Hi,

I've gotten 49 twice this past month.

Once, 49.4, as I described in the other thread about trying to change treatment methods for a sick mother. That finally seemed to work for about a week, then the old ways returned, and the revolution failed. I'm guessing that line 4 was either not strong enough or not clear enough to maintain the new methods, although the texts seem to indicate success, and it does change to 63, which fit so well with the therapy itself.

The second time was 49.5, which I got in relation to saving a relationship I screwed up. I had an idea and started to run with it, but so far I don't see any effects. With line 5 I expected more, especially since the texts seem to say you are believed, supported, etc. right from the beginning.

Any ideas where I'm going wrong in my understanding? Is it just a question of patience?

"Any ideas where I'm going wrong in my understanding? Is it just a question of patience?"

Probably nothing wrong with your understanding, or your patience. Probably just a time for you to be throwing off old forms.

Don't expect to always see the evidence in your external life and what you draw with the Yi. Sometimes it's beneath the surface. Sometimes the Yi sort of lets us know about what's going on with a situation even when there's no chance of us actually recognising the signs of it with our senses and minds.

That makes sense... then it depends how subtle one can be.

But eventually, it must come to the surface, if it changes to something real. No, I suppose it doesn't have to. It could all take place at deeper levels and change to something else before it becomes visible.

Let's say that the Yi reflects the most important aspect or contour of any situation you're enquiring about. Fair enough. Now... just cuz the Yi supplies you with the hexagram that most appropriately fits your question, does that necessarily mean that you're going to clearly understand it? And let's say you draw 49 and you look around at your life and go: "So where's the change?" Well, wouldn't that possibly indicate that the change is going on at a level that you're unaware of?

See, it's plainly obvious to me that most of life is beyond our ability to perceive it. You might not agree. Okay, some people don't accept the idea of a subconscious dimension to the human mind. Some people don't accept the idea of God or spiritual reality. Some people are from Missouri. But I'm not from there, and for me, the unseen dimension of life is a huge reality, the predominant one in fact. Like the old iceberg, most of it's not in plain view. That's why it's so easy for me to think the Yi's talking about the subtle, primary dimension of life when I draw a hexagram or line that seems to bear no relation to anything I recognize in my life.

Your mileage may vary.

Perhaps where you are going wrong is in seeing the answer as somewhere outside of yourself? Maybe the revolution is in leaving behind the 'old skin' of dependency on some external right and wrong, and allowing the freshness of your own creative intelligence to guide the way.
Maybe the revolution comes in finally seeing why your mother needs this challenge for her growth? Maybe until she 'changes' a stuck place in her soul, there is no external help possible. Maybe the Sage tells us what needs to happen, not what is going to happen.

Dobro, I agree that most of everything is unseen and unfelt. Isn't that why we work on this stuff, becoming more and more conscious, trying to see further and further?

But back to 49.5. Many lines are ambiguous, but 49.5 seems so clear. It says, paraphrasing, you change dramatically, clearly, and the people see that and trust and agree with you. The "people" are external, no? Especially when the question relates to a specific person. And yet, the person in question doesn't understand and doesn't trust.

So it must have to do with timing "on your own day you are believed". And yet, line 5 doesn't even need to consult the oracle, so his timing must be ok. I recall when I first thought of what to do, before I checked with Yi, I had a strong feeling about the rightness of it, so that part was true.

On the other hand, maybe that wasn't the real change, which is yet to come. Lord...

Pagan, that's a lot of maybe's there.

I see where you're coming from, but then I wonder, why doesn't the oracle just say, she's stuck, let her deal with it, don't even bother. Instead, it said, try this. And it would have worked, except the authority, her friend, is the one making decisions. He's the old order. And I didn't handle him well enough.

So I'm not complaining about 49.4 so much, it's 49.5 I'm having problems with.

Pakua - hi again. One thing I have to say doesn't have to do with the Yi, and one thing does. Just for a bit of balance.

"I agree that most of everything is unseen and unfelt. Isn't that why we work on this stuff, becoming more and more conscious, trying to see further and further?"

Speaking for myself only, yes and no. I use the Yi because I want more information about the situations I'm in than my senses and feelings and reason can supply. But I'm not trying to see 'further and further'. I've got this idea that there's a certain amount which is useful for me to know, beyond which it's neither useful nor healthy for me to extend my consciousness. Again, you may disagree, or yet again, you may be a different sort of person than I am and be able to know more than I can. But my best guess is that most of us on this planet are within the same range in a lot of ways.

"But back to 49.5. Many lines are ambiguous, but 49.5 seems so clear. It says, paraphrasing, you change dramatically, clearly, and the people see that and trust and agree with you. The "people" are external, no?"

Not necessarily, no. The Yi deals in symbols, so when it uses the word 'people', it might be referring to external people in your life, or it might be referring to aspects of your own inner life - the same way that in dreams you have people that represent aspects of your own inner dynamic, and not any particular person outside of yourself. The word 'people' might also refer to energies or beings which aren't human, but which are intimately associated with your life. This idea might seem strange, depending on your cosmology, but it's one I've accepted. I'm pretty lowscale, so this is just speculation, but it also seems to me that energies which have traditionally been described as angelic, for instance, might in fact be the spiritual aspect of what we are, but that energy comes across as a being different and separate and alien to us because its nature is *so* different from how we normally see ourselves. But whether you view that energy/intelligence as a dimension of yourself, or as a being which is distinct from what you are, it's straightforward enough for the Yi to represent it as 'people'.

Anyway, 49.5 doesn't talk about 'people'. That word - what is it in Chinese? - ren? - doesn't occur in 49.5. Some renderings talk about how you're 'believed' even before you consult the oracle. My rendering is usually that you 'capture truth' even before you consult the oracle. So for me, the meaning is that you're going through a major transformation which is fast and powerful, and you capture the truth of the situation even before you consult the oracle, that's how in tune you are right now.

Hope this is useful, and not just empty philosophizing.

Dobro, I don't find any philosophizing to be empty, especially from the folks on this forum.

I don't think there are any limits to expanding consciousness. It happens anyway, but you can go slow or fast. I'm incredibly attracted to 16.2, about being able to see the end from just the subtle beginnings.

I get the bit about referring to energetic pieces of my being, although I hadn't considered that, especially since that wasn't my question. And I can see the bit about the transformation, and capturing the truth of it. This ties in very nicely with 50.2.6, which I got just previously when I asked what happened? Karcher for 50.2 talks about transformation, but the comrade being unable to handle it, and one should go on alone.

So my question actually was should I share this with the comrade, and got 49.5. It appears I was acting according to the times, but not the comrade, who is still unable to handle it.

But if I was *really* in tune, I wouldn't even bother have shared, it's like throwing pearls before swine, because that was a very big deal for me. (if you're wondering, it's not a romantic situation, just friends).

So you see my problem. I might be in tune with myself and my own state, but something was missing there. I don't quite get it.

"So my question actually was should I share this with the comrade, and got 49.5. It appears I was acting according to the times, but not the comrade, who is still unable to handle it."

Ah, in that case I'd say the Yi is giving you information about yourself and your approach, rather than about the comrade. In other words, sharing with the comrade is a really good thing to do, and represents a powerful transformation or action on your part. Such a cool thing to do in fact that you don't even have to consult the Yi. (And you don't even have to worry about whether the comrade handles it well, badly, or at all...)

I suppose that's the best attitude to take, "do the right thing and forget about the results"

And yet, in hindsight, I wish I hadn't shared. It was just thrown away, and I don't see the value of that. Maybe Yi knows more than me though about that. Maybe there's a seed planted or something.

In hindsight I should've just taken the advice of 50.2 and gone my own way.

Something about the thing just doesn't feel right. But perhaps I'm just grumbling because I didn't get my way.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts and helping me to work through it. There's probably a lesson or two in there that's going to pop up at some point.

Pakua,

There's been times when I thought I had completely wasted my energy trying to reach someone. Maybe I did and maybe not. But there's always the possibility that the one or ones reached were not the ones I had been trying to reach. I believe the Yi's awareness of this goes beyond our understanding at the time we ask our question. Wilhelm?s 31.4 expresses this idea with:

Perseverance brings good fortune.
Remorse disappears.
If a man is agitated in mind,
And his thoughts go hither and thither,
Only those friends
On whom he fixes his conscious thoughts
Will follow.

Yeah, what Candid said. Plus, it's completely possible (and probable, considering all you've outlined regarding the situation) that in that situation 'sharing' was exactly what you and your life and your developing mind needed to do in that moment. And you did it so effortlessly and powerfully, and at just the right moment, that you drew 49.5.

It's like a competition diver does a dive and the judges give the diver high scores. It doesn't matter what the other divers do.

You're probably right guys, given the fact that I DID do something. It was effortless and powerful, and deep (amazing analogy, diving!)

What I was pondering over the weekend was that I think my premise was incorrect. I was operating under the premise that I HAD to do something, to make things right, in order not to lose a friendship. I think now though that I didn't have to do anything. Difficult as it was, I should have done nothing externally, and concentrated on finding my internal way and letting truth do the work, as Carol Anthony keeps saying..

The reason I say that, is because when I originally heard the news, I asked now what, and got 41 unchanging. When I asked if my original screwup had been the problem, I got 5.2. So we have Decrease, and Waiting, and of course 50.2, going your own way.

The thing is, I couldn't do nothing, I just couldn't. Actually, I didn't really believe it, or even see how to do it. The fact remains though, nothing worked externally. (Individually, each attempt had favourable signs, I think, 11.2.3.5, 49.5, 34)

Lesson #1 - I think in future, before rushing into action, it will be wiser to ask, is there anything needs to be done.

Lesson #2 - my timing really sucks.

I suppose there's too much mental stuff going on, and I need more focus on learning to use intuition.

But isn't that one reason why one turns to Yi, in order to get the timing better? Arrgh.

Somehow it's showing me I'm not using Yi properly.

Hi Pakua,

You've been around here awhile and your understanding seems pretty damn good to me. Nobody's perfect in their understanding of the Yi. The mere fact that you're reflecting on the accuracy of your interpretations demonstrates the correct disposition of 4. This is one of my favorite commentaries from Wilhelm: "A spring succeeds in flowing on and escapes stagnation by filling up all the hollow places in its path. In the same way character is developed by thoroughness that skips nothing but, like water, gradually and steadily fills up all gaps and so flows onward."

Well I'm still gnawing at this bone.

I don't understand why, since the overall tenor of the times, as displayed in hexes 41 and 5, was to wait and hold back from any advances, and to accept a decrease, why would I get seemingly favourable responses such as 11.2.3.5, 49.5, and 34 when I chose to ignore the 41 and 5 advice and press ahead anyway. It seemed to me that those two sets of hexes are not consistent.

I suppose one way of looking at it would be, the overall times are not for advance, but if you insist, at least you'll be in accord with your inner self. I find that strange, for two reasons. First, it doesn't match the overall times. Second, I specifically asked each time, would this be a good thing to do, with the express intention of patching things up, and not only was that not successful, but I believe by going against the flow, it made things worse.

So I can only assume I was supposed to learn something there, but what? I asked Yi what was the purpose of that, why was it advising me to go on? I got 17.1.5.

Line 1 talks about leaving the gate, or communication outside. On the other hand, it also seems to be saying, it's time for change. Line 5 seems to be telling me that I was trying to get to the truth of things. Put the two together and I get, time for a change but here's the truth of what happened (at least, from my perspective!), which is interesting, because all my communication was along the lines of, it was great knowing you and here's what was going on with me.

Of course, it's possible I'm assembling this to fit my own perceptions. Anybody have any other opinion? And I'm not really sure that was a lesson, it sounds more like simply a description. What am I missing?

Sorry I meant 5 not 6 above.

Never mind, I finally figured out how to edit a post