YIKES...

Two similar posts following one upon the other. It doesn't surprise me in the least that I'm basically in the same place as Malka at the moment.

I've just been through an emotional cleansing...one of many more to come, no doubt, and been through a rainbow of emotions.

I've felt the anger at people I never dared feel before and held within for many years. I've felt grief for what they took from me...the ability to trust. I've felt remorse for striking out at someone who did not deserve that anger. I've forgiven myself for doing so. And, as a result, I've experienced that kind of love, where one trusts completely and fully, that I've never experienced fully before. <----WOW

As a result, I've let go of a lot of the past and am looking to the future as full of possibilities and the present to take the next step toward the right possibilities to make a brighter future for me.

I'm taking it one step at a time and asked the Yi what is my next step. They answered 58.1.3.4.6 to 57. I would love your input on this.

Thanks!

Cheerio the noo,

Val

Hi Val,

What follows may have come through me, but I am not the source. It?s offered with love.

<FONT COLOR="0000ff"><U>Hexagram 58 - The Joyous</U>

Key Characteristics: Serenity, Contentment, Encouraging.

Overview: This hexagram is about Joy. It is important to understand the difference between joy and pleasure. Joy is an inner feeling of peace and well being and is not dependent on outer experience. In fact, whether one is experiencing pleasure, or its opposite misery, in the outer world, one can still feel joy inside. Pleasure is the external satisfaction of ego-based desires, that is, gratification of the senses. If you are externally motivated, then outer events, over which you have little control, make you happy or sad. In other words, you are not in control, you are not independent. If you are internally motivated, then you can experience joy whatever is happening in the outer world. External events may still make you feel happy or sad, but internally you have a deep sense of peace and acceptance of ?what is?. Joy is characterised by inner strength and outer gentleness. You have developed to the point where you can now experience joy, that sense of inner peace which is independent of external circumstances.

Outer World: Use the power of gentleness in all your dealings. Whilst the ego may appear to gain short-term results from intimidation and aggression, these never last, and those whom we intimidate cannot be relied upon, for when we are no longer in a strong position and we need support, they will turn away, and who can blame them. When, however, we win people over with gentleness and goodwill, they will support us through difficult times.

Inner World: The pursuit of outer pleasures is damaging to our inner selves. This is because we are satisfying the demands of the ego, which are insatiable. Whenever we allow ego demands to take control, we not only stop growing, we begin to disintegrate. Our inner selves shrink, and if this practice is maintained, can withdraw altogether. Good fortune or misfortune become irrelevant because we are lost. We build up a karmic debt which has to be repaid before we can begin to grow again. Surely it would be better not to start down that road. Having cast this hexagram, you are well placed to experience joy yourself and to share the fruits of that joy with others. This hexagram shows the trigram Lake doubled. This suggests two sources replenishing each other, and that the ?wise? should join with the ?wise? to enjoy friendship and discussion of what really matters in life, away from the influence of the ?unwise?. In this way the furtherance of good is encouraged.

Relationships: This is a time when two people who are able to experience joy, can reach incredible depths of physical, mental, psychological and spiritual intimacy, totally free from selfish motivations and the ego need to control.

General: Whatever happens in the outer world, the joyous cannot be damaged. Practice gentleness, modesty, kindness and tolerance. The ego doesn?t know what these mean.


Line 1: YOU KNOW WHERE YOU?RE GOING - JOY AWAITS. You have the awareness and the ability to remain free of ego likes and dislikes. You desire nothing from the outer world. You already have it all inside. You don?t expect anything, you don?t desire anything. You can now enjoy the total freedom that joy will give you.

Line 3: YOU?RE INDULGING - DANGEROUS. You are ignoring your inner needs and indulging in outer pleasures. You are seeking diversions from your emptiness, and because of this, you are inviting ways of indulging your baser instincts. This path leads to misfortune. Stop. Examine yourself and you will find that ego is in control. Deal with this or suffer the consequences.

Line 4: HIGHER OR LOWER - IT?S UP TO YOU. You are torn. You are indecisive. Your higher instincts want you to pursue the path of the ?wise?, whereas your ego wants you to pursue the gratification of the senses. You have no peace of mind. One day you will realise that the pursuit of lower pleasures only leads to suffering. Then, and only then, you will make a firm decision to pursue the higher. All inner conflict will be resolved and you will experience true joy and real pleasure which has no opposite.

Line 6: EXCESS PLEASURE - NO PLEASURE. You are weak and you have succumbed to outer pleasures. You will find that you need more extreme pleasures to satisfy your ego, which will never be satisfied. This is the path of addiction. The result is destruction. Your life has no direction or purpose. You are like a boat without a rudder, at the mercy of external influences. The only way out is to return to the ways of the ?wise?.

<U>Hexagram 57</U>

Key Characteristics: The Wind, Directed Action, Subtlety, Perseverance.

Overview: This hexagram is about the penetrating power of the gentle wind as opposed to the effects of a strong wind which destroys everything in its path. The gentle wind penetrates into every nook and cranny. It is also about the fact that the dark elements which are rigid and forceful can be dispersed by the light elements which are gentle and flexible. A strong wind tends to continually change direction and stirs things up, whereas a gentle wind usually blows from one direction and has the effect of clearing the sky leaving things calm and serene. Because of this the hexagram suggests the way we should behave in order to bring about clarity and the dispersal of the ?unwise?.

Outer World: When faced with a difficult situation in life, the ego?s tendency is to use aggressive methods to force a resolution. Although this may produce temporary results, they will not be lasting. This hexagram shows that we should use gentle but persistent means to resolve our difficulties. We should decide on a goal, and then apply gentle penetrating methods to achieve it. In this way we will not be dissipating our efforts in many different directions, but applying a continuous gentle pressure in one direction. Try to ensure that your efforts are as inconspicuous as possible so that you do not cause alarm and resistance. Remember the gentle wind. Because it blows continuously in one direction, we tend not to notice it. Emulate this. Your achievements will be gradual and small, but they will add up.

Inner World: Don?t try to resolve any situation by attempting to satisfy your own desires. This would be the ego in action. If you do, you will be demonstrating your dependence on the situation, rather than your wish to influence it for the greater good. Use gentle penetration to eradicate the ?unwise? elements in you, then you will be ready to eradicate the ?unwise? elements in the outer world. If the problem lies in your inner development, it is probably because you are viewing yourself as separate from the problem, whereas separateness is an illusion. You and the problem are one. You are the problem and the problem is you. Once you can see that there is no separation, you will realise that there is no problem. The solution is to relinquish all expectations. Expectations are based on an unreal, ego-generated future, which doesn?t exist. You know your goal. Concentrate your thoughts on that goal in every Present Moment. Your gentle perseverance will produce results.

Relationships: In intimate relationships, gentleness is the answer to all problems. Make no demands. If you can both open yourselves to the gentle penetration of each other?s inner selves into the relationship, you will achieve what you want from the relationship.

General: In all areas, you know what you want. To achieve it, be gentle, but persistent.</FONT>

Michael F.

58, lake, the youngest daughter, doubled. 57, wood, the oldest daughter, doubled.
The joy of the youngest daughter, dancing. In the background the gentle wisdom of the oldest daughter. She watches her young sister with a knowing smile.

Youth and experience together, wisdom of joy, joyful gentle wisdom, hmm, I like it ...

Martin

Hello Val,

More ideas for you to pick and choose from:

Joyful Opening to Hidden Influences?
Giving expression to inner patterns?

I think that both sides of the coin - the hidden patterns seen only in their effects, and the unfettered expression and sharing ( ) have been part of your experience of late, so this is by way of a 'you are here' reading as well as where you go - expressing things you never knew were there. Lots of advice on how to share yourself.

Do have a look at what LiSe says on #57, if you haven't already. With 57 in the background for me this year, I'm finding it very helpful indeed.

I know you said 'next step' in the singular, but Yi's given you four lines. In itself that might be an indication that this is more complicated than you anticipated - or that many things are happening at once on different levels - or it might just indicate that you have opened up a wide palette of choices for yourself...

Line 1:
'Harmonious opening, good fortune'
This is 'Opening's Oppression' - that is, it points to Hexagram 47, which is strange. But I think LiSe has the answer - that harmony with other people starts with complete reliance on your own inner resources. It also follows on from 57, line 6 - so perhaps harmonious self-expression could be the solution to analysing yourself so much you lose self-confidence?

Line 3:
'Coming opening, pitfall'
This can on occasion be a general prediction - some future communication or sharing will be disastrous. But it's more likely to be advice - against locating your joy and self-expression in the future, maybe losing the present moment in the process. It could be the effect of having just too many possibilities. (Ah yes - LiSe calls this one 'expectant exchange'.)

If anyone wants to suggest the connection between this and Hexagram 43, I'm all ears...

Line 4:
'Haggling opening, not yet at rest.
Putting limits on the affliction brings rejoicing.'
The communication and joy is present, but you bargain and negotiate over its terms - perhaps trying to get every detail secure before committing to the exchange? This is driven by anxiety - it needs to be hemmed in, brought under control. In relation to #60 (which this is) - concentrate on its emphasis on what feels right, rather than what 'ought' to be.

Line 6:
'Drawing out opening'
An opportunity to be drawn into long-term exchange, gradually learning to dance with the tiger.

The patterns of change might give you something, too. The yang pattern is 30, Clarity - clear understanding, getting the message, and also caring for what supports the clarity. The yin pattern - the space that makes change possible, rather than the active force - is 29, Repeating Chasm: unconscious, unknown, unarticulated. The same pairing of outer/inner, visible/invisible, with the invisible in the supporting role.

Val, you and I indeed have some similar questions, and although what I have to offer isn't a Yi translatiion, I can offer up what's coming to me intuitively. I trust that you'll know if it's what you need to hear or if it's rubbish that's more appropriate to be set aside.

You are solid and whole just as you are, right now. The dangers of yesterday do not lurk at your door today. Your gift of vigilance and awareness may now be turned inward to light your own inner knowing, and are no longer needed to be focused outward as a protection from potential harm. Everything is okay. You are okay. As the truth of this centered and calm place lives with you in peace, you will begin to trust it more. Notice any tendency to rush into the world of ideas and fantasy (ideas about emotions are still ideas!) which was the only way of protection a little person had. These skills were needed then. Now, it's alright to stay present and to allow the joy of life to move through you. Somewhere inside you've tasted it, you know that joy is all there really is. To feel this, we need only be still with our simple breath (the wind.)

Also, my new book (I Ching for a New Age by Robert Benson) says that 58 is Sharing Himself, and 57 is At His Leader's Mercy.

I have a sense your engery at the moment of your writing swirling around the upper part of your body. If this feels true for you, consider a grounding activity such as meditaiton, tai chi, or even try some Bach Flower Remedies. I find that Rescue Remedy in particular is an excellent aid for times of confusion, grief, uncertainty, and fear. It can help us relax into the softness that is around us, always.

Please know that I'm holding you with light, love, many good thoughts.

Malka

Sorry Val, that I am not going to give an interpretation on this, except in the most limited sense. I think, on one and only one level of many, 57 teaches us to explore our inner demons. This is our personal life that no one else sees. 58 deals with how we express our inner demons in the outside world. This can lead to a true or a false sense of joy depending on the circumstances and the inner demons. Lines one and four are light, and lines three and six are dark, so here we have a balance between the inner or darker world, and the outer or lighter. The trigrams show expression that is intense. The nuclear trigrams show light and penetration. The light penetrates the deeper levels of the psyche and brings the joy of discovery and expression in 58. The nuclear hexagram is 37, the Family. It is within the family (those we are closest to) that we are most likely to express ourself. In 58 the expression can be intense.

Now, that beign said, on to Hilary's question about the relationship between 58.3 and 43. On the surface, the relationship isn't very obvious. Too often I have looked at the commentary to find relationships and come up empty. Here I am looking at the overall situation, and may be able to come up with a very limited answer. Both hexagrams are about expression. 58 expresses itself with joy, and 43 expresses itself truthful in a state of concern. The third line is at the height of the lower trigram of expression. This to me means more inner expression, which may or may not be significant here. However, the line is in the middle of the nuclear trigram Li, which means, yeap, clarity. It is also the lower line of the nuclear trigram Sun, or penetration. Here penetration leads to clarity. So in the inner world one becomes aware of things that need to be expressed. He/she comes to an understanding of what needs to be said. There is some danger though, as the third line is normally trying to enter into the domain of the upper trigram, in other words, associate with a higher level of people or circumstance. This line is in danger of being rejected by heaven or the higher powers. It is also in danger of expressing itself in a way that will brign retaliation. Since Tui double is expression doubled, or increasingly intense, there is some danger. Hence the connection with 43, where "it must be announced truthfully. Danger."

Gene

Who needs the I Ching when you've got Malka's intuition!

WOW!

Malka, I really don't know what to say...except maybe tell you what happened when I read your post. I didn't even get half way through when I had to jump up (literally) and grab a cig (the only addiction I have of which Frandoch spoke...*grin*) and run outside...in tears. The truth was overwhelming. It hit deep. I'd never looked at that part of it. And I sat there on the step saying to myself, "Yes Yes Yes it's true!"

And ohhhhh, Malka, what a difference it makes to no longer feel a need to protect myself! And oh how I love that little person in me that felt so unprotected when danger did come to her door. I'm holding her like she's wanted to be held for so long right now. We're feeling the joy of being loved...by each other. And we're at peace.

I know it sounds trite, but really...words cannot express how I feel about what your post has done for me.

It seems so small a thing to say at this moment, but thank you. I love you.

Val

Gene...

Thank you so much for taking the time to interpret this reading for me. I know you're very busy at the moment. I've never gotten 58 to 57 before, and it was important for me to understand.

Please see my post above to Malka to see just how on the money your intrepretation is. I didn't even get to read it though before it manifested itself in my life.

Intense is an excellent word for what I just went through. It was an intense breakthrough to say the least...and THEN I read your post. And then I sat here just amazed yet again at how well you interpret the Yi. You are a kind man and so generous of your wisdom, and I'm feeling very happy and grateful right now that I found you on this forum! *grin*

Thank you!

Val

Mr. Frandoch...sir (that is how one addresses a British teacher...isn't it?...*grin*)

Thank you so much for taking the time to interpret my reading for me today. As you know by now, it all went a bit deeper than addictions and dangerous pleasures, but that's okay. When a line doesn't ring true for me, I know that the Yi is merely using it to create an important relating hexagram and I'm not to take it seriously. However, I have some thoughts to share with you about pleasures...and choosing between them.

As you probably know by now, if you've read many of my previous posts, my pleasures are simple. They haven't always been, though. I'm living in the country at the moment where they are few diversions, and most my pleasures come from nature, my job, my neighbors and friends, and my family who are all far away. I do derive a great deal of pleasure from nature, but...

I'm from a very big city, Los Angeles, and I've always been able to find nature in the city. Jobs that I can enjoy abound in the city (I'm very fortunate to have one here), my family is in the city, and I am very much missing the diversions city life offers. I haven't seen the ABT dance in well over two years. I haven't been to the symphony or opera in that long. I haven't seen any of my favorite film actors in a stage production in eons, there's not a single art museum here, and I haven't been able to run out late at night...on a whim...for an order of edamame and sweet shrimp, or mousaka, or spaghetti bolognese, or...never mind, the list is endless...*grin*

And I really am missing that and have been wanting to get back to it...and other opportunities the city offers for advancement as well. That was, of course, the direction of my thinking when I posed my question to the Yi. There is a question of a choice of different pleasures...the difference isn't between higher and lower, however, so again that's another part of the lines that I bypassed as irrelevent.

The Gentle Penetration is where the Yi was going...as the way to the inner joy and peace that you spoke of, and Malka's loving post did just that...gently penetrated to the very part of me, the heart of me, that was needing my love and attention.

Thanks again Mr. Frandoch...sir! *grin*

Val

Martin...

I am truly amazed. Read Malka's post, my response to her, and your beautiful post again. That's precisely what the Yi was saying. I repeat...I am truly amazed.

And, Martin...I like it too!

Thank you!

Val

Hilary...

I'll bet you thought I forgot all about your post. Not the case at all. I was saving my response to you for last.

First of all, I want you to know after I got the 58 to 57 this morning and decided to post here on your forum for better understanding, the Yi answered...48...*grin*

In your post you said, "...harmony with other people starts with complete reliance on your own inner resources" <--- YES! After reading this, I told the Yi I have all the love I need right here...within...and oodles and oodles to spare and share, and they answered...48...*grin*

Then you said, "An opportunity to be drawn into long-term exchange, gradually learning to dance with the tiger." And I said to the Yi, "I can do this now!" and they answered...48...*grin*

I also loved your summing up paragraph. Is that not exactly what happened tonight?!?

Now, Hilary, the reason I wanted to post to you last:

The thing the Yi is saying with 48 three times in a row is what I want to tell you. I know the Yi is talking about your forum. Your forum is THE Well. We can sit here and argue until we're purple about whose interpretation is the best, but what it really boils down to is there is merit in every interpretation. There is something to gain from every individual who has gone to the effort to study the Yi and has been generous to share their learning and experience.

You have created and are the guardian of a virtual Well from which have I drunk and been nourished many times, where I have gathered with others of like mind, where I have experienced immeasurable life-altering growth in the short span of just seven months. Again tonight...I'm at a loss for words. There just are not words to express how very fortunate I feel and grateful I am to you for this opportunity...to learn all I have about the YiJing, to have met and enjoyed the many people I have, and to have been able to profit from your and their wisdom to break through the huge obstacles that I have.

Like I said to Malka, I know this all sounds trite, but thank you. I love you.

Val

Now I'm off to reread Malka's questions and answers to see if I can't glean any insight in my dreams tonight, so that I can post an early morning response. If I can give her even a tenth of what she's given me, I'll be happy.

Hello Val,

I'm amazed as well! One never knows when pressing the "send" button what will happen next. I'm very happy to learn my words offered some insight that led to a breakthrough for you. It also feels very good to be so appreciated by your generous spirit of receiving.

Thank you for your attentiveness to my posts in the other thread, but please feel free to not worry about me just now. Whatever time you may need to be with you is very much understood!

I look forward to continuing our dialogue and nurturing what is certainly emerging as a lovely friendship.

Sweet dreams,
Malka

Hi Val,

Thank you for your reply, and for sharing something of your life.

As for ?Mr Frandoch Sir? - Michael F. or Frandoch will suffice. The custom in the UK of teachers being addressed as ?Sir?, and the requirement to address pupils by their surnames, never sat easy with me, so I didn?t conform, which got me into ?hot water? with my superiors. But strangely, addressing pupils by their forenames, and allowing them to do the same with me, contributed to the fact that I never had discipline problems. Mutual respect perhaps.

Your reply gives me a wonderful opportunity to explain about my book - what it is, what it isn?t, who it?s for, and who it isn?t for, and incidentally to say that it will shortly be published, initially as an e-book. It is in final edit, layout and design as I write.

All my adult life, I?ve been involved in counselling work, first with pupils and their families. I also work with victims of personal trauma - child sexual abuse, rape, battered wives etc. My personal experiences have helped me to empathise with those victims, and they are able to draw on resources from me, which enable them to rebuild their lives, and to convert from victims to survivors. It?s part of my joy of being alive. I also run groups and workshops in the areas of meditation, spirituality, self-actualisation and so on.

In all this work, I have used the Yi extensively, and people have shown an interest, and wanted to know more, but they?ve been put off by the arcane language and obscure references of much of the available writings. I was often asked to recommend a book that beginners could use. I searched long and hard, and found some books that satisfied part of the need, but nothing that really spoke to them. From our discussions I knew what that book should be like, how it should be formatted. One night, I was awakened at the usual 3 a.m. with the message ?Write it yourself !!? I felt that would be impudent, to say the least, and I wouldn?t know where to start, so I didn?t.

Some time later, another early hours? awakening: ?Is this going to be another example of you wasting years before you do as I suggest ?? You are not doing this alone, so get on with it.? So I did. I would select a hexagram, or even a part of it, and read everything about it that others had written. I did that last thing at night, and let it gel, and the following evening I would just sit down and type. It worked better when I didn?t think about it, when I let it flow - almost automatic writing. I frequently referred back to the Yi for Her opinion, and occasionally got a slapping for letting my ego intrude.

So - it is not a scholarly work. It?s not for scholars, of which I am not one. It would not be awarded 5 stars by Steve Marshall - I doubt if he?d even read it, let alone review it. It?s not even original. I?ve drawn on other people?s translations, interpretations, insights etc., and at it?s simplest, it?s just a reformatting. Hopefully, something of me is in there. Because of all this, the hexagrams are necessarily generic, and therefore much of it will be irrelevant, but hopefully there will be little nuggets that speak to people. Those who?ve been given copies of the work have found it useful, as an ?easy to use? tool for guidance at turning points in their lives.

That?s all it is. It?s not deep, it?s not profound - it?s an access point for newcomers, and hopefully some of those newcomers will be inspired to look elsewhere for more.

Thank you again.

Michael F.

Hi Val,

Nigel Richmond (I mentioned him in another thread, about trigrams and planets) calls hexagram 58 "It comes!".

Part of his text (I replaced he by she and his by her):

"
Nature
A sunrise that excites the soul.
A day that satisfies it.

Human
She knows in her fibre
the power to create.
She knows in her body
the motions of creation.
How could she not
enjoy her creation? "


Wow ..

Martin

Martin...

Thank you. That's very beautiful. I am intrigued about Nigel Richmond now and did a quick search on the internet. This book review by Steve Marshall is all I could find:

Language of the Lines: Nigel Richmond

"One of the best contemporary attempts to say something original. Richmond concentrates on the internal oracle, what it feels like inside, as opposed to what is going on in the external world. Many times it strikes a chord, often highlighting a concern from an unexpected angle. There is no moral tone to contend with, everything is in terms of subtle drifts of feeling. Out-of-print, though it often turns up secondhand. Published in 1977 by Wildwood House, London."

O-o-p...dang!

Cheerio the noo,

Val

Michael F...

At last we learn the story of your decision to write your book. I'm so happy you shared it. It's fascinating. Thank you!

Val

Anyone...

I'm looking for this book, Language of the lines : The I Ching Oracle, by Nigel Richmond now. There's little opportunity for getting it second-hand in this town, and I went searching on the net.

Amazon.com says I can get in line to order it second-hand when it becomes available with one of its sellers. There is no ballpark on price offered, however. Would anyone care to venture a ballpark range on this? And does anyone know of a better way to find a second-hand copy?

Thanks!

Val

Val-
This is one of those rare instances where a writer takes off with his own idiosyncratic, fanciful, no-Chinese interpretation of the Yijing and it works well enough to make a real contribution to Yixue (Yi studies). It's worth having. If you will settle for a xerox copy (reimburse copy & postage cost) write to me offline. (One time only offer).
brad
[email protected]

Hi Val,

Yes, it's worth having. But difficult to get nowadays (I bought it a long time ago).
I'm glad that Bradford can help you out.

Martin

Val:

I was able to find one, the only one, somewhere, that is selling for $130.00. (I may buy it myself...)

This should give you and idea of what Amazon may come up with if they find it...

Cheers,

Luis