasing and if it doesn't change soon someobody just might bring out the guillotines.. Cake anybody?

WiteWidoW said:

So that means you think there is a good chance we will see the war spread to the rest of europe based on that reading?

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No. The Russians will continue their theft, and no one will oppose them. If they invade Poland, maybe.

I agree there is less violence in the world now than there has been historically, on the other hand there is an escalation atm

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atm, I suppose, means 'at the moment'. The escalation is in mass media presentation, not in the real world. It's good for ratings.

I think it will be harder to accomplish in the scandinavian countries where satisfaction is still pretty high

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Again media hype. Denmark, which is said to be the world's happiest country, has the world's highest suicide rate, I have read.

however so many countries in Europe are now struggling financially and people's unhappiness can cause unrest and making the soil fertile for further violent transgressions

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You are, I think, referring to the PIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain). Aren't anti-business socialist policies wonderful?

Also the gap between rich and poor is growing

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Most people are vastly better off than they were 60 years ago.

More than anything it is the financial situation I find the most daunting, since the rift is increasing and if it doesn't change soon someobody just might bring out the guillotines.. Cake anybody?

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Most people (USA at least) share in the increasing national wealth. Maybe not an equal share, but, nevertheless, they get some.

I am not sure I agree with the fact that the current escalation of conflict is just a media hype. I think what is going on in Gaza, Iraq and Syria is most definitely an escalation.

As for the russians, the "work" being done north of the middle east is definitely not helping in keeping the region stable, au contraire. So here we have conflict arising both to the south and to the north of the same longitude.

I don't really think the economies in south of Europe is really representative of socialism. In Norway we have socialism in a much more pronounced extent than southern Europe and our economy isn't doing too shabbily. Also the swedish and finnish social economies are doing pretty good. The danish economy is also not too shabby, and as for the happiness index scoring, they do top these tests done every year or whatever. Coming from Norway where we also have a high rate of life satisfaction, we also have a high suicide rate, I think higher than the danes and we compete with Japan, Sweden, Finland for this "prize". This, I truly believe, is in large part because of the climate. I grew up in Africa and moved back to Norway, extremely depressing not seeing the sun for so long. However, when a Norwegian becomes optimistic, there is none more optimistic than he. Anyhoo, a digression. The point is we live quite peaceful and happy lives, less social than say Spain, but for the ones who are born and grew up there, they seem pretty satisfied and grateful with their lives.

As for the gap between rich and poor, this is based on pure numerical distribution of wealth between the richest families of the world and poorest people (http://www.forbes.com/sites/dalearcher/2013/09/04/could-americas-wealth-gap-lead-to-a-revolt/) I love particularly that little youtube video on there. There is a definite gap between rich and poor which is growing.

Also I have to say I find it infinitely amusing that all these countries (inlcuding the US) owe like trillions and trillions of dollars and euros... to whom..? Countries are going bankrupt (Greece, Italy, Spain, Ireland, Iceland etc etc), and nobody is batting an eyelid, like it is the most natural thing in the world. So we blame their political structure, oh it's socialist, oh it's anti-capitalist, oh it's bad management from the government.. Which I find very hard to swallow and accept. I believe our monetary structural system is inherently flawed, designed so the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and since money = power guess who will have all the power in the end?

Anyway, there are other forums to discuss politics I guess. I was more interested in what my yijing readings were saying about the matter. Thanks for help with the intepretation!

pocossin said:

55 is about boundaries.

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Huh?
i think you made that up.

Moss Elk said:

Huh?
i think you made that up.

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Are you asking for an explanation?

WiteWidoW said:

I don't really think the economies in south of Europe is really representative of socialism. In Norway we have socialism in a much more pronounced extent than southern Europe and our economy isn't doing too shabbily.

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If the PIGS had Norway's North Sea oil revenue, they would be doing well too.

Yes it was impolite of me to only express my befuddlement without also asking for an explanation.

So, where are you drawing the boundary thing from?
i ask because i don't see boundaries in the text or lines.
i see screens or curtains which seem, to me, to be closer to a hat or umbrella than a wall/fence.
And i see judgement and punishment.

Moss Elk said:

where are you drawing the boundary thing from?

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From the hexagram sequence, from the hexagrams as visual objects, and from the trigrams.

53: a woman being married
54: woman inverted. A secondary wife whose purpose was to produce children
55: man inverted. A man's under obligation to support his children.

In 55 the abundance is an abundance of children. For them boundaries needed to be enlarged.

To quote myself from fourteen years ago:

The MAN DOWN symbolizes Domestic Obligations.

Evidence for this Gestalt: The subject of this hexagram is clearly a man: "its subject with his house made large" (line 6).

Evidence for this Symbol: Legge (as do other translators) translates the title of this hexagram as "Abundant Prosperity." The 'abundance', however, is the abundance of progeny. "His house is made large" (line 6). The idea of restriction and confinement occurs in lines 2, 4, and 6. In addition to a full house, from an abundance of progeny comes the restriction of domestic obligations. This idea is supported by the component trigrams. We must pay for our pleasures (hexagram 54). Thus, MAN DOWN symbolizes Domestic Obligations.

Alternate Gestalt: In some contexts, this hexagram represents the dragon that eats the sun during an eclipse.

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Also, the trigrams are in harmony with sequence meaning. Li = boundary. Zhen = movement.

WiteWidow, i would only add that the trigrams (fire within and thunder without) could be viewed as pointing at clarity within and shock without: understanding, in other words, as your inner state, which is confronting shock in your outer circumstances. from my perspective, this seems to say that you have the wisdom and knowledge to deal with these shocking and surprising events about which you have inquired of the Oracle. shock, however, is unsettling and to some degree may be traumatizing which, in turn, can evoke feelings of uncertainty and worry. the potential downside of clarity and understanding is, of course, opinion, and so the reading may be cautioning against being unduly influenced by others' opinions--and to rely on your own wise counsel to see you through these times.

because there are no changing lines, it may be that you will be facing this situation for a while and so need to establish a practice of watching your that your thoughts and emotions are not pulled by the reactions others have to the (truly) shocking events outside.

on a wider scale, perhaps, the reading might address the wider issue of politics in the sense of saying, shock will continue unless wisdom prevails, a kind of macrocosmic reflection of the microcosmic personal reading.

were it my reading and i did not see a direct answer to the question about war in Europe (receiving, instead, an answer about how to deal with present uncertainties), i think i would interpret the Oracle's about war as saying, It hasn't been decided yet.

Pocossin, i don't like very much the way you talk about southern european countries. You live in a country where somebody, a fellow citizen, can die because he has NO MONEY to pay medical care.
I find that very hard to accept.
National health systems are one of the best things european countries have. Social security services too.
Probably that is why violence and criminality are lower in our countries...

deusa said:

Pocossin, i don't like very much the way you talk about southern european countries. You live in a country where somebody, a fellow citizen, can die because he has NO MONEY to pay medical care.
I find that very hard to accept.
National health systems are one of the best things european countries have. Social security services too.
Probably that is why violence and criminality are lower in our countries...

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I cannot respond to your post here. If you started a thread in Moderation, then I could.