I'm am applying for a doctoral program in Spring and want to know what my chances are of getting accepted. I am currently enrolled as a Master's student. I have straight A's and have received 2 commendations from professors, however I am having trouble getting one last letter of recommendation (which is worrying me).

I got hexagram 2, changing lines 2,3,6 changing to 18. So far the Iching has been incredibly accurate, I just have had trouble interpreting it. The lines of hexagram 2 seem to be positive.

What worries me a bit is 18? Repairing the damage? I'm not sure what this could refer to in regards to my education since so far my time at this university has been great! I have no conflicts with anyone and my grades are all A's. Could this possibly mean repairing damage to my life in general as in getting life back on track and in order? (I recently got out of a not so great situation relationship-wise and going back to school is definitely something that is improving my livelihood etc).

Any thoughts? As always it is appreciated it!

-Pink Panther

Hi Pink Panther,

I understand the impulse to ask Yi yes/no questions, I do it too sometimes. But I've learned over the years to be very careful in phrasing questions, and really it's pretty rare that yes/no is a useful structure for interpretation.

In your case, I think a better structure for a question on this topic would be something like, "What will come of my application for the Psy.D program at [X] University?" Or: "Please advise me on the outcome of my application for ..." Or: "How will my application be received?"

But, interpreting Yi's response to the question you actually posed-- and emphasizing that it is very difficult to accurately answer yes or no-- my own feeling is that this is a "Maybe, leaning towards no--or yes, you will be accepted, but it still isn't the right course of action for you to take". I know this is likely not the answer you're hoping for, and I apologize about that, but the lines seem to point that way. At the same time, they also seem to encouraging you to expand your vision beyond this program. There are other things for you to experience, perhaps, for your own growth and evolution. There are other things, perhaps with less prestige, that would be more beneficial for you and your path in life.

Line 2 of the Receptive is always difficult for me to interpret-- I've only received it once, and actually that was also in an academic context (if I remember correctly, about picking an adviser...). The Wilhelm translation is verbose. However, LiSe says “One accomplishes what one is or lives, not what one does.”--and that seems to be apt in your case. I think Yi is telling you that your worth is greater than this Psy.D program, or that there are greater things for you to pursue. Perhaps you are fixating too much on this program as your only course of action, when it's really not that important in the long run. This line is positive but also warns against careerism.

Line 3 is about humility and not taking credit for accomplishments, about working in the background towards completion of something without an eye towards one's own personal gain. Unfortunately in the context of an academic application, this doesn't read as particularly affirmative of an acceptance by the institution. But, it's auspicious in that it is telling you that if you are restrained and self-effacing now, you will accomplish much greater things in the future-- "If a man is free of vanity he is able to conceal his abilities and keep them from attracting attention too soon; thus he can mature undisturbed." (Wilhelm) and "He does not seek to have credited to himself things that stand accomplished, but hopes to release active forces; that is, he completes his works in such a manner that they may bear fruit for the future." (Wilhelm) To me this reads as the time not being quite right for you to be in this program. Or, perhaps it is just describing being in the program for several years, learning and incubating before graduating into the wider world? That would be a more positive take on it.

And finally Line 6... this line is the one that tips the scales towards "no" for me in interpreting your question, and influences how I've read the other lines. This line is about pushing forward when the time is not right, about taking on more than one can handle (for arrogant reasons), and about ignoring restraint and inviting conflict. And it speaks of injury. "If it attempts to maintain a position to which it is not entitled and to rule instead of serving, it draws down upon itself the anger of the strong..." (Wilhelm) and "Not accepting fate means one brings about a life full of difficulties. One does not only fight what happens, but more than anything else one fights one's own soul." (LiSe) This line seems to say that whether or not you get into this program, there are more important things for you to focus on. And that there is a danger of overextending yourself for arrogant and egotistical reasons that will lead to unhappiness.

At this time in my life I rarely get 18 in any form, but when I was younger and in school it came up for me often as I was struggling towards the right path for myself in the context of institutions. My sense of it in this reading is that you ought to seriously question your motivations for getting this degree. I don't think this reading is talking about your former relationship specifically, but since you brought it up, perhaps it is worth examining what role the ex-relationship plays in your pursuit of this course of study. Are you forging ahead with this Psy.D program as a kind of "rebound", a way of accomplishing something else that is prestigious and perhaps lucrative, because building the relationship did not succeed? As a way of proving yourself? A way of showing off?

You sound so upbeat and happy in describing your place in the program that I almost didn't respond as I didn't want to bring you down. But, I think Yi on the whole is doing you a favor by gently encouraging you to broaden your view of yourself and what your future holds.

Good luck, and please try to remember to update this thread with what happens!

Mulberry thank you very much for the in depth response. I appreciate your honesty. That's really what I'm looking for is honest, objective analysis not necessarily what I want to hear. And so far the Iching has been pretty helpful in the other situation as well.

I asked Iching, "What would some of the negative aspects be of pursuing this?" and I got:

Hex 4.2 -> 23

I am pretty sure I will get accepted into this school (just because my grades are good, its a relatively small school...others have told me that they are not that "competitive" simply because who would turn down a student willing to pay for a psy.d).

I keep feeling that this reading is going back to my ex. Maybe I am seeing this from too emotional of a standpoint or am trying to look into things but I can't help but feel that the Iching is encouraging me to go back to my ex despite difficulties (something that I both want to do, but at the same time don't). Line 2 "The man is gentle with the misguided and understands the hearts of women" feels like it is pointing at him, and the hexagram 23 suggesting that taking this course would end any chances of reconciliation? Am I looking at this too narrow minded.

I don't plan on withdrawing my application, I will continue asking the Iching more questions about this situation to gain more clarity.

Thank you very much for your response. Any additional advice on this would be greatly appreciated!

-Pink Panther

My take on this:
2.3/7.3 explains the hold-up with 3rd recommendation.
2.6/46.6 is the warning.
2.2 is the key advice.

2.2 be straight, forward and sincere. Straight-A student, honest, without some ulterior motives - that's you. Just be yourself and it will turn out ok.

2.3 Don't seek credit, probably you won't get that 3rd one, but it doesn't matter.
7.3 says why:
Crowley: Divided counsel - inefficiency!
Daniels: Leadership is lacking, resulting in failure.
Inadequate leadership, maybe he is too busy with other projects.

46.6 Wilhelm:
He who pushes upward blindly deludes himself. He knows only advance, not retreat. But this means exhaustion. In such a case it is important to be constantly mindful that one must be conscientious and consistent and must remain so. Only thus does one become free of blind impulse, which is always harmful.
Give him some more time (if I understand correctly, Spring is pretty far away, in March).
Or find another one.

h18, Richmond:
Nature:
Maturity of autumn; sap thickens, dries.
Decay of winter; form dissipates.
Quickening of spring; all is made new.

Human:
Our ways are fixed and move no more.
Allow their death and walk away in new country.

hmm h18 can mean that some conditions will change (probably about this 3rd recomm.), but also it can be literal indication of time - closer to spring you will get it, after/during the decay of winter.

Hi Ashteroid,

I spoke to the program coordinator and asked if by chance I couldn't get that last letter if I could just use one from my Master's application (it was less than a year ago...I started in January) and he responded, that we could look into that but that he wanted me to exhaust all options as far as getting a current letter of recommendation. I feel hopeful but still that tinge of uncertainty.

And wow I just reread your post again, and he is indeed busy with another project, which is why I am also worried. He is leaving for a month to California at the end of July for the whole month of August!

What do you think of the 4.2 turning to 23....makes me feel doubtful now that perhaps this is the wrong direction to be taking. I'm trying to get a clearer understanding. I'm even thinking now that perhaps the Iching is saying, pursue this as your passion, but don't expect "fame and glory" aka big bucks from this career path.

Thank you for the input and please any other advice/interpretations are welcome!

-Pink Panther

Also what sites/books do you all use for readings? I'm really interested in learning more about Iching and becoming more adept at understanding the readings. What books or websites do you recommend?

Thank you!

Yeah about 4.2 my first idea was - working with the patients, treating them kindly.
And then reading Wilhelm's comments just reinforced it:
He has the inner superiority and that enable him to tolerate with kindliness the shortcomings of human folly.
You will see all the dark-and-ugly secrets of mundane human life. (oh I know why, I've recently watched ' Hector and the Search for Happiness'). And you may find it boring after a while.

And option #2 - you can be down-selling yourself, maybe you could use a bit classier institution.

You should ask - How will I benefit from completing this course at that school, for balance.

Thanks Ashteroid. It's funny that you mention going to a "classier" institution. I tried applying for a superior institution but at the time they are all booked up or are not currently accepting applications for Spring. I am thinking of maybe transferring out eventually.

As far as getting bored or maybe more appropriately "burnt out" I currently work in a Mental Health setting as it is and it can be draining. However my reason for getting my degree is that I can work specifically and more directly with people (which can be both more rewarding but of course more draining). It certainly is a labor of love, LOL.

Thank you very much for the input. :bows:

I used to go to this site, but now I've written myself a program, that has Wilhelm', Richmond', Legge', Daniels', and Crowley's translation to speed-up the process.
Wilhelm @ deoxy.org

Legge @ sacred-texts.com
psychicscience.org/ching 4 translations here + random generator.

Clarity's member Bradford has published book.
Some users mention LiSe', and Hilary's book of course.

I also have Karcher' and Huang's books.

So you want to specifically work with people, it means I had a right idea.
If you haven't yet - watch the film about Hector Good fun.

Thanks Ashteroid. Yes I currently work with folks over the phone but would like to work specifically with Schizophrenics in person. I have done some volunteer work at a "schizophrenics anonymous" group and I love it so far.

Thank you again for the response and insight. I will definitely check out those sites and books.

-Pink Panther

Line 2 of Youthful Folly/Not Knowing isn't so bad really for an image of the negative aspects of pursuing this course... But hex 4 itself, and especially in conjunction with 23, give me pause. They seem to depict a situation in which you are not seeing what you're getting yourself into with this program-- whether that's debt, the actual work involved, your true level of interest... You are wearing rose colored glasses about something, and there will be an unpleasant (maybe mild, maybe severe) realization and change eventually (23/Splitting Apart). Hilary says about hex 4, "The young ignoramus steps out into the world, and finds it to be much bigger and more confusing than she ever imagined." Perhaps this program will throw complications at you that you aren't expecting, or maybe you'll find out the field itself is not that interesting or not that lucrative. Maybe you won't like working with schizophrenics and others with mental illnesses when it is a 40 hour a week job. 4 and 23 in conjunction implies a rude awakening of some kind, for better or worse. (It could be very mild.)

I also wonder if line 2 isn't explicitly Yi telling you to get your act together about the missing reference letter..."To bear with fools in kindliness brings good fortune." It's silly that there is this technicality of needing an extra letter (especially when you're already affiliated with a similar program, so they know you), but this line seems to encourage you to deal with it, for your own benefit or theirs, or probably both.

I still get the feeling that this is Yi somehow nudging you to explore other options besides this specific program. Whether that's taking more time to decide if this is the field you really want to be in, or whether it's trying to apply to other programs (maybe ones with better funding...) Both of these readings point to something being not quite right about this course of action.

And, as an aside, I don't think either of these readings are really about your relationship, and it muddies the waters a bit to assume that it is. In particular when you write this:

pink_panther said:

I keep feeling that this reading is going back to my ex. Maybe I am seeing this from too emotional of a standpoint or am trying to look into things but I can't help but feel that the Iching is encouraging me to go back to my ex despite difficulties (something that I both want to do, but at the same time don't). Line 2 "The man is gentle with the misguided and understands the hearts of women" feels like it is pointing at him, and the hexagram 23 suggesting that taking this course would end any chances of reconciliation? Am I looking at this too narrow minded.

Click to expand...

I feel like waving my arms and shouting, "Noooo! Don't go down that path!" You asked about this Psy.D program-- stay in the bounds of that in terms of the interpretation, or everything gets muddied. Yes, sometimes Yi answers about something that is not specifically what you asked-- but not twice in a row usually, and not in a way that is so specific. That's you, I think, deciding you'd rather look at this complicated and not wholly positive reading in the context of something already damaged (the relationship) than the context of something that appears fresh and untainted (this Psy.D program).

Also, I don't think you should consider withdrawing the application. Not at all. This reading leads to me believe you should continue the application (fulfilling all parts of it, including the necessary letters), while simultaneously examining all aspects of it closely and critically (including finances, your fellow grad students, the debt, the program itself, your future advisers, post-grad employment stats), and perhaps also exploring other possible programs or paths to take.

Thanks for the additional Mulberry. The biggest regret I can foresee is the debt. When I am done I will essentially have a monthly payment of close to $800 a month to pay off those student loans, which is quite steep considering this career may or may not prove to be lucrative. All things to definitely consider. The program takes on average 5-7 years to complete, so there is really only one way to see if this is a good fit and is to get my feet wet and see how it goes.

I will continue to explore other options/schools/programs and see if there is a better fit for me. In the meantime I will see what happens with this application.

I'lll keep you guys posted! Thank you again! :bows:

I see 18 and 23 as working with mental decay and split-personalities.

Oh dear. The $800 a month in debt payments down the line is frightening for a program with no guaranteed employment (by that I mean, it is not an MD degree!). Hearing that, and seeing hexagram 4, I'm inclined to read 23 as a risk of bankruptcy. 23 can imply real upset and suffering. What would your expected income level be after finishing this program? What's the high end, what's the low end, and what's the reality for your area? Would you expect to make at least $800 a month more than you are making now? How old are you and how many years can you expect to work after finishing? How many years will it take to pay off the debt, and how old will you be when you're done? (These aren't questions for you to answer publicly, but to consider seriously for yourself). Taking on that much debt and getting Youthful Folly in combo with Splitting Apart as a response to a question about the negative aspects of this course of action... That would give me the willies about it, big time.

I also want to clarify that I know there is a more positive reading to be had from the 4.2->23 casting-- it could show a young student learning to be more mature and finding reception among older, wiser people (4.2), leading to a sloughing off of old, unneeded identities and practices (23). But you asked what the negative aspects of pursuing this program were, and in that light, 4.2->23 implies ignorance about something that will lead to a split, a loss of some kind, or a stripping away. It could still be good for you in the long run-- a time of personal growth and letting go-- but it also implies some degree of suffering and perhaps belt tightening. At any rate, I think you need to ask carefully considered questions about finances before committing to the program. Good luck!

Ashteroid, that is an interesting perspective! You may be right.

Mullberry, I am in my late twenties, and am currently making pretty good money. The prospects of making enough to make the monthly payments are actually excellent because I plan on continuing my current job and working as a therapist part time while I build my practice, but at any rate I will definitely keep in mind the warnings that seem to be coming from this hexagram and your advice. (it is good advice)

I won't be able to live high on the hog, but I think if I continue living modestly I will be ok.

Thank you both!

Hey guys just wanted to give an update on this situation.

So yesterday out of the blue my professor replies and says he would be more than happy to write the letter of recommendation for me. So so far it looks promising that I will get the documents I need. Only set back is the program director seems a bit befuddled and seems to be having trouble keeping track of my paperwork/application. I'm thinking of going down there in person next week and speaking with him directly to turn in all the paperwork again and make sure everything is in order.

I asked I ching what would happen now that it looks like I will get the final missing document and got

Hex 33.6 -> 31 "Spacious retreat is nothing unfavorable, there is no need to doubt."

Is I ching recommending I just back off and stop stressing?

Any thoughts/ideas are appreciated as always. :bows:

Yes just back off and stop stressing

Richmond:
When we identify ourselves with the life force we become one with our circumstances and so yield perfectly where appropriate without opposition anywhere.

Wilhelm:
Inner detachment has become an established fact, and we are at liberty to depart. When one sees the way ahead thus clearly, free of all doubt, a cheerful mood sets in, and one chooses what is right without further thought. Such a clear path ahead always leads to the good.

Cheerful retreat indeed.