Following the Advice

miakoda · Sep 6, 2006

Hello everyone:

What do you think about receiving consistent advice from the I Ching (showing up in at least a few daily readings over months) that encourages major life changes that you would never have moved towards on your own?

I am absolutely dead sure that I'm being guided towards someone (Lord as equal, Lord in street, Calling crane in the Yin, 50.6, 20.5.6 over and over, 26.6, 19.1.2., etc. etc.)--in a really quite stunning way. What ultimate role and to what extent this person will be in my life, I do not know. (He is a teacher--but there are possible romantic implications, too, no?) What he teaches is difficult and almost beyond my abilities and I would never engage in it if it weren't for the Yi.

All objections posed to the I Ching are met with opposition (putting away the tortoise, ten divinations would say the same thing, you're invited to aid the king, etc., etc.) These show up over and over again. The two sides (depending on my question) play out elegantly in transitional hexagrams and sit like signposts along the road in hexagrams with single changing lines.

The thing is I would never intuitively take on the work that this man teaches. What I'm wondering is has anyone ever allowed the Yi to guide them this strongly? I worry that I'm giving it too much weight. 98% of me trusts it entirely, but 2% has the willies.

I'd love to hear from anyone who has gone through this time of the Vessel/Caldron and lived to tell the tale without the entire structure of their life imploding! BTW, they've also addressed the insecurites (hair clasp gathers hair-16.4, 49.4, 26.6, etc., etc.) and tell me again and again that I need to change my group (eek--current relationship?). What think everyone? Any advice?

Yours,

Miakoda

willowfox · Sep 6, 2006

Hi,

I think that your question (s) are just hopes and wishes for a better future because there is no evidence to suggest that there will be any major life changes for you. I would think that the best thing for you to do is stay still and wait to see how you feel next month. Do you have a partner now? Teacher, I don't think so. Romantic implications, not yet, anyway.

I have allowed the I ching to guide me 100% in certain matters but I fear that you are giving it too much thought and thus deluding yourself. You are probably thinking very strongly of your group, but I feel that all you are doing is thinking, no physical action here. You are all airy, fairy at the moment, head going in too many directions but again, no action.

The vessel represents transformation but in the sense here of examing yourself, you are the teacher, you must look at your life and change what you don't like. There is no external teacher, it is a matter of you healing yourself. The I Ching speaks of a spiritual transformation. Your life will not implode, explode or anything like that. It is for you to learn to become more positive, to leave your doubts and insecurities behind, then your life will change. Get rid of the old way of thinking, bring in the new and you will then form a new relationship with yourself. Change your thoughts, gain new insights about yourself, this will give you the security that you need to face life's problems. Help others, be modest and unassuming, be kind, look around and see what you can do, don't waste yourself.

RindaR · Sep 6, 2006

willowfox said:
Hi,

<snip> because there is no evidence to suggest that there will be any major life changes for you. <snip>

..Excuse me! Perhaps you mean to say that *you* don't see any evidence???.... Why are you not willing to take Miakoda's question and preliminary comments as they stand?

(not addressing the query at the moment, but willowfox's response)

Rinda

Trojina · Sep 6, 2006

Miakoda I think it pays to always keep an eye on the facts, whats before you, in other words I guess not to trust the Yi 100% all the time because you can't even trust yourself that much and how often does our left hand not know what our right hand is doing ? Also we can misinterpret, especially when we want something.

Thats only my opinion based on times i got carried away in the past over things or persons

I wanted very very badly.

I can't explain why this happens, but it seems sometimes especially if there are very deep feelings involved, the Yi appears to lead one up the 'garden path'. Well to be honest I think it happens when one is in a state of besottedness with something. (The most disapointed Yi users are the ones in love, cuz nothing is gonna tell them hes not interested, they'll put a positive spin on anything, lol, I know I've done it.)

However you don't say you have strong feelings about this situation, only that you would not have followed this route but for the Yi. Hmm well part of me answers that some hidden part of you really did want this all along and another part of me answers well yes maybe the Yi is bringing you some great guidance here, very fortunate for you.

I have followed Yis advice when my own inclination was to do the opposite, with good results. Seems to work when I'm calm, clear headed about an issue. As I say other times when I've been badly wanting a certain outcome, maybe because I was muddled in my mind, the Yis answers, or how I interpreted them, were way out.

It all sounds very positive and the truth is I don't know if it will be okay for you to trust Yis answers 100% on this. All I'm saying is perhaps just keep a tiny corner of your mind as a hard bitten realist to protect yourself from the follies of delusion...hmm just incase, to be on the safe side you know.

Trojina · Sep 6, 2006

Oh BTW agree with Rindas post above.

luz · Sep 6, 2006

And I agree with both.

Miakoda,

I wonder what following the Yi's advice implies in your case. You mention he is a teacher, but I am not sure if he is your teacher now or you will become his student because of the Yi's advice. If becoming his student is the step you will take, then that is fine, you are not taking too many risks.

But if following the advice implies radical changes to your life or a very bold "move" on your part, I would say you should ask more questions first and to beware of wishful thinking, as Trojan pointed out.

willowfox · Sep 6, 2006

Oh my goodness the harpies are out again.

willowfox · Sep 6, 2006

To Rinda,

do you see the evidence? Please tell me where in her post there are signs of a major life change coming up. I suggest you read the post more carefully and read between the lines next time, it may just show you a different colour.

willowfox · Sep 6, 2006

Who is this someone that she thinks she is being guided towards, folks? What is he teaching?
Read what she has written more carefully.

Trojina · Sep 6, 2006

No, its up to you to provide evidence to support your claim that there are no major life changes coming up. There is absolutely nothing to tell you if there are or aren't in Miakodas post. Once again you are making things up.

Please don't refer to me as a 'harpie' since it may force me to refer to you as a 'charlatan' .

willowfox · Sep 6, 2006

To trojan,

no its up to miakoda to show how she's arrived at the answer of major change coming soon, don't you think? I just say what see, and I see nothing to back up her statement of major life changes coming soon, or are you another who is deluding themselves as well.

RindaR · Sep 6, 2006

Discussion of ideas can be intersting, calling names is boring.

Rinda

willowfox · Sep 6, 2006

miakoda · Sep 6, 2006

Wow!

I got up and before my usual morning routine read Willowfox's post and went Ouch! I did feel a little slapped around, but went on with my day and in my open reading this morning, I received: 50.2 (There is something real in the vessel. My companion is afflicted, but is not able to approach. The Way is open), and so tried not to take it too personally. I was greatly encouraged when I returned to read the further discussion, though. Only no name calling, please!

In Willowfox's defense, I can see that in an attempt to protect my privacy my description of the events was -- well, airy fairy. However, although I didn't spell them out, there are good, solid relationships with people. I am in a long-term relationship (more than a dozen years), that the Yi quite clearly says is not right for me. This is hard to accept. I suppose I know it (and others agree), but still haven't really come to admit it to myself. And I am actually studying with the teacher and there is something real in the vessel--can't be more open to you than that, other than 50.3 shows up, too. I do feel that the work with the teacher is over my head, but I'm going along with the Yi's encouragement that it's the right path for now. I wish I knew that the teacher was going to be all of those things that the positive hexes promise, but I guess I'll just have to actually live the life and see. That's one thing I find hard about having such a good connection with the Yi. It makes me feel a bit like a double exposed photograph--in two places at once.

What I was hoping for from Clarity was this: advice about following the Yi to the letter, a discussion about instincts and the Yi, and consideration--each person who writes for advice is doing the best that he or she can. In many ways I found it. So, thank you for the kind reminders and sage advice about trying to make the Yi reinforce hopes. There's a good lesson in this, no? I can't make the Yi shape the future I want.

I should be grateful that every day they guide me forward. It's just hard to follow the tao when it's to a more and more vulnerable place.

Thank you,

Miakoda

bruce_g · Sep 6, 2006

Yatahey, Miakoda.

Not saying this is the end-all interpretation. What I’m going to say is almost never believed by the person I say it to. That said, I’ll say it anyway.

You’ve had a big run on auspicious readings. Something is coming. The question is, what? A lover in Yijing is frequently not someone else, but instead reflects a romance within or between our own duality. This doesn’t say there won’t be another, in the separate other sense, but that the essential concern of life is to unite with itself. When you unite with yourself you draw to you others who are united with themselves. Then there is neither other nor self, they are one and the same. If this leader/teacher man is as evolved as you say he is, the way to unite with him is to unite with yourself. He will be there where you are when you are.

autumn · Sep 6, 2006

Wow, Bruce. Love that.

I will tell you my own experience- if it can be helpful. I've often wished the Oracle would be wrong, and it never has been. Let me qualify that, though. I have also had the experience that Trojan is describing, (I think), which is like some kind of static feedback from too much emotion. Sometimes, the Oracles stops communicating with you and starts reflecting your intense emotions back to you so that you can learn from them. But, unless it's doing that, the answers for me have always been on. Just as an example, recently our dog had to stay with a friend and ran away. I asked the I-ching what to do to find her, and it said, nothing, she's been put up with a neighbor, and will come back on her own. This was an urban area, and it made no sense to believe that. It made much more sense to believe she'd been killed or caught by the pound, especially as days turned into weeks. 3 weeks later she returned completely unharmed on her own. She'd been caught by a neighbor who thought she was a stray.

However, it's also really important to know you're really understanding the answers. Sometimes you can misinterpret the message, so it's important to be very clear in your questions.

bruce_g · Sep 6, 2006

Hi Autumn,

Yes, yes! Yi’s images are huge – exaggerated, as Chris likes to call it. The more psyched up we are, the grander Yi’s answers to us appear.

So long as we’re sharing stories:

Back in the early 70’s, a good friend and myself were already seriously involved with Yijing readings. At that time we were on the magical mystery tour bus, if you catch my drift? The whole phantasmagorical world of Yijing and Castaneda. Everything had huge and important meanings.

We were also the core of a musical group, and as you might expect, it too had taken on these huge missionary meanings to us, and of course the Yi was right there to cheer us on! About midway through that year I began to reduce (or maybe expand?) Yi’s readings to refer to something less grandiose, but also something far more intimate. My friend, on the other hand, pressed forward, taking Yi to the task on its promises to bring us into acclaim and “great good fortune”. The band ended when my friend received 24.6. His comment was ‘it’s too late, we missed the return.’ I said nothing, but inside I said to myself, ‘no, you missed the return.'

I went on to do more music, and I continued using the Yi. But, no longer did I place monolithic proportions to Yi’s answers, unless it involved only my inner life. From that comes everything else, good, bad, beautiful and ugly.

autumn · Sep 6, 2006

That's really good advice... especially here. Look inside first for the big, auspicious changes. I love your generation. My parents were quite "out there" in the late sixties and early seventies as well, because they were vegetarians and earth-conscious and followed Mehra Baba. But no drugs. They are always quite clear on that. We never did drugs.

You know I thought of something, reading about the teacher. One of my most life-changing transition times a few years back, during my last semester of college, centered around my professor. He was a British national, and my Spanish literature professor, and knowing him transformed my political views, and understanding of myself. I think everyone kind of goes through a period of emotional growth in their twenties, when you really become an adult, and he was critical to me in forming my sense of adulthood.

But in the external world, not much. I was very attracted to him, but no affair, nothing scandolous. It was just my experience of him and feelings about myself changing.

Trojina · Sep 6, 2006

bruce_g said:
Hi Autumn,

Yes, yes! Yi’s images are huge – exaggerated, as Chris likes to call it. The more psyched up we are, the grander Yi’s answers to us appear.

Yes thats really important to bear in mind, to scale down the image to the size of your question.

bruce_g · Sep 6, 2006

autumn said:
It was just my experience of him and feelings about myself changing.

Oh, the heartbreak so many young women could spare themselves if they only understood that. But then, maybe that heartbreak is part of the magic?

bruce_g · Sep 6, 2006

trojan said:
Yes thats really important to bear in mind, to scale down the image to the size of your question.

lol, you mean lines like:
Lines are coming,
Blessing and fame draw near.
Good fortune.

But, but, I was only asking about fixing my car!

Sparhawk · Sep 6, 2006

bruce_g said:
Oh, the heartbreak so many young women could spare themselves if they only understood that. But then, maybe that heartbreak is part of the magic?

Geeze, Bruce, you are killing the mystery of relationships... We like mystery.

Trojina · Sep 6, 2006

bruce_g said:
lol, you mean lines like:
Lines are coming,
Blessing and fame draw near.
Good fortune.

But, but, I was only asking about fixing my car!

LOL yup thats exactly what I mean. Many a time I've smiled (sneered) wryly when receiving that line. Fame ? As if ! Lol Wilhelm must have got the wrong word there surely, wheres Ewald when you need him ? (come to think of it, whats it mean lines are coming, lines of what ? lol)

55,5 Ewald ?

miakoda · Sep 6, 2006

Not all of us are young, Bruce ;-) And thanks for not giving up on letting us in on the advice about the duality inside of us and uniting with ourselves. I certainly don't have a clear notion about how to go about doing that, but it rings true (and is part of the vessel, no?)--I figure that the Yi are here to help and I'll keep exploring it.

I loved hearing about your experience with your teacher, Autumn. If we meet at least one teacher in our lifetime who has that kind of influence, it's a great gift.

Annie Lamott says there are only two prayers: help me, help me, help me and thank you, thank you, thank you.

Thanks everyone,

Miakoda

nicky_p · Sep 6, 2006

If you reject fame what are you left with... Infamy?

Trojina · Sep 6, 2006

Who is rejecting fame ? And if one were offered it and rejected it infamy would not be the result but anonymity. At least anonymity with the general public, I mean everyones famous to their friends as the saying goes.

I don't get your point Nicky ?

bruce_g · Sep 6, 2006

Oh, I don’t we’re likely to run out of mysteries to romanticize over, Luis. And if we do the universe will bring us new ones, I’m sure.

Miakoda (lovely name, btw; Navajo equivalent of Kuan Yin), I’m glad it resonates with you. Wish you all good things, inside and outside.

bruce_g · Sep 7, 2006

nicky_p said:
If you reject fame what are you left with... Infamy?

Blessings I’ll gladly receive in abundance. Infamy is just the dark side of fame: if you have one the other is close behind. Lines, they are inevitable.

nicky_p · Sep 7, 2006

trojan said:
Who is rejecting fame ? And if one were offered it and rejected it infamy would not be the result but anonymity. At least anonymity with the general public, I mean everyones famous to their friends as the saying goes.

I don't get your point Nicky ?

No point - it was an honest question. The whole good fortune/bad fortune conundrum and Bruce's story about his friend missing his return is a little worrying - especially when the questions become more intimate and about your inner self. And so the question of how much credence is afforded to the advice given by the yi is... the only word I can think of is 'serious' but I don't think that's the right one.

nicky_p · Sep 7, 2006

bruce_g said:
Lines, they are inevitable.

I used to get 'lines' when I did something wrong at school.

I must learn to count my blessings.
I must learn to count my blessings.
I must learn.......lol

Following the Advice

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