What is wisdom?

silent octavius · Mar 27, 2007

For a certain time now, I've been thinking about wisdom and what it is. Yesterday night I decided to consult the Yijing about it and got hexagram 53 no changing lines. Immediately I thought that the answer was appropiate since in many books i've read and most of the sources I consulted often agree that wisdom can only be acquired gradually. This hexagram also seems to imply the notion of patience, taking one's time. This immediatley brought to mind a quote by St-Augustine, " Patience is the companion of wisdom."

I was wondering what the other people on this board thought about the question. Have others questionned the Yijing about such a thing and gotten a different answer? I'd be very interested in hearing what other people have to say.

bruce_g · Mar 27, 2007

Good question. I'll come back just as soon as I get some.

ewald · Mar 27, 2007

I see wisdom as the insight that comes from being really, absolutely in touch with reality.

bruce_g · Mar 27, 2007

imo..

People search for wisdom as being the holy grail, as though it can be held in ones hand, and they can say "I have it!" Before that time, they struggle and struggle with life, and with being happy. "If only I had more wisdom, then I will be happy and wise." Wise people are always happy and content, right?

Wisdom isn't only acquired through hard times, difficult decisions, uncertain futures or "spiritual disciplines", it is maintained through them. It's ongoing, like 53. A wild goose can only maintain its altitude so long by gliding.

crystal_blue · Mar 27, 2007

ewald said:
I see wisdom as the insight that comes from being really, absolutely in touch with reality.

I agree.

stevev · Mar 27, 2007

No argument here ...

Yes well Legge calls hexagram 53, Gradual Progress, which I think spells it out pretty well, a little bit of effort and a lot of time. It’s not a mad rush to consume knowledge, although knowledge counts for a lot. The saying “wise for his age” implies it only usually comes only with age. Apart from the time to acquire, the main thing age has going for it is that the hormone soup that drives the young starts to settle and allows you to apply your accumulated knowledge. Also the inverse and opposite of 53 is 54, Propriety, which often accompanies what we think of as wise, that is the way the wise act.

jesed · Mar 27, 2007

A tree growing on the top of a mountain...

Many cultures have references to Holly Trees, as expression of Life-Knowledge, Mastery and Wisdom; and Holly Mountains as expression of Self-development in quiteness and stability.

Is it coincidence that most of people considered Wise have inner quiteness and satbility (even in the eye of a tornado) PLUS gentle flexibility in their action in the world?

Nice answer, 53

Best wishes

bruce_g · Mar 28, 2007

I'm still waiting for someone to define this reality, Ewald speaks of. The one we can get really, absolutely in touch with.

Sparhawk · Mar 28, 2007

bruce_g said:
I'm still waiting for someone to define this reality, Ewald speaks of. The one we can get really, absolutely in touch with.

Oh, Bruce, just drop your guitar on your bared toes...

L

lightofreason · Mar 28, 2007

silent octavius said:
For a certain time now, I've been thinking about wisdom and what it is. Yesterday night I decided to consult the Yijing about it and got hexagram 53 no changing lines. .

...one of 4096 possible, acceptable, descriptions. From a universal position wisdom is described by all 4096 descriptions. LOCAL CONTEXT will then sort all of those into an order from best-fit to worst-fit where meaning can be found in all of them - even the worst fit is 'meaningful' by being such.

Thus in some circumstances 53 (maturing) 'fits', in others it is 54 (high energy exenditure that turns into 'wind' ;-) the wisdom is in knowing that and exploiting it - even the immature can show 'wisdom' given some context)

Chris.

bruce_g · Mar 28, 2007

sparhawk said:
Oh, Bruce, just drop your guitar on your bared toes...

L

Yes! That is reality! Thank you, Luis! You are a truly wise man. :bows:

Tohpol · Mar 28, 2007

How about these quotations:

"The function of wisdom is to discriminate between good and evil." - Cicero

"To understand reality is not the same as to know about outward events. It is to perceive the essential nature of things. The best-informed man is not necessarily the wisest. Indeed there is a danger that precisely in the multiplicity of his knowledge he will lose sight of what is essential. But on the other hand, knowledge of an apparently trivial detail quite often makes it possible to see into the depth of things. And so the wise man will seek to acquire the best possible knowledge about events, but always without becoming dependent upon this knowledge. To recognize the significant in the factual is wisdom." - Dietrich Bonnhoffer

Then what is this "being in touch with reality"?

What about this:

..problems incorrectly viewed lead ipso facto to erroneous solutions, distorted by Illusion. There, instead of simplifying the situation, complicate it even more…‘a correct, that is objective statement of a problem results, at least in part, in a simplification and clarification of the situation.’ Conversely, if as a result of measures taken to resolve one or more problems the situation becomes even more complicated, this provides an objective indication that there is an error of conception at the start.
- Boris Mouravieff

So, I guess wisdom has its roots in being as obejctive as we can about reality - that way, we honour reality as it is, not as we would like it to be.

Easier said than done though...

topal

bruce_g · Mar 28, 2007

Come on, guys, let’s get real about reality. When you speak of reality, do you mean: balancing my checkbook and paying taxes kind of reality, being on time for a dental appointment reality, does he/she/it still love me kind of reality, who/what/where is God kind of reality, scientific reality, I’m being as honest with myself as I can be reality, I’m so humble I make myself sick reality, cause and effect reality, or, I have very little idea what reality actually is reality?

A common expression is: “perception is reality”, and while I can’t agree entirely with that statement, it’s as close as we’re able to approach knowing what reality is, in it’s most real sense.

Reality to me is, as Luis said, dropping something heavy on my toe, or, something must die for something to live. But those things seem obvious, and you don’t need much wisdom to come to understand that. The rest is human philosophy, speculation and subjective experience of reality.

So where is this “in touch with reality” wisdom, you're speaking of?

imbue · Mar 28, 2007

I have the idea that Wisdom is a discription rather than a state of being, I would never be so inclined to say that "I" am wise. This is for another to decide. If I seek a defination of Wisdom it is one I own and apply to someone whom I feel meets this discription. "A wise person is one who will without fail use knowledge to its best advantage for the benefit of many or only a few."

Reality, can be only defined as something which time makes a truth of. Elusive and forever changeing with time and personal circumstance. Certainty is a reality which is a logical conclusion of theory and law, until time proves it a non reality..

These are my opinions gathered from experience in this environment.

imbue

crystal_blue · Mar 28, 2007

bruce_g said:
So where is this “in touch with reality” wisdom, you're speaking of?

Being aware of things around/inside oneself, which entails not become attached to any particular state.

bruce_g · Mar 28, 2007

topal said:
How about these quotations:

"To understand reality is not the same as to know about outward events. It is to perceive the essential nature of things. The best-informed man is not necessarily the wisest. Indeed there is a danger that precisely in the multiplicity of his knowledge he will lose sight of what is essential. But on the other hand, knowledge of an apparently trivial detail quite often makes it possible to see into the depth of things. And so the wise man will seek to acquire the best possible knowledge about events, but always without becoming dependent upon this knowledge. To recognize the significant in the factual is wisdom." - Dietrich Bonnhoffer

topal

I like this, but for me it could be summed up in a word: seeing.

Seeing, for me, is best expressed in LiSe's 23, first comment: Lay bare what is in or behind things.

Yes, I think that is wisdom.

august moon · Mar 28, 2007

A wise man will desire no more than what he may get justly, use soberly, distribute cheerfully, and leave contentedly.
Author: Benjamin Franklin

Experiences are savings which a miser puts aside. Wisdom is an inheritance which a wastrel cannot exhaust.
Author: Karl Kraus

Growth in wisdom may be exactly measured by decrease in bitterness
Author:Friedrich Nietzsche

By three methods we may learn wisdom: first, by reflection which is noblest; second, by imitation, which is the easiest; and third, by experience, which is the bitterest.
Author: Confucius

I have been driven many times to my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere to go. My own wisdom, and that of all about me, seemed insufficient for the day.
Author: Abraham Lincoln

The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
Author: Socrates

There are three classes of men - lovers of wisdom, lovers of honor, lovers of gain.
Plato

Knowing others is wisdom; Knowing the self is enlightenment; Mastering others requires force; Mastering the self needs strength.
Author Lao Tzu

Just as treasures are uncovered from the earth, so virtue appears from good deeds, and wisdom appears from a pure and peaceful mind. To walk safely through the maze of human life, one needs the light of wisdom and the guidance of virtue.
Buddha

ewald · Mar 28, 2007

With reality I mean anything you might perceive, as crystal_blue says, inside as well as outside.

Inside is a vast, really vast part of reality that we actually intentionally tend to ignore. I mean what's in the unconcious, where it was pushed by us, in order to protect ourselves from all kinds of overwhelming feelings. It is often so unconscious that it doesn't even occur to us how much is there.

Uncovering that inside reality makes us much better able to objectively perceive what's outside, be it the dental appointment, or the feelings of those we meet. We really wouldn't need an oracle if we were in touch with that all.

bruce_g · Mar 28, 2007

ewald said:
With reality I mean anything you might perceive, as crystal_blue says, inside as well as outside.

Inside is a vast, really vast part of reality that we actually intentionally tend to ignore. I mean what's in the unconcious, where it was pushed by us, in order to protect ourselves from all kinds of overwhelming feelings. It is often so unconscious that it doesn't even occur to us how much is there.

Uncovering that inside reality makes us much better able to objectively perceive what's outside, be it the dental appointment, or the feelings of those we meet. We really wouldn't need an oracle if we were in touch with that all.

Thanks for the clarifying, Ewald. We agree on the stripping part.

To me, it is all quite like the tower of Babel. So I'm going with Socrates on this one.

Man is the only creature on this earth which makes things in the shapes of squares and rectangles. I'm unsure whether this is an evolved form of nature or a severely deformed one. I guess it goes back to Adam and Eve, leaving the garden. Blessing or curse? I dunno.

Tohpol · Mar 28, 2007

bruce_g said:
I like this, but for me it could be summed up in a word: seeing.

Seeing, for me, is best expressed in LiSe's 23, first comment: Lay bare what is in or behind things.

Yes, I think that is wisdom.

Yes. Developing our perspicacity. Learning to see the unseen. I think that is the root of all true wisdom. That's alchemy and pretty much the IC.

topal

rosada · Mar 29, 2007

I see "Wisdom" as meaning that moment between seeing a situation and taking action. The young act immediately, sometimes to brilliant effect, sometimes to tragic consequences. The Wise know Fast Action does not necessarily mean Right Action, and pace themselves accordingly.
In the tarot The Fool card is illustrated as a young man mindlessly walking over the edge of a cliff. The hermit card, the card intended to illustrate Wisdom, is a picture of a man pausing at the edge, holding high a lantern and looking about. Thus in the teaching of the tarot,Wisdom is associated with the phrase, "Look before you leap."

willowfox · Mar 29, 2007

The slow and steady progress that comes from learning, giving one the slow advance towards wisdom.

hollis · Mar 29, 2007

Yes, I thought that the answer 53 meant, slowly, gradually, you will learn what wisdom is, gradually, you will come to understand wisdom.

hilary · Mar 29, 2007

Good thread. (Has anyone put some arnica ointment in the post to Bruce's toes?)

Breathtaking reading. What's wisdom? Gradual development - a marriage, a growing relationship - a slow journey home - channels cut for water, or liquid soaking through.
The marriage imagery, especially, really grips me. Reminds me of another 'way too big to understand' reading I did recently, on the way inner life relates to outer experience.

bruce_g · Mar 29, 2007

hilary said:
Good thread. (Has anyone put some arnica ointment in the post to Bruce's toes?)

Hypothetical guitars don't weigh very much.

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