Thank you to those who have generously indulged me the last couple of weeks in what started as the 59>29 conversation. I was struggling with my relationship that has been on hiatus. Whereas just a month ago I asked about our 1-3 month outlook and received 53.1.3>42, life has certainly changed since then. But then again, you've all taught so much about reading hexagram's since then, perhaps if I went back to that one with what I know now I would see the roots of my worst nightmare which has now occured.

I asked about writing a specific letter that I had in mind and received the 59>29. I became clear that communication was needed, but perhaps not that letter. I spent time in meditation and reflection. I asked what would be the most appropriate action for me to take in this situation (Thanks Val) and I received 49>25. This helped clarify for me a new and wider perspective about what was happening with us and what I wanted to say. I wrote a new letter (I now see that perhaps I should have waited longer until a thrid option emerged? Oh well...) I asked what would be his response to this new letter and received 55>8. Then as a last minute suggestion I asked about the effect of the relationship if I send the letter and received 34>43. I was confident about moving ahead.

I sent my very clear, short, beautiful (if I do say so myself) and sincere letter yesterday. His response, which came all too quickly, was that he appreciated the letter, but felt it better that we not see each other. Also, he said that since we've been on hiatus he has met someone he's interested in pursuing a relationship with. He wished me well in my future.

OUCH. I feel like an idiot. How could I have thought a hiatus was anything more than a fancy breakup? I was not expecting this at all, and I can only ask myself why I wasn't expecting it? Well, I really wasn't. As you might expect, I'm hurting, very disappointed, and shocked about the new person in his life. I have not responded to his message, and do not intend to. It feels to me there is nothing to say.

I've asked Yi however what the most appropriate attitude is for me to take with him at this time (other than staying far away and moving on?) and received 54.4>19. Well, of course I need to subordinate myself, what else could I do? But the line suggesting to wait, followed by Promotion is confusing. So to put flame on the fire, as I asked What is the path in his other relationship? and received 44.5.6>32. Hmmm, well, if he's got a hot, sexual thing going with this other woman that will endure, why am I being advised to subordinate, wait, and then receive a promotion? I asked what the outcome will be if I follow the advice: 26 unchanging. And if I don't follow the advice? 30 unchanging. Finally, I asked what kind of relationship he and I are inteded to have? 42.1>20 and, how he feels about me? 1.4>9.

Okay, I think I need to go cry for awhile now. Thanks.

Dear Malka,

I can imagine how you feel. I am feeling sad for you.

About 19: it is not promotion, but accepting people or things in their totality, the way they are, without projecting your own feelings on them. 'Nearing' closer and closer to the reality or the other.
LiSe

Malka, just read your post on the other thread. What can I say ? "Sorry" is about all I think.
That post I wrote, probably the last thing you need right now.

I'm also sorry that its turned out this way, but at least you had the courage to find out the truth.

As far as 54, line 4 goes, could it be that Yi is maybe referring to someone else coming into your life (even though you asked about him) I don't think it means you must subordinate yourself, rather that you are already in a subordinate role in this matter - but if you hold back, maintain dignity, there will ultimately be a good outcome.

Malka,

Sorry to hear about the break-up.

Take your time and look after yourself.

Best wishes,

Mick

Hi Malka,

IMHO, your 54>19 is not about the recent relationship with the cad, it's about the best way to conduct yourself in your new, just over the horizon, relationship with Prince Charming. What, you say you can't see the horizon because of the clouds? Believe me, you will. BTW, you definitely had it right when you said there was nothing left for you to do about the last relationship, it's over! Go out and buy yourself a new outfit, maybe even throw in some of those Manalo Blahliks(sp?) that Val is so enamoured of, and have a night on the town with a close friend.

You have my deepest sympathies concerning your present emotional state: Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, wore it out! But, it DOES get better over time. Honest!

Someday you will really appreciate the toad for the very valuable lesson you have learned. And, you have learned one, it's just hard to decipher at the moment.

Namaste,
Leonard

Malka...

I'm sure you've already enjoyed this email over and over...as I have. My poor sister-in-law, Queen of Email Forwarding, in her doting old age, has sent this to me about three times now. But I think it might be just the tonic you need at the moment, and I'm sure there are others here who don't have Jewish mothers, sisters or bubbies to forward this to them and, consequently, will miss out if I don't post it.

JEWISH BUDDHISM

*The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single oy.

*If you wish to know The Way, don't ask for directions. Argue.

*Take only what is given. Own nothing but your robes and an alms bowl. Unless, of course, you have the closet space.

*Let your mind be as a floating cloud. Let your stillness be as the wooded glen. And sit up straight. You'll never meet the Buddha with posture like that.

*There is no escaping karma. In a previous life, you never called, you never wrote, you never visited. And whose fault was that?

*Wherever you go, there you are. Your luggage is another story.

*To practice Zen and the art of Jewish motorcycle maintenance, do the following: get rid of the motorcycle. What were you thinking?

*Learn of the pine from the pine. Learn of the bamboo from the bamboo. Learn of the kugel from the kugel.

*Be aware of your body. Be aware of your perceptions. Keep in mind that not every physical sensation is a symptom of a terminal illness.

*Breathe in. Breathe out. Breathe in. Breathe out. Forget this and attaining Enlightenment will be the least of your problems.

*The Tao has no expectations. The Tao demands nothing of others. The Tao does not speak. The Tao does not blame. The Tao does not take sides. The Tao is not Jewish.

*Drink tea and nourish life. With the first sip, joy. With the second, satisfaction. With the third, Danish.

*The Buddha taught that one should practice loving kindness to all sentient beings. Still, would it kill you to find a nice sentient being who happens to be Jewish?

*Be patient and achieve all things. Be impatient and achieve all things faster.

*To Find the Buddha, look within. Deep inside you are ten thousand flowers. Each flower blossoms ten thousand times. Each blossom has ten thousand petals. You might want to see a specialist.

*Be here now. Be someplace else later. Is that so complicated?

*Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkes.

Cheerio the noo,

Val

Dear Malka,

I am so sorry. Who knew? I didn't, for one, and I wish I could have done better.

I agree with Leonard and Louise that 54, line 4 isn't necessarily about waiting for him. It's more to do with waiting beyond what 'ought' to happen, for the arrival of something truly great, that comes in its own time. Sometimes, Hexagram 19 is simply the arrival of more wholeness and confidence in yourself.

By the way, I'm quite sure that you did no harm at all by sending the letter.

About all your other readings since his message...

I think that you may have reached the point where you're asking too many, trying to wring sense out of a situation that is really only going to make sense in its own time - as a few wise people here have been saying. The answers seem to move further from your specific questions as you go along, and more into the realm of advice, whether you were asking for it or not. (Is that how others see it all?) The best thing might be to put Yi back on the shelf for a while, as you were thinking earlier yourself.

Malka,

I'm sorry...a hurting heart is the worst hurt and sorrow.

Don't worry about sending the letter, sometimes it is better to know than to wait in darkeness, and this speaks well of your openess and sincerity, you know???

That doesn't make the hurt go away though....

Deb

Thank you all very much. I had a lump in my throat as I read through your kind, supportive words in both threads. I do feel blessed to have found this virtual community. Thank you.

I also appreciate the feedback about 54>19. Sure, it would be wonderful to have the next opportunity to represent a promotion in my love life. And I know that until that happens I need to surrender (might this be somewhat similar to wait? More of any active kind of wait?) to this time in order to be ready for what's next.

BTW, someone had written to me that 19 was about funerals...do any of you have this source also?

Anyway, I hope deeply and sincerely to have a spiritual partnership someday, with someone who receives me, as I receive him, and as we muddle through together this journey of life. The kind of partnership I seek is one with two people willing to take the risk to trust each other with their most valuable posession: their hearts. Universe - consider this my declaration for what I'm ready to receive!

Val, the Jewish Buddhism is wonderful. Thank you for the smile. Hilary, you are correct! Yi goes on the shelf for now. However, I will welcome your recommendations for some books to round out my library. It seems that Karcher is one so many are quoting, yes?

Namaste and Shalom
Malka

Hilary - RE: your quote: "The answers seem to move further from your specific questions as you go along, and more into the realm of advice, whether you were asking for it or not. (Is that how others see it all?)"

Yes, its definitely how I see it. And, I agree with your suggestion for Malka to put it down (both Yi and her friend) and return.

Malka, I'm sorry to hear of your disappointment. It may help to remember that life is a wheel that keeps on turning. This may in some way feel like the end, but from it will be born something new. Remain hopeful, and also be on your guard. We draw to us those things we're really asking for when we ask for what we think we want.

Hilary - re your quote: My experience has been slightly different to the point that I reserve consultations only for very important turning points in my life.

I used to ask a question, get the answer, and then start question after question until I was totally confused. Then I realised something. That I had known the answer before I asked the first question, but I didn't like it. I was asking the 'Yi' for a more favourable answer, and when I didn't get it, I started the endless questioning. But although every time I tossed the coins, I got hexagrams - that didn't mean that the 'Yi' was talking to me, thus the confusion.

It was ignoring me - or perhaps saying: 'Stop pestering me over trivial matters. I answer you, and you ignore it. Go away. And perhaps try making decisions for yourself for a change.'

Any thoughts ??

Just chuckling at your last statement here, Frandoch. So true!

Thoughts? Umm...

Certainly a long series of readings can degenerate to a point where the answers read for all the world like gibberish. Usually I find that if I particularly want a quick, unambiguous answer that confirms what I want to do anyway, there'll be about 5 unintelligible moving lines. Actually, after a little basic training along those lines, I've changed the way I consult...

But I suspect that Yi doesn't say 'You're not listening to me, so I won't listen to you' all that often - at the very least, the one who speaks through the oracle has more than human patience and persistence.

What perhaps happens more often is that the conversation goes off the rails when someone asks questions based on a false interpretation of the previous reading. Yi can't give a straight answer to a question with a false assumption (literal example: 'how to act in my first week on the job?' when you're actually never going to be hired), so instead might comment on the misconceptions. But the odds of a frantic querent understanding that answer are slim indeed... and so communication comes apart, until in the end there's no way to know what the answers are about.

In other words, I think we're in danger of maligning Yi if we just say it ignores us. I reckon I'm usually the one who starts out by wearing a cangue that obliterates my ears...

Dear Malka,

I was reading your comments on the outcome of your relationship and I would like to share some ideas with you.
Firstly, you have all my sympathy and I totally understand how you are feeling because I had recently an experience similar to what you have had, when I have been burnt out.
Just to cut a long story short, the questions that I asked to the I Ching within that unfortunate episode led me to draw some conclusions about Hex 55 and Hex 34, especially regarding your changing lines (pretty much the same that I had).
I have a translation from a book in which Hex 55 is described with emphasis on abundance that ?can only be short-lived?. That might explain the response you had from your partner, when you received this reading.
Regarding Hex 34, especially the sixth line, it does not bode well for ?undertakings or for anyone hoping for recognition?. That might explain the effect of your letter, which ultimately ended up in breakup.

Actually, I came up with all those thoughts after everything has been lost, when I eventually had time for a reflection. I wish I had had a deeper understanding of the I Ching answers, which I was so anxiously waiting for.
You know what people say: ?in hindsight everything is crystal clear?.

I sincerely hope that this helps in your next readings,

All the best,
From a humble learner....

Hi Malka,

I feel for you. I, too, have been there. It's a painful experience, but when I looked back, I realised that that person wasn't right for me. I know that won't help at the moment, but hang in there, you'll be fine.

In my original post re 59>29, I felt that the 'Yi' was advising you to send the letter, even if it didn't produce the response you thought you wanted. It did, at least, bring closure. It brought you out of the un-knowing - yes, into a painful place, but you would have had to go there anyway.

Try to trust the process. It can be very difficult at times, but I've found that only when I give up searching, does the Creative provide what I need - even if that's not necessarily what I think I want.

I took the liberty of doing a reading about your current situation. You may slap me if you wish. I got 54.2.3. 55. It feels very positive to me.

Michael F.

Learner and Frandoch,thank you for your words and for your offers of insights.

Frandoch, no hurt feelings here about your interpretation. Not to worry. The point was, I needed the closure. I was just hopeful there would have been room for a conversation between us. What did people do before email after all? While my life is no different today than it was last week (we weren't and aren't together) I now get to let go of the ideas, the hopes, the possibility, etc. And yes, this is a painful part. A little scary also. (The hurt inside feels scary, but I know I'm really okay.)

About 55 being about short-lived abundance -- it sure was short! Less than an hour after I sent the email did he write back to me. I'm not even sure I noticed any abundance in that whole experience. Perhaps it was HIS abundance to have me express interest, and have this other woman also (if that's even true...) Oh well.

34 -- yep, I read that one wrong. I'm still figuring out changing lines. My primary book is the R.L. Wing I Ching Workbook and I'm learning that it isn't a very popular or recognized translation. So much of waht you've all shared with me is different than what's in that book. I need to buy some better books also, I think.

And Frandoch, the reading that you did for me: no, of course I won't slap you, but I will ask you to be more specific about what you asked, and to offer your interpretation! You can't get off so easily! Don't forget I recently asked about the most appropriate attitude for me to hold (regarding him) and received 54>19. I'm curious just what your question was that also produced the 54, and the short lived 55! Yikkes!

My sister who lives across the country and was a good listener tonight, convinced me to go out and buy a flat iron to straighten my hair. I did, and I now look like a different woman! So much fun for only $19.99! Yeah!

Life goes on. So I have no boyfriend, no job, and lots of time to work on my personal development. I'm going to consider this time a gift, and see where it takes me...

Hex. 19 is literally ?looking down?. It was used for returning to the valley from a mountain, and at that moment one sees one?s family deep down there, tiny, moving around the yard, and after the dangerous journey one loves them without any restriction of judgment. ?Oversee? is one of the translations of lin.

When someone is sick or dying, or has died, one also stands at the bedside, looking down without judgment. So another meaning of lin is mourning.

And four times I got hex.19 line 4 when one of our dogs died. The second time was when my own dog was very ill, and I asked what I could for her. The last time was late at night, and I was surprised, because no dog was ill. Next morning I heard that a very old dog had died at the exact moment when I threw the coins.
19.4 changes to 54.4: things don?t happen when you want them to, but when it is the moment for them.

So 19 certainly has to do with death, but with a special aspect of it.

LiSe

Dear Malka,

The experience that you had is so much similar to mine that I can?t help sharing with you my previous readings about my unfortunate episode. And, again, that leads us to Hex 54, the Marrying Maiden.
Regarding the changing lines ?and according to the translation I have been reading- the results are as follows.
The Marrying Maiden itself is about someone?s situation in which she (or he) finds herself in a lowly position, like a ?young mistress?. It is extremely important to think about that without prejudice, which requires a broader view. In ancient China, the metaphor of the marrying maiden describes someone who is truly happy in her position, accepting with joy the social rules.
The second changing line depicts a disappointed girl, left behind, but faithfully persevering in her solitary position. It might mean determination to keep your feelings towards the other person even in the most difficult time.
In the third changing line, the woman ?is enslaved? and although achieving her aim she finds the accompanying duties onerous or unfulfilling. It might mean eventually having her partner back but somehow circumstances prove to be quite difficult to bear.
Finally, in the fourth changing line the marrying maiden appears undecided. It seems to her that a withdraw (from the unstable situation) might represent an opportunity being lost. But there is a silver lining here because even if she decides to wait a new opportunity will present itself. That might be eventually meeting the man who is meant for her (being that person her former partner or another one). But for sure the deserved happiness will be achieved.

It seems to me that the uncomfortable and awkward position of the marrying maiden is reversible. That requires strength, determination and the inner certainty of what a woman really wants, in order not to be astray. Everyone in that situation should listen to the inner voice to arrive at a decision because the answer lies in the inmost heart.

Well, dear Malka, I do not know if Frandoch agrees with me and I am totally open to different ideas about Hex 54. I must recognize that this interpretation is based on my personal experience and results may vary depending on a different approach. But I hope this helps.

Learner

Dear LiSe...

Thank you for this bit of insight! Hexagram 19 is so full of possibilities I hadn't considered.

Dear Learner...

Why do you call yourself Learner? I've been curious about that for a bit now. Just as you showed in your post here, you have a good deal of understanding about the Yi and a good deal of wisdom.

Learner would be an appropriate name for anyone studying the Yi, or living life...period. Studying the Yi and living are lifelong learning experiences. We're all students. Though this thought has presented itself as possibility for your choice, I don't want to make any assumptions...and I am really curious...*grin*

Thanks!

Val

Hi Malka,

I wouldn't be so hasty in discarding Master Wing. When I used the Yi primarily for divining purposes I referred to his translation quite frequently, and found it to be spot-on. I have found it to be especially good for the line interpretation, also, if you are pressed for time, I have found that his translation is very good for an overall 'sense' of the situation.

Namaste,
Leonard

Dear Val,

Thank you for your sweet words, considering that I have been making so many wrong choices recently -if anyone can label a choice as right or wrong. I think that is the reason why I name myself as a learner, because it seems to me that the results I have been achieving are pretty far from the outcome that I had expected. *grin*
Actually, there is a long, long way ahead. But, trying to answer your question, I have been studying the I Ching for a while, although when I am emotionally involved my readings end up in failure. Well, here it comes the broken heart again? *grin*
That is another thing that I need to learn how to cope with. How to prevent my emotions getting through deeply in personal readings, making me not capable of foreseeing what I have already known?

Thanks
Learner

Learner...

*tight enduring hug*

Sincerely,

Val