Hello people! I have two questions for which I graciously ask for your advice upon: the first concerning a girl I am close friends with, and the second regarding a drastic change in outlook. I have written a lot, but it's easy reading, and I would appreciate all input available, now more than ever before, in fact.

Firstly, I asked the I Ching ''How can I expect my realtionship with X to change in the near future?'' for which I got 51.3 moving to 55.
I am interpreting this as positive. An event or discovery is to take place soon which will disturb our friendship, but if I remain level-headed {moving line 3}, then a time of happiness is due. I find this ambiguous only in that the Judgement suggests that it is short-lived: does this necessarily mean that things are going to get awful afterwards? Or just more upheaval? I should add that I was very much infatuated with her in the past, and sometimes I still hope for something more, against all odds.

My next question was much more important.

''Is a radical change in attitude, outlook and beliefs necessary now?''
61.2.3 moving to 37
I hope the question isnt vague. I assumed the I Ching would understand my meaning. Frankly, I did'nt know how to word it more concisely without writing an essay.
I don't want to go on, but for years and years I have been looking for an answer to why I am so messed up and why life isn't what it was cracked up to be: a panacea to all my difficulties, in particular: who am I? Why do I never feel like ME? I was looking 'out there' for the answer, but recent experiences have yielded what to me is an astonishing discovery: that the very world itself is shaped by one's belief and attitude. I mean this in a spirtual sense, although there has been liitle enough room in my life for God or spirituality, whichever form it takes. {actually, I'm half-convinced now that any given religion is a system with which to train one's perception}.
''The Kingdom of Heaven is already here'', according to Christ as depicted in the Gospel of Thomas. I hope this explains my meaning. Heaven, it seems to me now, is a state of mind, not a place. Likewise, who one truly is is already to be known, if one just looks the right way at things. The realization that belief and faith directly affect the world and one's experience of it has inevitably led me to conclude that my beliefs and attitudes up to this point have been WRONG, but it is difficult to let go. I asked the I Ching with this in mind: that if belief and will and vision comprise in a VERY REAL WAY what actually is, then it must be time to change my beliefs, and adopt a new vision.
I was very excited about this reading ''The Truth Within'', or ''Faithfulness''. This seems to me to affirm what I am thinking. But the moving lines and the subsequent hexagram ''Family'' are a mystery to me.
If you have taken the time to read this, thank you very much. How would you interpret this this? What is meant by Family? Is this a YES to my question?

Thank you

Madison

madison said:

Firstly, I asked the I Ching ''How can I expect my realtionship with X to change in the near future?'' for which I got 51.3 moving to 55.
I am interpreting this as positive. An event or discovery is to take place soon which will disturb our friendship, but if I remain level-headed {moving line 3}, then a time of happiness is due. I find this ambiguous only in that the Judgement suggests that it is short-lived: does this necessarily mean that things are going to get awful afterwards? Or just more upheaval? I should add that I was very much infatuated with her in the past, and sometimes I still hope for something more, against all odds.

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I wouldn't describe what's coming as a 'disturbance', but rather a major shaking up. It may challenge the friendship, or it may pose a different challenge entirely. (For instance, one or the other of you may be approached by a third party who's head-over-heels infatuated; I mean, *that* would be shakeup, wouldn't it?)

Also, you talk about remaining level-headed. Sure, good idea, but that's not what 51.3 talks about; 51.3 talks about how the shake-up stimulates you and/or your partner and/or the relationship to act, and the response (or reaction) will be free of fault.

Next, I see no indication of happiness in this, just intensity and shakeup and response which is without fault.

Finally, I see nothing in this that suggests the idea that it will be shortlived. I mean, a shock or a shakeup is necessarily of short duration, and your response to it will follow hard on its heels I imagine. But there's no shelf life included in 51.3 that I see. It's just the next step of the relationship. When it's done, there'll be another step to take. One step at a time.

'Short-lived' referred to hexagram 55. I very much hope that a third party does not get involved! A shakeup could mean that a major argument or falling-out is due, could'nt it? internal pressures being built up too long. I have been very depressed and withdrawn recently, so maybe this will be a source of consternation. Or maybe she is going to go for someone else. Ah, me. Thanks for your input. What do you think of 55?

madison said:

Hello people! I have two questions for which I graciously ask for your advice upon: the first concerning a girl I am close friends with, and the second regarding a drastic change in outlook. I have written a lot, but it's easy reading, and I would appreciate all input available, now more than ever before, in fact.

Firstly, I asked the I Ching ''How can I expect my realtionship with X to change in the near future?'' for which I got 51.3 moving to 55.

I am interpreting this as positive. An event or discovery is to take place soon which will disturb our friendship, but if I remain level-headed {moving line 3}, then a time of happiness is due. I find this ambiguous only in that the Judgement suggests that it is short-lived: does this necessarily mean that things are going to get awful afterwards? Or just more upheaval? I should add that I was very much infatuated with her in the past, and sometimes I still hope for something more, against all odds.

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Hmm. One thing's for sure. Big upheaval coming. This could suggest something that's reached it's peak or that there'll be a point where you should strike while the iron's hot and take advantage of the time. I guess you'll know the answer to that as things develop. My feeling is that it won't be long before you'll know.

madison said:

My next question was much more important.

''Is a radical change in attitude, outlook and beliefs necessary now?''
61.2.3 moving to 37
I hope the question isnt vague. I assumed the I Ching would understand my meaning. Frankly, I did'nt know how to word it more concisely without writing an essay.
I don't want to go on, but for years and years I have been looking for an answer to why I am so messed up and why life isn't what it was cracked up to be: a panacea to all my difficulties, in particular: who am I? Why do I never feel like ME?

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Join the club!

Life has been trying to tell you something perhaps and that "something" usually means that the outer world has been used as a means to escape from what needs addressing in your inner world. Looking "out there" as you say. 61 can gently lead you back to working on yourself in this regard. 37 may indicate re-ordering the scattered elements or little "selves" and attending to your own "family" - getting the respective roles in your personality in their correct places.

This sounds like your own personal revolution time and the above relationship is interesting in this context. I wonder how that reflects your state of mind?

If you never feel like you, there's a good bet that you've been living through others for too long and been sucked into beliefs and conditioning like we all are most of the time. We become dependent on beliefs, concepts and people that are tied to those comfort zones. 61 seems to be saying time to connect with the real you and attain some independence and self respect.

madison said:

I was looking 'out there' for the answer, but recent experiences have yielded what to me is an astonishing discovery: that the very world itself is shaped by one's belief and attitude. I mean this in a spirtual sense, although there has been liitle enough room in my life for God or spirituality, whichever form it takes. {actually, I'm half-convinced now that any given religion is a system with which to train one's perception}.

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Yeah, or to have it comprehensively hijacked.

madison said:

''The Kingdom of Heaven is already here'', according to Christ as depicted in the Gospel of Thomas. I hope this explains my meaning. Heaven, it seems to me now, is a state of mind, not a place. Likewise, who one truly is is already to be known, if one just looks the right way at things. The realization that belief and faith directly affect the world and one's experience of it has inevitably led me to conclude that my beliefs and attitudes up to this point have been WRONG, but it is difficult to let go. I asked the I Ching with this in mind: that if belief and will and vision comprise in a VERY REAL WAY what actually is, then it must be time to change my beliefs, and adopt a new vision.

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Good for you. Sounds to me you're ready for a revolution! They can be painful - in fact they always are - but eventually extremely beneficial in ways we obviously can't quite grasp at the time.

Good luck in your quest,

Topal

Hey Topal. Thank you very much for your response. You seem to understand what it is I am saying about belief, and I appreciate your positivity in the last comment. But belief is a subtle thing, I am finding. One cannot just 'force' onself to believe something different. Doing this is reinforcing old conditioning!! This is a very frustrating time right now, especially since I have, armed with this new understanding of belief, glimpsed for split seconds a richer inner world. But conscious effort to change it isn't working. Spirituality isn't something that can be taught, it seems. Hence religions hijacking our perceptions!
I am touched by your comment on the 'inner world'. This is precisely what I'm talking about. The inner defines the outer. ''Don't you know that the one who made the inside also made the outside?'' This is also from the Gospel of Thomas. I think you'll see it's meaning.
Thanks again for your input!
I still misunderstand the meaning of ''Family'' in the context of my question, though.

Also, Topal, your comment on the relationship with this girl is interesting too. Being my true self - whatever that really is - is obviously going to be crucial in any pursuit of love. I wonder if this upheaval won't be in myself ie collapsing the first domino of false beliefs, revealing ME as I actually am, and shocking her. Err, I might be being over-optimistic.

Self-obsession is the prerogative of those out of step with who they truly are.

Hi Madison,

Your story really speaks to me, as it brings back to mind an experience which is strikingly similar to what you describe - finding ones finite place in the infinity of being. Not an easy thing to do, once you strip away the facade and conditioning which you knowingly or unwittingly have become a participant with. I gave it a name, so that I had a way to explain it to myself: The challenge to believe. See if you relate to this. Kan and coyote are two aspects of being.

http://www.yijing.nl/coyote/gardentalks/challengetobelieve.htm

madison said:

'Short-lived' referred to hexagram 55. I very much hope that a third party does not get involved! A shakeup could mean that a major argument or falling-out is due, could'nt it? internal pressures being built up too long. I have been very depressed and withdrawn recently, so maybe this will be a source of consternation. Or maybe she is going to go for someone else. Ah, me. Thanks for your input. What do you think of 55?

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A shake-up isn't necessarily a negative or painful thing. If you win a lot of money, or get a big promotion, or get married, those are all big shocks and take some getting used to after you deal with the initial impact. Somebody telling you they're in love with you can be a big shock. Somebody asking you to marry them can be a big shock. Somebody getting pregnant can be a big shock. (I wonder if it's as big a shock for the little passenger inside the mother as well? "What? I'm in a body and going to be born again? Ah!!!) lol Finding yourself in a relationship after believing the depression you've been in could be a big shock. All sorts of things are possible, and they could be negative or positive.

When there's just one changing line, as in the case of your toss, I don't take the second hexagram into account, cuz I believe that the meaning of the second hexagram is built into the active line in the first hexagram. So, when I read 51.3, I believe that 53.3 already includes the meaning of 55. In this case of 51.3, the peak experience imaged in 55 is included in the intensity of the shock talked about in 51.3.

madison said:

''Is a radical change in attitude, outlook and beliefs necessary now?'' 61.2.3 moving to 37

Heaven, it seems to me now, is a state of mind, not a place.

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In the light of the recent insights you've had, you've already answered the question you put to the Yi. It isn't that a radical change in attitudes etc is necessary for you now, because (don't you see it?) you're already in the middle of the change you're asking about. The Yi reflected this issue and your inward-looking attention with Hex 61, which is about capturing inner truth. That's what you're doing right now in your life, you're capturing inner truth, and when you capture inner truth it *always* means change. It means a change of mind, of course, but if you keep at it and you get some help and you work hard and you get lucky, it also means a change of BEING. (That's why I quoted you saying that heaven is a state of mind and not a place. Of course it's not a place, but I would describe it not as a state of mind so much as a state of being - I think it's beyond mind, beyond mere thought, emotion and sensation - beyond mind in fact. I see mind as merely one aspect of being; body is another; consciousness is another.)

61.2.3>37 seems to be saying that you're in a process of capturing inner truth in a way that now makes you part of an inner group, in this case that group of people who are interested in the inner life and personal transformation.

61.2 talks about your resonating with some sort of spiritual or psychological or 'life' guide, someone who is willing to help you.

61.3 talks about an on again/off again state of mental and emotional fluctuation that you're going through - a state of inner conflict, I guess - you're being pulled in different directions.

So I guess the answer to your question is: the change you're enquiring about is actually happening now, so I suppose you can consider it as necessary lol. Keep your eyes open. It's a bit of a rough ride, but help's available.

"Firstly, I asked the I Ching ''How can I expect my relationship with X to change in the near future?'' for which I got 51.3 moving to 55."

Hex 51.3 surprises are coming your way, so be ready to act when the opportunity presents itself.

Hex 55 it suggests that progress can be made in this potential relationship, so don't hesitate go for gold.

"''Is a radical change in attitude, outlook and beliefs necessary now?''
61.2.3 moving to 37"

Hex 61.2 you are seeking an answer to your dilemma and you will find it. It all depends upon your words and actions, if your thoughts are bad then you will have problems but if your thoughts and actions are truly good then you will influence everyone around you and the results will be most beneficial to you and to everyone else. You will find the answer within yourself so don't go trying to force the issue. Spiritually, you already have what you need, you just need to find the truth that lies within you and bring it into play.

Hex 61.3 if you depend upon others too much in life then you will be subject to emotional turbulence, so learn to be more self reliant.

Hex 37 this is about knowing your place in society and how to react to others, that you should be gentle and tolerant and again your words and actions are most important.

Hi Madison,

madison said:

My next question was much more important.

''Is a radical change in attitude, outlook and beliefs necessary now?''
61.2.3 moving to 37
I was very excited about this reading ''The Truth Within'', or ''Faithfulness''. This seems to me to affirm what I am thinking. But the moving lines and the subsequent hexagram ''Family'' are a mystery to me.
If you have taken the time to read this, thank you very much. How would you interpret this this? What is meant by Family? Is this a YES to my question?
Madison

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I tend to think asking Yi Jing yes/no questions should be avoided when possible, especially when one wants to deal with change in life. In this case the answer is not yes or no yet shows the current situation and the potential from this situation.

Having said that, here is my interpretation on the theme. Hexagram 61 in this case is a relationship between the desires of the inner and their resonances with their diffusion to the outside or the outside influences affecting the desires.

The lower trigram, Dui, the inner joy is the art of heart. To enjoy the very moment, to exchange the connections one is experiencing regardless how difficult they can be to express in words. On the other hand not to be a prisoner of the feelings, emotions, desires hence to be able to lose the connection with them; therefore, the heart is again empty to receive.

The upper trigram, Xun, is the ability to spread the influences, being able to see further away, going farther away yet being able to return at the same time. It is adapting to the circumstances. On the other hand, it is also being able to connect self with the realities of life. Having a firm root as a tree yet allowing the braches to soften and yield to the stong wind.

The eye of the hexagram image is the emptiness of the heart, so one can see through to examine and realize the use of it.

Dao De jing chapter 11

Thirty spokes converge upon a single hub;
It is on the hole in the center that the use of the cart hinges.

We make a vessel from a lump of clay;
It is the empty space within the vessel that makes it useful.

We make doors and windows for a room;
But it is these empty spaces that make the room livable.

Thus, while the tangible has advantages,
It is the intangible that makes it useful.

In connection with the changed hexagram 37 which is fire below it is this emptiness of the heart that gives the warmth and therefore influence of the heart is spreading around.

My understanding is Yi Jing trying to convey a message to you, to examine yourself find the part, emotion, though whatever that is blocking the influencing ability of your true self.

Hope this helps
Togan

I haven't read through others responses in detail so I may be repeating but my experience with 51 is yes it can indicate alot of excitement and shake up but this can be largely within ones own person. I wouldn't externalise or over dramatise your answer too much. I think people tend to over dramatize 51 always thinking something earth shattering is about to happen. Well maybe occasionaly but more often than not its a shakeup of feeling nothing more.

madison said:

Self-obsession is the prerogative of those out of step with who they truly are.

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excellently worded
I would also add: "and perhaps also out of step with what they truly want."

trojan said:

I haven't read through others responses in detail so I may be repeating but my experience with 51 is yes it can indicate alot of excitement and shake up but this can be largely within ones own person. I wouldn't externalise or over dramatise your answer too much. I think people tend to over dramatize 51 always thinking something earth shattering is about to happen. Well maybe occasionaly but more often than not its a shakeup of feeling nothing more.

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Trojan is really right on this one. This 51 seems to be more internalized shifts of perception than massive dramatic changes of events..

Re your second question 61 to 37 I think thats a nice answer for want of a better word.
You don't have to do anything drastic nor castigate yourself for being 'wrong' in the past - you just return naturally following the call of the integrity of your true self/spirit whatever you call it, to where you belong, where your soul is at home, 37. I don't think one resists the call in 61,2 nor does that call have to mean human to human could be one self to another part of self.

trojan said:

you just return naturally following the call of the integrity of your true self/spirit whatever you call it, to where you belong, where your soul is at home, 37.

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I wish it were that easy.

Topal