Hi to all! I'm a new member - what a lovely site!

I wonder if anybody would be kind enough to help with the following query? I've just started reading 'The New I Ching' by Lillian Too, which is about the Plum Blossom Oracle. All went well until I reached the instructions for the Later Heaven Arrangement. They say that to work out each of the two trigrams which form the hexagram relating to one's query, one needs to identify the elements of the query, convert each into a number, divide the number by 8, then take the remainder as the trigram number (if the number divides exactly by 8, then trigram 8 is indicated). So, for example, if the word 'bed' were an element of the query, the numerical value of the letter 'b' is 2, that of 'e' is 5, and that of 'd' is 4. 2 + 5 + 4 = 11, divide 11 by 8, and the answer is 1, remainder 3, and the trigram obtained is therefore trigram number 3. All nice and straightforward, except the author numbers the trigrams 1 to 9! So, using this method, it would be impossible to obtain trigram 9 (Li), as dividing by 8 can never leave a remainder of 9! So, the system appears to be unusable. I checked this against the only other book I have which contains any material on the Plum Blossom method ('An Anthology of I Ching' by Sherrill and Chu) and the authors do not mention using the Later Heaven arrangement to obtain the trigrams; they only describe using the Early Heaven arrangement, which numbers the trigrams 1 to 8, and so their system is usable. Is that the answer, then: ignore the Later Heaven Arrangement and just use the Early Heaven Arrangement? I'd be very grateful for advice from anybody who knows more about the subject than I do. I tried to find the answer on the Internet, but couldn't find any mention of the problem anywhere, which surprised me, as the Lillian Too book seems to be popular, and I would have thought other readers would have had the same difficulty as I have. It also seems surprising that a book with such a glaring fault was published - unless it's me who's at fault for not understanding it! And what does one make of the statement that the author uses the Plum Blossom method herself? Does she never obtain hexagrams which include the trigram Li?! Incidentally, I don't think using the Later Heaven Arrangement but dividing by 9 rather than 8 can be the solution (or can it?), as surely the point of using 8 as the divisor is that there are 8 trigrams.

(From my understanding of Sherrill and Chu, it seems this problem may have arisen originally from trying to fit the 8 trigrams into a 'magic square', which consists of 9 smaller squares).

Many thanks for any help.

Hi John,

Good observation of you, and if I had actually tried the methods in Too's book instead of just reading them I guess I would have had the same problem. It is stupid of me that I did not do that, because this big error should have been mentioned in my review of this book on Steve Marshall's site. Thanks for bringing it up.

What Too actually does is mix the Earlier Heaven method with the Later Heaven method. The EH method is more objective and uses numbers which are chosen from more or less random factors. But the LH method is subjective: you have the choose two elements from your situation and find the trigrams that match these elements/associations.

The example that Too gives on p. 52 is actually a EH method example, because that method uses the numbers of the trigrams to determine the hexagram. In the EH method the numbers of the trigrams are only used to find the moving line (which actually results in every hexagram having always the same moving line, reducing the possible outcomes to 64).

I did not value Too's book very much, but knowing this error makes me wonder if she ever studied Meihua Yishu at all.

Harmen.

Hi Harmen,

Many thanks for your reply. I got the Lillian Too book in the hope it would provide an easy-to-understand but reliable introduction to the Plum Blossom method, but, unless you know different, the only text which seems to do this is the section in Sherrill and Chu.

Best wishes,
John.

Actually the book by Da Liu, I Ching Numerology (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060616768; out of print) is the best source (see my review of Too's book: http://www.biroco.com/yijing/lilliantoo.htm). Da Liu's book is closest to the original Chinese material. I think it is hard to find the book these days. Happy hunting.

Best wishes,

Harmen.

Hey there,
I Just went to www.abebooks.com and found several copies of Dal Liu's book (I Ching Numerology) in French, and a copy or two in Italian - if that is any help....
Sherab

Hi!
Thanks to Harmen and Sherab for your help.
Best wishes,
John