Poles suggest a majority of voters disapprove of George Bush's leadership. So why doesn't the country impeach him?

I received 4.2>23.

4.2
To bear with fools in kindliness brings good fortune.
To know how to take women
Brings good fortune.
The son is capable of taking charge of the household.

23.
Those above can ensure their position
Only by giving generously to those below.

My interpretation
4.2
George Bush didn't get this power from inside himself, it came from the outside, the electorate, therefore he is Innocent from any accusations of abuse of power as it was freely given to him. (review 25.Innocence) If he is indeed Innocent, then I think I Ching is saying the public is fondly refering to him as a Fool, and the public knowing he is not to blame for our having been so equally foolish as to have trusted his belief in himself. So a feeling not to Impeach him cause though he's incompetant, we were qually incompetant for voting him into office.
Then this bit about the ability to take Woman and the son taking over the household. I remember even people who didn't care for his father, Herbert Walker Bush, respected for Barbara. Perhaps George Bush inherited his father's ability to attract strong women - Laurie Bush, Condi Rice - but then the energy attracted strong women to oppose him too, Barbara Boxer, and maybe his energy is pulling the plight of women everywhere to the forefront with the focus on Iraq and women there.

So I'm wondering if perhaps there is a reluctance to annilate Bush, even amongh his strongest political opponents, because there is a sence that he is a pawn, not to blame, and even that possiblly his presence in the Whitehouse is serving some good, a Higher Purpose, like strong woman coming into power?

23.
Ensure position by giving generously to those below:
Electorate feeling even though they philosophically oppose Bush, on a survival level there is the fear he maybe right and letting him have his way may ensure safety.

Note: I am not saying that I agree with those who are reluctant to forge ahead with a full force campaign for impeachment. I am just trying to figure out what the mind setis of those who agree with all the accusations against him, yet who still say, "Even so, we ought to keep him until the four years is up."

What happened in California? They didn't impeach Grey Davis, did they? They just called for a new election. Is it possible to leapfrog over the Impeachment process and just call for a new election?

rosada said:

Poles suggest a majority of voters disapprove of George Bush's leadership. So why doesn't the country impeach him?

I received 4.2>23.

Click to expand...

Interesting result Rosada.

Personally I think the I Ching is talking not about Bush but the psyche of the American public who have been lied to in monumental ways. This is about the American people growing up and taking charge of their destiny rather than giving it away, essentially to criminals. In order to do that we have to dig very deep into things we'd rather not contemplate.

The electorate didn't give Bush anything - it was already his. It is still widely perceived that this was a democratic election. This is a fallacy. Sad to say that the elections in the US were planned and delivered beforehand under the illusion of a democratic process. With the advent of computerized voting machines under management from Bush sympathisers the ability to verify the vote is impossible. There are easy ways for corruption to ensure the required outcome. They were taken full advantage of.

Democracy died along time ago probably with the death of Kennedy and the rise of the alterative Bush dynasty which built its fortune from business with Nazis and affiliated companies during the war. The sooner the American public wake up to the fact that the Neo-conservative government hold the people in absolute contempt and dig deep into the actual reality behind the Bush family, their associated business ties their invasion of Iraq (as well as the phoney "war on Terror" pantomime) the sooner such an appalling regime can come to and end.

I think Hex 23 is indicative of Bush's America. There is definitely a "splitting apart" of the US right now and until Bush and the Neo-con/military fundies leave the situation is only likely to become worse.

topal

Yes, I agree with you, topal. I don't think the electorate gave Bush the power, he stole it. But I think the I Ching is saying that we have not had a recall because as you say, this would require growing up, taking charge of one's own destiny, looking at things one would rather not see. Instead, we prefer to assume he is Innocent, even those who feel he is a scoundral putz along and bear with this foo rather than doing the hard work of looking at the corruption pervasive through out the system. Interesting YC says, "To know how to take women brings good fortune." I think this alludes to the fact he has known how to appeal to the unconcious, particularly the fears people have of the world Splitting Apart. By creating the fear that there are Terrorists out to get us, people are reluctant to oppose him, to change leaders when this enemy is at the gate.

rosada said:

Yes, I agree with you, topal. I don't think the electorate gave Bush the power, he stole it. But I think the I Ching is saying that we have not had a recall because as you say, this would require growing up, taking charge of one's own destiny, looking at things one would rather not see. Instead, we prefer to assume he is Innocent, even those who feel he is a scoundral putz along and bear with this foo rather than doing the hard work of looking at the corruption pervasive through out the system. Interesting YC says, "To know how to take women brings good fortune." I think this alludes to the fact he has known how to appeal to the unconcious, particularly the fears people have of the world Splitting Apart. By creating the fear that there are Terrorists out to get us, people are reluctant to oppose him, to change leaders when this enemy is at the gate.

Click to expand...

Yes, I see where you're coming from.

It is deeply, deeply sad. This manifest evil is beginning to have very real consequences not just for the Middle East but the world also. And I don't mind saying, it makes me afraid for the suffering for so many innocents that is to come.

I asked my own question on this: What is the most important thing we can do individually and collectively to affect a different outcome? (i.e. rather than the path of destruction)

Hex 55.2.4 > 11

This is an incredibly apt answer don't you think?

Lines 2 and 4 seem to say that we must take advantage of this time but in the correct way. We must hold to as pure a grasp of truth as we can, build the awareness not to shy away from the horror of it because it may be too much to bear but to face the darkness and thus understand how it works in the world and in ourselves thus we can avoid it's continuing influence. We must see things as objectively as we can otherwise we become part of the problem. Hence the trigram from Wilhelm:

"Clarity [Li] within makes it possible to investigate the facts exactly, and shock [Chên] without ensures a strict and precise carrying out of punishments."

It seems like the big grand gestures of defiance are not as effective as building our inner truth or being aware of the cycles and biding our time. The power of corrupt politics prevents the power of the people from asserting their rights. So, too our wish to believe that governments have the best interests of people at heart.

"Here the darkness is already decreasing, therefore interrelated elements come together. Here too the complement must be found-the necessary wisdom to complement joy of action. Then everything will go well. The complementary factor postulated here is the reverse of the one in the first line. In the latter, wisdom is to be complemented by energy, while here energy is complemented by wisdom."

So standing strong and networking. Each voice adding to a chorus and each of us being an example of truth is what this line seems to be saying. Perhaps building the knowledge base and taking action in ways that are practical and achievable within our individual constraints. Knowledge not applied is just dead information. We must seek ways and means to develop the wisdom needed to make action effective and that I think can only come from a collective push that transends beliefs and petty needs and to see things as they really are. Maybe when the stakes get high enough that will manifest. I hope by then it's not too late however.

Dark times we live in but we can all play a part in dispersing that darkness by shining as much objective truth as we can on the matter and resisting the lies. Yeah, cheesy as it may sound, if we don't see how serious current events are becoming from any number of angles the future is going to be very, very dark indeed.

55 is a window of opportunity for all of us. Any more thoughts?

topal

"Poles suggest a majority of voters disapprove of George Bush's leadership. So why doesn't the country impeach him? I received 4.2>23."


Hex 4.2 I suppose that a lot of voters do see Bush as being a fool, but, a fool that means no intentional harm to anyone. He's human, he makes mistakes, we can all relate to that. The voters see the son of George Bush Sr. as capable of running the country, so leave things as they are.

Hex 23 suggests that impeaching Bush would undermine the US causing it to collapse in the eyes of the world, causing it to lose its power and authority. The voters know that the best solution is to remain devote and docile, don't rock the boat in this bad period because they know it won't last forever. The voters know that this is not a time for a change of government when so much is going on, wisdom dictates that they should keep still and leave the Bush crowd be. Therefore, there will be no impeachment because the time is not right for such an action.

my 2 cents

Hi all,
obviously a reading about such a topic is heavily influenced by our political beliefs.

Question number one, relating to hex 4 is "who is the fool ?"
The original question is "So why doesn't the country impeach him? "
So I think the fool, the ignorant one, is the country, the american people (before a flame wars starts I do not think here in Europe/Italy things are different..)

"The son" is obviously George W. junior;
"The son is capable of taking charge of the household." George is the prez.

23 is the relating hex, me too take it as a portrait of Bush's America .

Hugs
Bashir

pargenton said:

Hi all,
obviously a reading about such a topic is heavily influenced by our political beliefs.

Question number one, relating to hex 4 is "who is the fool ?"
The original question is "So why doesn't the country impeach him? "
So I think the fool, the ignorant one, is the country, the american people (before a flame wars starts I do not think here in Europe/Italy things are different..)

Click to expand...

The American people don't have the authority to impeach a president. They leave that decision up to their representatives in Congress. If there is a "super-majority" of 2/3 of Congress voting to impeach, then the President must go.

The original question was "Why doesn't the country impeach him?" I think the answer in 4.2 is "The American people elected Bush... the American people elected the Congress... now they're bearing with the fools they elected."

23 as the resultant hex... Bush ensures his position as president by giving in to some of the demands of the Congress and the American people.

Why?

To bear with fools in kindliness brings good fortune. (The congress is bearing with him, its easier now for him to finish up his term than to impeach, and apparently, it will bring good fortune)
The son is capable of taking charge of the household. (Bush is "capable" of being President and there is no solid ground for impeachment)

Those above can ensure their position
Only by giving generously to those below. (He is solidified enough with the congress to avoid impeachment, or ...perhaps a warning?)

pargenton said:

Hi all,
obviously a reading about such a topic is heavily influenced by our political beliefs.

Click to expand...

Whether right wing, left wing, democrat, republican, green, socialist or whatever, I think this is not actually about political beliefs per se, but a simple one of choosing to acknowledge lies and deceit. In other words, it is an ethical, moral issue - even a humanitarian one. How subjective our beliefs are at the expense of truth will no doubt feature in a big way. However, political policy has long since been irrelevent to most people on this planet who are simply trying to survive the repellent examples of excess that characterise so much of the Western world.

But I guess this is the key point: is middle America willing to step out of niavete and see that they being fleeced regardless of their political persuasions? In fact, I think there are huge numbers of ordinary Americans seeing the writing on the wall but it is simply not reported in the US press. One only has to take a look at Fox News to see how far down the plug-hole of propaganda it has gone.

topal

topal said:

One only has to take a look at Fox News to see how far down the plug-hole of propaganda it has gone.
topal

Click to expand...

Or CNN. It is entirely politically based and biased, either way. Beliefs have everything to do with perception of right and wrong, straight or crooked, credible or deceitful. To quote Alexander Hamilton, the masses are asses. Take your pick if you must, but don't fool yourself.

bruce_g said:

Or CNN. It is entirely politically based and biased, either way. Beliefs have everything to do with perception of right and wrong, straight or crooked, credible or deceitful. To quote Alexander Hamilton, the masses are asses. Take your pick if you must, but don't fool yourself.

Click to expand...

Yes beliefs define our reality, no question Bruce. To be more clear, I think there can arrive a "critical mass" within ourselves that defines whether or not those beliefs transcend purely political constructs or indeed remain tied to our comfort zones. I just hope enough of us mixed up humans can realise what is at stake here before it's too late. I have real fear for the immediate future.

topal

There were reasons to fear long before we went into Iraq. There was reason enough to fear when I was forced to choose between a buffoon and a waffling yes-man as our president. And there are still reasons to fear, as there are always reasons to fear, if one chooses to.

Great question, topal, "What can we do individually to create a better outcome?"

55.2
The curtain is of such fulness
That the polestars can be seen at noon.
Through going one meets with mistrust and hate.
If one rouses him through truth,
Good fortune comes.

The curtain seems to be the lies that have so shrouded the whole Iraq adventure.
"Through going one meets with mistrust and hate." Duh, yeah, they didn't throw flowers and kisses at our troups did they?
Or is this a referance to the questionable integrity of the 2000 elections?

"If one rouses him through truth,
Good fortune comes."
Supposedly this last means not trying to force issues, but rather to be patient and sincere, that by having faith in oneself and in the end ones influence will make itself felt. Just keep on being informed of the facts and the truth will out?

Then 55.4
The curtain is of such fulness
That the polestars can be seen at noon.
He meets his ruler, who is of like kind.
Good fortune.

Polsters ;-) and curtains make me think of elections and voting booths., so I'm seeing this as encouragement to forgo pushing for impeachment, and to make an effort to insure that the next election is scandal free.

bruce_g said:

There were reasons to fear long before we went into Iraq. There was reason enough to fear when I was forced to choose between a buffoon and a waffling yes-man as our president. And there are still reasons to fear, as there are always reasons to fear, if one chooses to.

Click to expand...

Of course there were reasons to fear before then. Fear as an instinct can propell us forward or it paralyze us. To choose to fear as an overiding arbitor of all that you do is not what's needed. But it can galvanize us.

There is however, a very big difference in the reality as I see it post-9/11. Something really changed for the worse - the world is much more unstable.

Hence we come back to 23.

topal

rosada said:

"If one rouses him through truth,
Good fortune comes."
Supposedly this last means not trying to force issues, but rather to be patient and sincere, that by having faith in oneself and in the end ones influence will make itself felt. Just keep on being informed of the facts and the truth will out?

Click to expand...

Exactly. I think the more people that have a handle on the truth about the "war on terror" nonsense and the real reasons for the invasion of Iraq the more I think that this awareness creates inevitable change in future possibilities. Truth will find a way. We may not all be skipping through the daisies but there's always the slight possibility for enough persons to wake up and modify the outcome even if it looks bleak right now. Dissemination of high quality info on these issues is the key. To keep hammering away.

rosada said:

Then 55.4
The curtain is of such fulness
That the polestars can be seen at noon.
He meets his ruler, who is of like kind.
Good fortune.

Polsters ;-) and curtains make me think of elections and voting booths., so I'm seeing this as encouragement to forgo pushing for impeachment, and to make an effort to insure that the next election is scandal free.

Click to expand...

That might be a forlorn hope. At the same time, they're going to have to be much more careful as there are now a lot of Americans who are waking up to the fact that they've been had. Congress is still largely embarrassingly clueless except for the likes of Cynthia McKinney and a few others. But line 4 does seem like there's some help at hand...hmmm.

topal

"What can we do individually to create a better outcome?"

55.2 and 4 changing to 11

Developing yourself in the shadows brings skill and balance. If you want to change the world, first develop yourself. Guerilla welfare. Battling the problem doesn’t create the solution. Being the solution brings the solution.

bruce_g said:

"What can we do individually to create a better outcome?"

55.2 and 4 changing to 11

Developing yourself in the shadows brings skill and balance. If you want to change the world, first develop yourself. Guerilla welfare. Battling the problem doesn’t create the solution. Being the solution brings the solution.

Click to expand...

Yes indeed. Beautifully put Bruce.

topal

Personally, I think Hilary (our Hilary) does more to end the world's craziness by lovin' on those old folks than all the Bush rants on the net.