An image... 64.1.2.6>51

Magnus · Jun 26, 2015

Hello there.

I was wondering what experience people have with asking the I Ching for an image? I just asked what is an image for X and me? and received 64.1.2.6>51 which is not quite what I expected. I was thinking that an unchanging hexagram might be the kind of answer I would get for an "image" since each hexagram has an image and judgement but am now having trouble piecing the image together from the lines and relating hexagram and the initial hexagram. Any advice/thoughts?

butterfly spider · Jun 26, 2015

I just got an image of a small boat launching out to sea in calm beautiful waters ...
But not understanding the perils that exist on the open water ...

Storms and high waves spring to mind. You are at the mercy of the sea (hex 51)

However the person you are with and who you look for help in all of this will guide and comfort you ..

Magnus · Jun 26, 2015

This is an interesting image, thanks butterfly spider. I do feel like there is a lot going on around me... plenty of unknown and such... but the person I mentioned in my question is good comfort and perhaps will be guidance though that isn't as clear in my mind.

Does this specify the type of relationship at all?

butterfly spider · Jun 26, 2015

My feeling if you want an image is that this person is quite a strong personality and will be a strong influence in the next little while

But I get a feeling from this reading that you do not really understand this person right now - that you oly see the calm waters where your boat is in right now

Magnus · Jun 26, 2015

This is intriguing. I can agree that I probably don't really understand the person though. I've tried consulting the I Ching because I feel confused about their presence/purpose of their presence. Interesting to see there might be something on the horizon that I haven't become aware of at this time.

butterfly spider · Jun 27, 2015

I got an image in my head of the film perfect storm where tuna fishers got caught out
I am not particularly good at interpretation but the image may be of help

It would be interesting if anyone else had imagery from this reading...

Trojina · Jun 27, 2015

I am not particularly good at interpretation

You say this quite frequently but remember interpretation is very individual. It isn't the case that one person holds the whole key to 'what it means' and another person doesn't. I think you should be confident in your own thoughts, even if people disagree with you, (which they/we will at times because it's a discussion forum after all), because if you have been using the oracle in your daily life then your thoughts are valuable IMO. I also think answering others here is a real fast track to learning more because when you answer you have to think more deeply in order to put your thoughts across and so on.

It would be interesting if anyone else had imagery from this reading..

I was wondering what experience people have with asking the I Ching for an image? I just asked what is an image for X and me? and received 64.1.2.6>51 which is not quite what I expected. I was thinking that an unchanging hexagram might be the kind of answer I would get for an "image" since each hexagram has an image and judgement but am now having trouble piecing the image together from the lines and relating hexagram and the initial hexagram. Any advice/thoughts?

I like Butterfly's image....this is what it looks like. 64 setting out to make a crossing of some kind....So you are in the midst of crossing (64), when a storm comes up !(51) As lines 1 and 6 move I feel the 51 is very central to the reading. You'll be fine as long as you stay calm and don't drop your chalice.

It sounds exactly like what Butterfly said doesn't it ? I think there certainly is an element of the 'Perfect Storm' here. You could get caught out if you hold too fast to certain assumptions while you are still making the crossing, but not if you stay open to how things develop.

Oh one quick way to get the overall picture from a reading is to take the two hexagram names to make a sentence. here we have 'Not Yet Across's Shock'.

Tim K · Jun 27, 2015

Wilhelm:
64.1. He gets his tail in the water. Shameful.
38.2. One meets his master in a narrow lane. No error.
21.6. Has the neck in a wooden collar so that the ears disappear. Misfortune!

Richmond:
64.1 We are in transition so it is essential to keep moving, if we stop to consider our position we get submerged in where we are and the transition ceases.
38.2 We come to realize something quite suddenly and cannot escape from it, there is nowhere to go (our lord is the one we must follow). We meet him coming the other way but it is good to see truth when, or particularly when, it is going the opposite way to the one we are facing.
21.6 The tao shows our inability to understand what we are feeling and this line shows that we are accepting this as a way of being.
...
we bring upon ourselves a burden which stops us from hearing what the tao, our circum*stance, is saying to us.

The short story goes:
The relationship is developing and changing, you go along with it at first but then the street makes a turn and you see something unexpected.
If you drop your old attitudes and accept it all will be fine, but Yi gives you a warning-image of a wooden cangue/wet head leading to shock if you continue in your old ways.

Richmond h51:
Shock occurs when new experience appears too fast for our co-ordination to deal with it. Feeling cannot come up with a feeling and there may be rejection and disorganization (panic) or withdrawal of feeling (numbness). All this may be fleeting, as when we meet someone suddenly in a doorway, or profound.

Magnus · Jun 30, 2015

I'm finding there is great value in all these offerings each of you has made to my inquiry. Thanks! I've noticed change in the way the interaction seems to be... roles... so to speak. The change did seem kind of surprising/sudden, but I went with it or so I think. It appears things are flowing alright, the relationship is just seemingly shifted some. It's always been work related, but we seem to fluctuate in closeness. The fact that it's work related relationship, and I know she has a partner, makes me see a lot of limits and boundaries. But at the same time there continues to seem to be something significant about the person.

On another note, I haven't been feeling very positive today, and I asked "What do I need to know about the way I am feeling right now?" and I got 18.5>57. I know I've seen this result often lately for different questions, but am curious if there's a reason it may keep coming up as a result/message for me. I post it in this thread as I know it's been a result related to the same topic before, though I don't keep a regular journal of I Ching readings so I'm using the most recent question to see if I can seek some input. It talks about correcting the father's mistakes, which I may be viewing as too literal, as I find my mind trying to find mistakes in the father son relation or something that could be applied to current times. Maybe that would be the way to go about it, but I'm not sure. It also confuses me how it can be reappearing in response to differing questions. Any thoughts on this?

butterfly spider · Jun 30, 2015

I am not sure if the casting of 18.5 relates to your casting in this thread ...
It may be your mindset on how you deal with your relationship but I do not think it links specifically. I think the person you originally wrote about may be helpful but you need confidence to be able to know exactly where this help can be directed - not in a romantic direction.

When I get a ground-hog day hexagram (I got hex 63 in many guises for about 3 months) it was,looking back, a situation that I was battling against. Whatever energy I was putting in was essentially not helping. Best to stand back. I got this hexagram for completely differing questions and I only started to resolve the problems when I changed direction really looked at what was going on and moved my life forward.

I think your hexagram 18.5 feels very much as if you are a young boy talking to a wise old man with long white hair. You really respect this person and their words of wisdom. However deep inside you somehow feel that he was not totally trustworthy and it is only now that you are realising this. This was just something I thought of when I saw hex 18.5. I think it is to do with having the confidence to think for yourself somehow ...

X

Magnus · Jun 30, 2015

Wow, I just thought of something. I was told by someone when I was younger and they are older than me that anything and everything is possible... and perhaps at certain moments the I Ching finds it appropriate to tell me the 18.5 to suggest that sometimes not everything is indeed possible. It often seems that where there is a will there is a way, but maybe not always. In a relationship of any kind, it's a two way street so to have something be possible both people would have to be in synch with each other's thinking that the possibility exists. Do you think this whole "aha" moment might be what 18.5 was leading me toward thinking about?

Also, I just asked "What approach should I take in interacting with X next time I see them?" and the result is 17.1 > 45. In looking at other threads on this site, I find the result to be a positive one in the situation, but of course the information in other threads regards other questions so it can't fully be applied other than giving a general idea of the hexagram meanings. One thing I read was talking about the fan yao 45.1 which others in the thread had said wasn't important to consider. I'm not sure if this result ties back into my first question in the thread either?

Magnus · Jul 1, 2015

So I just had to contact X about something business related and got a response quickly basically saying sorry for being unable to help me at this time. I asked how do I interpret the response to the text and received Hexagram 16.5 > 45. Would it be saying that there's potential for help from X, but the help isn't able to be there at this time?

I followed up asking "What is the problem persisting as per 16.5?" and received the response 56.1.6>55. I'm not entirely sure how to interpret this. But reading a thread with that hexagram result, I feel that maybe it relates to me complimenting in what I see as an innocent way and she could see as problematic due to being in a relationship. I'm not entirely sure how a person should act around a person in a relationship, but I figured complimenting something that you like on them wouldn't be horrible to do. I'm not sure if there is any action I can take in this situation but asked "What would happen if I sat X down to apologize about what I see the problem being?" receiving hexagram 12 unchanging as a result which basically says to me an apology wouldn't accomplish anything (unless I misinterpreted).

weaver · Jul 1, 2015

My thought about your first reading (64>51) was that X's presence at this time acts as a catalyst in your life, to shake you into a new phase. I would have interpreted 18.5 as telling you that you need to trust yourself and have a better self-image ('use praise'). You may feel lost at times but what if that is, in the overall scheme of things, how you are supposed to feel? What if you accepted it and knew that you are learning whatever you need to at this time, even if that thing will only become clear later? I'd see 56.1.6>55 as a transitional phase, that soon enough you'll be over feeling like this - I mean, feeling unduly affected by her responses. And I would have seen 17.1>45 as suggesting that it's best to think of her as someone you can connect and share a moment with, but without any implications of a lasting or particularly intense relationship. In general, let go; see what comes to you without effort. (The last remark isn't based on a reading - just a separate suggestion.)

These were just my gut feelings when I read your posts in this thread, so you must go with your own.

butterfly spider · Jul 1, 2015

I think that the 18.5 is as Weaver suggests telling you to have more confidence in your own self. I think that the whole thread points to being seen as a wake- up call in some way. I am not sure if the thread is about the same person - but it seems to me that this person is useful to you and that she will help you. Not necessarily in the way you would like but then this in itself is a help to you.
Whilst I suggest moving on through this transitional phase I think you need to think about your next steps.

Tim K · Jul 1, 2015

In a relationship of any kind, it's a two way street so to have something be possible both people would have to be in synch with each other's thinking that the possibility exists. Do you think this whole "aha" moment might be what 18.5 was leading me toward thinking about?

I think yes it is.

Richmond:
18.5The praise belongs to the re-experience of our direction in a new way.

Here we are becoming less involved in the inactive feeling of line 2, less attached to it, and this is a turning point from decay to new growth. We prepare to take on a new cycle of activity, which in our usual progress is a development of what has gone before.
I think you have reached this corner of the street (38), and realized that you are going/looking at it the wrong way, combined with that

16.5: There is illness but not death.
As we become less aware of what our intuitive feelings are doing we are more likely to be unaware when there is change, when something new arises,
so we are more likely to carry on with old feelings when they have lost their vitality.

and 17.1 that speaks about standard being changed;
I think you need to find a new approach to all of this. Let go to just being friends maybe?
Or something else, but continuing this way won't do you any good.

Magnus · Jul 4, 2015

butterfly spider said:
I think that the 18.5 is as Weaver suggests telling you to have more confidence in your own self. I think that the whole thread points to being seen as a wake- up call in some way. I am not sure if the thread is about the same person - but it seems to me that this person is useful to you and that she will help you. Not necessarily in the way you would like but then this in itself is a help to you.
Whilst I suggest moving on through this transitional phase I think you need to think about your next steps.

What could "next steps" look like, butterflyspider?

ashteroid said:
I think yes it is.

Richmond:
18.5The praise belongs to the re-experience of our direction in a new way.

Here we are becoming less involved in the inactive feeling of line 2, less attached to it, and this is a turning point from decay to new growth. We prepare to take on a new cycle of activity, which in our usual progress is a development of what has gone before.
I think you have reached this corner of the street (38), and realized that you are going/looking at it the wrong way, combined with that

16.5: There is illness but not death.
As we become less aware of what our intuitive feelings are doing we are more likely to be unaware when there is change, when something new arises,
so we are more likely to carry on with old feelings when they have lost their vitality.

and 17.1 that speaks about standard being changed;
I think you need to find a new approach to all of this. Let go to just being friends maybe?
Or something else, but continuing this way won't do you any good.

Hmm, a new approach. Just being friends sounds like the only option, isn't it? Leaving the interaction/relations as is, and just going with the flow in the moments that we're in the presence of one another might be considered an approach, and may be exactly what I need to do. I want to say, people would notice changes in how others act, so if I were paying less focus to her than she'd probably react to that in one way or another. That's not to say I'd benefit from being rude or ignoring her, just being less close than before perhaps.

Magnus · Jul 11, 2015

I'm wondering if it's wrong to ask a similar question twice... with a fair amount of time apart? I just decided to ask "What is the overall image for X and my situation?" and received 7.3.5>48 which is seemingly completely different from my original question in this thread but about the same person. I guess I'm wondering if both answers are relevant or not?

butterfly spider · Jul 11, 2015

I think that hex 7 is about something hidden waiting - and hex 48 the well is about things hidden
It is hot today and my brain is feeling fried so maybe I am making no sense ...
However I think that the answer is telling you to keep your deepest feelings hidden somehow...
But I am thinking of something beneath the surface too ...

I am getting bottles if lemonade in a container hanging in the well bucket keeping cool
Xx

Magnus · Jul 11, 2015

Hmmm interesting about keeping hidden, or something beneath the surface. It is hot today, so maybe harder to think straight. I have some

I decided, for the fun of it to ask two questions....

What are the effects of keeping feelings re: X, hidden? 42.1>20

What are the effects of sharing feelings about her with X? 13.1.4>53

I'm not getting a strong sense of whether either of these would be more beneficial than the other... Or are they both leaning toward sharing, being open? I know sometimes the interpretation is that the I Ching is answering a different question than that which was asked...

butterfly spider · Jul 11, 2015

I read your posting twice also your questions

Maybe what the I Ching is saying is that there is something in the equation that is not revealing itself - or there is something you are choosing to ignore. Either way your query had something to do with this not so much what you should do with your feelings more to so with something that is there. Remember that a well is not moveable - it's position and location are static. Perhaps the hidden aspect of this is something that you cannot change - whatever you do
X

Magnus · Jul 11, 2015

What is the hidden aspect regarding X? 18.5>57

I feel like there's something to this result that I may not be getting since it keeps coming periodically. I'm not sure what it is, obviously, or else I wouldn't feel inclined to mention it for the second time in this thread. It has had me thinking that maybe the way I look at things is through the old train of thinking I grew up with and that isn't beneficial to me, but at the same time, maybe it's something else.

Seeing as X is going through to be in a profession requiring licensing and such, and I was headed toward a different profession that requires licensing and such is something to do with the whole thing. I know I've been reminded of my experiences relating to where X is now, but not sure I really want to go back to that as I feel that being "boxed in" by registration and licensure with a body is somehow separating me from the general population in a negative way. Perhaps this whole relation is something to do with this connection which I maybe try not to focus upon.

Tim K · Jul 11, 2015

7.3.5 → 48

Richmond:
7.3 The army waggons carry corpses. Misfortune.

The past is dead, it cannot change to meet circumstances and the warrior requires spontaneous reactions to avert disaster. This is our situation also; our progress depends upon our present awareness, not rules we have learned.
Here we become less active in a situation which requires activity. We are perhaps applying a rule we have learned which is against aggressive action, some conditioning. No rule applies to all situations and what we need in action is spontaneous response as well as experience to guide us. Experience comes from the dead past whereas the present is alive and changing.

7.5. Wild beasts in the field. There is advantage in catching them. No error.
The elder leads the army and the younger carries corpses. Continuing brings misfortune.

For the inner interpretation the wild beasts are rampant autonomous feelings which we need to bring under control so that we do not commit errors. The elder is our older (past) experience which is in control of the situation while the younger and present experience is saddled with all these dead ideas or feelings. Continuing in the old way will bring misfortune.

Like in previous readings, you are missing something. The feelings are stale, the approach is outmoded, the old rules do not apply to this new experience.
Accept it, move on. Draw the water already

Magnus · Jul 12, 2015

I have been missing something, I've decided. In offering a cd to X once, I hadn't done my usual kind of thing where I would take time to just learn about her and learn what she likes and dislikes. It was a cd made by someone I know and I was giving people them kind of getting their name out and such but with X I kind of broke away from the path I was on of getting to know her and understand her. I suppose this is just involving understanding what she does and doesn't like even still, because when I offered it to her I do recall her saying she would take it but pointing out she liked a different genre of music than that cd happened to be. So I suppose maybe it's teaching that that approach didn't work and that a new path or something is to be followed... perhaps an apology at the right moment or something that would rectify any issues that have arisen from the action on my part of offering it to her without prior thoughtfulness.

Magnus · Jul 22, 2015

So I got an email today from X that indicated transitions for her that meant she feels unable to meet my needs in the coming months as she gets going with her new career, but she said she'll stick around for a month. I asked how should I react to the email and received 23.3.5. It's kind of a confusing reading because line 3 seems unauspicious, yet there's line 5 which seems to conflict as it looks to be auspicious. I'm having difficulty if it's correct or incorrect to think that maybe "the end" isn't necessarily a complete halt to my relations with her, but only an end to the employment aspect of relations with her. Does 23.3.5 indicate anything about change from one type of relationship to another? I feel like it can, but am not sure if it's me putting my wishful thinking into place or if I'm thinking realistically based on the lines.

butterfly spider · Jul 22, 2015

I think that your initial reading about the relationship still stands ...I really think that you should take care not to read too much into any new castings.
Just my opinion - not necessarily to do with the reading - just picking up on the thread feel
X
I think your initial trading was about setting off alone I think ... Letting go ... Setting sail...

Tim K · Jul 22, 2015

23.3 → 52.3 → 53
Crowley: Destroy, when need is - will not wisdom show?
Daniels: Sometimes it is necessary to break things.
Time to let her go.

52.5
Crowley: And, for the love of heaven hold thy jaw!
Daniels: Curb your tongue. Choose your words carefully.
Don't say anything, no need to prolong this.

Magnus · Aug 16, 2015

So she ended the connection, basically saying at the end that we'll probably stay in touch. But as it was an employment connection, and she resigned, it doesn't have to continue in any way. I still ponder that image of stillness and then a more turbulent situation that was described early in the thread, and it either seems to be me encountering ego/shadow, and acting correctly toward it so as not to run into issues ethically or whatnot, or maybe she was considered the calm within a chaotic period as plenty has gone on and she tended to be a person more easily relaxing to be around.

Anyway, in thinking about where things are now, I decided to ask two questions:

What are the effects of keeping in touch with X? 26.2.5>37 Some reading I've done on this one seems as though maybe it's not the best of ideas, but I still feel unsure if that is what it is indeed saying.

What are the effects of not keeping in touch with X? 34.6>14 Seems as though staying still will happen, but some of the readings I've been doing on the response give me the feeling that it's suggesting to remain in contact with her.

I'm curious whether a situation like this both questions are as relevant as each other, or would one be more than the other? Would other questions have been more effective to ask in terms of going forward how to move or whether to make a move?

butterfly spider · Aug 16, 2015

Hello
I have been looking at this thread as I commented initially ...
Just asking why you would want to continue contacting unless for work reasons.
Throughout your questions I feel that there is something else at play here - that has nothing to do with person X but more to do with you.

My feeling is that she has helped you in some way and let you sail off in your own - she has done what she can and it is now time for you to set sail to other desert islands

Xx

Magnus · Aug 16, 2015

I just feel the connection we have had is different from that I've had with anyone else. Perhaps I unknowingly cling to that which isn't going to happen or something, but there's always the what if we keep in touch, what might happen?

Tim K · Aug 16, 2015

From both readings I get a feeling that it is time to move on.

26.2 The cart is going nowhere without the axles.
26.5 Better stop now than suffer later. Restrain the impulse.

34.6 Like a goat entangled in a fence - realize that you are stuck. Take a wider view (14).
Wilhelm:
If we venture too far we come to a deadlock, unable either to advance or to retreat and whatever we do merely serves to complicate thing further.
Such obstinacy leads to insuperable difficulties. But if, realizing the situation, we compose ourselves and decide not to continue, everything will right itself in time.

An image... 64.1.2.6>51

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