Interpretation needed...

hexagon · Jul 2, 2007

I have had a flirtatious relationship with someone at work for over a year. After much tension and play, I finally had it out yesterday - he had been talking to a woman in the elevator who was getting off about being somewhat embarrassed by being caught by her changing in his van prior to coming to work. As I did not hear the conversation, when I got into the small elevator with him, I asked him what did I just miss. He retold the story to me, at which point I exclaimed, my God, where was I when this was happening? Then when the elevator came to a stop, as it opened, I blurted out to him "hey, is it hot in here, or is it you? I also gave some sort of "Whoo-hoo!" as he left.
Today, I got the cold shoulder. I am now embarrassed by my behaviour. So I consulted the IChing by asking for advice on correcting my outburst with him, and received:

24.1.5>8. I feel I have to face this pain and learn and grow from it.

L.

willowfox · Jul 2, 2007

Hex 24.1 says that situation like the one in the lift will happen but it is now up to you to go to go and speak with him to repair the damage before it becomes permanent, if you do then he will forgive your outburst.

Hex 24.5 this says do not try and make silly excuses for your behaviour, be honest with him, and you will be accepted again as his friend.

Hex 8 this says go explain yourself to him, so that your friendship can proceed again. It advices you not to wait but to quickly sort it out.

jimnammack · Jul 2, 2007

Hexagon:

I get the impression from Hexagram 24, Return, that you will have additional positive encounters with this guy. He will return, in other words. In The Judgment, King Wen says, "Going out and coming in without error. Friends come without blame. To and fro goes the way. On the seventh day comes the return."

The part that says "on the seventh day comes the return" seems to be saying that things between you and this guy get back to normal soon enough. Perhaps not in exactly seven days, but soon enough.

The message of The Image indicates a time of rest. This makes it seem to me that there will be a passage of a few days before he becomes flirtatious with you again.

Moving line 1 speaks of returning from a short distance. In other words, you will not have to wait very long for things to get back to normal between you two.

Moving line 5 refers to a noblehearted return. Noblehearted means that he will be of good intent.

Hexagram 8, Holding Together, (Union), indicates that you two will indeed be holding together. The Sequence says, "Holding together means uniting." In The Image, it speaks of cultivating friendly relations.

There is also a place in the text for this hexagram that says you should inquire of this oracle once again. I think that is excellent advice. If I were you, my next question would be something like: "Is this guy ever going to ask me out?"

Maybe your last flirtation with this guy broke the ice, and when he "returns," things between you two will start going in a different direction. On the other hand, these flirtations with each other might go on forever with nothing significant ever coming of them. For this reason, I would definitely do a divination asking what potential this relationship has for you, such as I suggested in the preceding paragraph.

Jim

Jim

Trojina · Jul 2, 2007

I think you answer is reassuring things will soon return to normal - don't worry too much its not as if you did anything terrible

hexagon · Jul 2, 2007

I am always blown away by the insight I receive from the IC and as importantly, am blown away by the insight and advice I receive from members on this site. Your answers have helped soothe my anxiety over this. It inspires me to know more about the depth of the IC!!
So here's the thing:
This guy who is in a somewhat "authoritative" position at work and although he will not be my supervisor for much longer due to dept. changes, any dating could be job suicide for him as well as for me. I need to decide whether to just let it go and blow away in time or take action by speaking to him about the incident, hereby bringing further attention to it.
My intuition surmises that the resulting "Union" is about working together again in harmony, and not of coming together in relationship.

Laurie

willowfox · Jul 2, 2007

hexagon said:
My intuition surmises that the resulting "Union" is about working together again in harmony, and not of coming together in relationship.

Laurie

Hex 8 is about working together in harmony with him as your leader.

Trojina · Jul 2, 2007

hexagon said:
So here's the thing:
. I need to decide whether to just let it go and blow away in time or take action by speaking to him about the incident, hereby bringing further attention to it.
My intuition surmises that the resulting "Union" is about working together again in harmony, and not of coming together in relationship.

Laurie

If i had received this reading I would just let it go by and not try to take action by speaking to him about it. I don't think your answer advises remedial action but a natural return to normal conditions - in your case normal working conditions. Line 1 says this is no big error its easily gotten over and line 5 shows some graciousness in dealings between you. Hex 24 is very much about the natural cycle of things, I don't think here it requires you to try to put things right. And as you say if you do it only brings further attention to the incident and further embarrasment.

BTW if it makes you feel any better I did a similar thing once too :rolling:

now it makes me laugh - hey and thats a good line "Is it hot in here or is it you ?" Lol I might use that myself

Anyhow it takes two to flirt - if hes been flirting with you for a year how can he be upset by a little "whoo-hoo" - some guys huh

hexagon · Jul 2, 2007

trojan said:
If i had received this reading I would just let it go by and not try to take action by speaking to him about it. I don't think your answer advises remedial action but a natural return to normal conditions - in your case normal working conditions. Line 1 says this is no big error its easily gotten over and line 5 shows some graciousness in dealings between you. Hex 24 is very much about the natural cycle of things, I don't think here it requires you to try to put things right. And as you say if you do it only brings further attention to the incident and further embarrasment.

BTW if it makes you feel any better I did a similar thing once too now it makes me laugh - hey and thats a good line "Is it hot in here or is it you ?" Lol I might use that myself

Anyhow it takes two to flirt - if hes been flirting with you for a year how can he be upset by a little "whoo-hoo" - some guys huh

Trojan:
Great to hear a guy's perspective. I've been mulling the idea of finding some way to apologize, but that brings unnecessary attention to it. It was a fun, spontaneous moment and it felt good at the moment - kinda like letting some air out of overinflated tires! I think carrying on the flirtation knowing it won't go any further is the best option.

Laurie

Trojina · Jul 2, 2007

Right this is it I have to change my forum name - see I am not a man :rolling:

I had been thinking i should explore my feminine side a bit more lately whatever that means and now everyone here seems to think I'm a guy so I'm gonna work on a new name Trojan is obviously too male - howabout Trojanella or Trojanette or maybe I'll just go for something completely different - hey well I'm assuming its the name, maybe i write like a man - i dunno I certainly don't think like one, they're a mystery to me, lol. Trojanice has a nice ring to it i think

hexagon · Jul 2, 2007

Willowfox and Jim:

Your perspectives add depth to this dilemma - thank you. Particularly helpful are Jim's commentaries of the moving lines - they are spot on. Moving Line 5 - being noble-hearted fits with his nature. He's a good guy and liked by everyone. And yes, Willowfox, I have been tempted to find some excuse for my behaviour to him - like hmmm... temporary insanity, or "it was so hot in the elevator, I lost control of my senses!"

hexagon · Jul 2, 2007

trojan said:
Right this is it I have to change my forum name - see I am not a man I had been thinking i should explore my feminine side a bit more lately whatever that means and now everyone here seems to think I'm a guy so I'm gonna work on a new name Trojan is obviously too male - howabout Trojanella or Trojanette or maybe I'll just go for something completely different - hey well I'm assuming its the name, maybe i write like a man - i dunno I certainly don't think like one, they're a mystery to me, lol.

Wow! That's a surprise... I've been reading your insightful comments since January in other messages and always assumed you were male. I love the name Trojan, and wouldn't want you to change it. It's powerful, and asserts a male persona. So now I will shift my perspective to where you are coming from, so to speak. Who says women can't be strong?
As for men, ya, they're a mystery to me too. That makes for intriguing sexual tension, drama & play between the sexes. Wouldn't want it any other way.

Laurie

luz · Jul 3, 2007

Trojanette, Trojanelle...

cute..

It's odd, Trojan doesn't sound that male to me but maybe it's because I've always known you are a woman.

Helen of Troy was the most beautiful woman in the world, or so my mom used to say to me (my middle name is Helena

) and I imagine she must have been very feminine, and wasn't she a trojan too? I vote for not changing your name!

And regarding hexagon's guy, (hey, if it wasn't for the question she asked, I think I'd think hexagon is a male) I think he was probably a bit upset because of the context. I mean, he was embarrassed because the other girl saw him getting dressed so he was probably a bit vulnerable and felt like he was being made fun of... But that should pass, no apologies necessary...

Trojina · Jul 3, 2007

Thanks for the vote of confidence in my name Laurie and Lightangel

I tried to change it but it said unless there were extreme circumstances it would not be possible to change it :rolling:

jimnammack · Jul 3, 2007

I agree with Trojan's take on this, that the matter will smooth over on its own in its own time. I think it is silly of you to apologize for being positive, honest, and open with him. That makes no sense to me. And I see no justification for it in the divination either. Most guys would be extremely grateful and flattered at such a flirtation. If there are office taboos against having romantic relationships, then I can understand his current hesitation. Perhaps he is trying to come to grips with what to do next.

I earnestly encourage you to do that follow-up question about what is to follow between you and this guy. Will your flirtatious relationship stay more or less the same, or will it get significantly better?

Jim

rosada · Jul 3, 2007

Although I agree with Willowfox, that it sounds like the I Ching is advising you to say something soothing and right away, this doesn't mean you have to make a big heavy occasion of it. A QUIET return is what is recommended. How about the next time you see him just say something quiet in passing like, "Hey, good to see ya. And guess what, I've decided to start using some manners." He'll most likely smile and give you a subtle wink - a 24.5 noble hearted return back at'cha. Of course if he doesn't, and indeed if he continues to give you the icy stare you can always then say in a loud voice, "Oh and good luck with that herpies test!" And keep moving.

hexagon · Jul 3, 2007

A little more insight into the situation...

I think I am going to take both Jim's and Willowfox' advice - apologize, but do it in a playful context.

My overall sense is David liked the attention and kinda set me up for s reaction. There was a cute elevator incident a week ago in which we were about to ride the elevator alone together when I looked at the person he had been talking with as if to say - HELP! I'm about to be on this elevator with him and can't handle it! A couple of days go by and as I was about to take the elevator again,he got on before me. So I looked at him and asked sheepishly, "is it safe to take the elevator with you?" He responded "yes" So there's this context with our elevator dance. In retrospect, I think the cold shoulder had more to do with his work load - he was under enormous pressure at work, But,
all things considered, I felt very vulnerable as his "cold shoulder" was at a vulnerable time for me as I had finally opened up to him somewhat.

I asked IC two questons - Is it advisable to apologize to David, and received 14.3>38.
then ! asked - Is it advisable to continue to flirt with David and got 32 unchanging. Is 32 unchanging to mean the attraction is there, but it will never go anywhere?

Trojina · Jul 3, 2007

32 unchanging can mean very likley things will continue as they have been for some time to come

mudpie · Jul 3, 2007

rosada said:
Of course if he doesn't, and indeed if he continues to give you the icy stare you can always then say in a loud voice, "Oh and good luck with that herpies test!" And keep moving.

LOL. coulnt resist laughing at rosadas joke.
hoewever, i wouldnt use this line unless he ws the most awful cad in the world. sounds like he is not.

32 ..continue flirting?....I dont know, I think guys like it when you back off in shyness a bit after letting the cat out of the bag..it increases the tension......maybe in this case to go as before would be boring and static

hexagon · Jul 3, 2007

32 ..continue flirting?....I dont know, I think guys like it when you back off in shyness a bit after letting the cat out of the bag..it increases the tension......maybe in this case to go as before would be boring and static[/QUOTE]

This has been very insighful - I think you nailed it - to withdraw, at least until this dies down somewhat, is a great way to keep the tension alive. This experience, and others like it with him in this dance of flirtation, can continue as it is without taking it further. There have been "openings" in the past where we could've moved further, but then I was faced with the fact that to do so would be work suicide as we work in the same place. Talking about it here has made it clear to me that I can continue to "dance" with him, knowing that that's all there is and will be.
One question - does 32 unchanging mean he's attracted too? Is there any way I can get clarity through the IC as to how to find out his position in all of this?

Laurie

Trojina · Jul 3, 2007

Because you got 32 unchanging I think the situation will go on as it is regardless of what you do really - this thing has its own momentum and 32 isn't telling you to withdraw all its doing is showing you going on much as you have been. People vary as to how they see unchanging hexagrams but my view lately is they indicate a situation somehow beyond your control, a little fated perhaps or perhaps just the only way for things to be.

I would imagine as he flirts too he must be attracted to you on some level - only what level thats the question - like is it just a game to him, a way to make the working day more fun or is there a deeper attraction going on ? You could ask the IC his position in this yes.

hexagon · Jul 4, 2007

I would imagine as he flirts too he must be attracted to you on some level - only what level thats the question - like is it just a game to him, a way to make the working day more fun or is there a deeper attraction going on ? You could ask the IC his position in this yes.[/QUOTE]

Well, I just got the proverbial slap in the face. I asked IC What is David's position with me? and received 38 unchanging (Opposition). So there it is. End of story. OUCH!

Thanks Trojan for the education and support. But Hey - just a minute!
Just as I was about to drop the gauntlet and call it a day - I intuited that I needed to ask another question: How does David FEEL about me? and got 14.6>34. So now I'm thinking he feels the same as I do. Opposition reflects our position of knowing any further action would be work suicide, but that there are feelings there we both have.
Am I right?

jimnammack · Jul 4, 2007

In the same way that one must not judge a book by its cover, one must not judge a hexagram by its title. Oppositon could merely refer to the office taboo that is keeping you two apart so far. And in this case, I think that is all it does refer to. Opposition means estrangement. The text explains also that people's minds are not directed to common concerns. In other words, his mind is split in two by his feelings for you, and his fear of repercussions for breaking the office taboo. The last line of The Image says that the superior man retains his individuality. To me, this sounds as though sooner or later he is going to go with his feelings for you, and take his chances with the office taboo.

I Ching divinations are often multidimensional, and the next one may be too. Possession in Great Measure could mean that he is crazy about you and wants to have a serious relationship with you, or it could mean that this is what will actually happen. Or both. This hexagram speaks of being ordered and clear, which seems to mean that he is quite clear in his own mind about how he feels about you.

Moving line 6 says that he is blessed by heaven, which could mean that he feels blessed by heaven to have you interested in him, flirting with him. This moving line also says, "Good fortune. Nothing that does not further." Which could well mean that you will definitely be having a serious relationship with each other before long.

Hexagram 34 is The Power of the Great. This hexagram says to persevere, that there is stong movement in your relationship, that you will behold the relations of heaven and earth.

That all sounds pretty exciting and explosive to me.

Jim

hexagon · Jul 4, 2007

jimnammack said:
In the same way that one must not judge a book by its cover, one must not judge a hexagram by its title. Oppositon could merely refer to the office taboo that is keeping you two apart so far. And in this case, I think that is all it does refer to. Opposition means estrangement.

Jimnammack:
Thank you for your insight. All this angst I've had is finding release through clarity and understanding.The Opposition is very real as we both have a lot to lose if we ventured ahead, particularly him due to his position. And as it is unchanging, that position will not change, at least while we are working together. Can I let it go, knowing at least, that he does have feelings towards me, judging by the answer to the second question?
As for your comment on the heavenly attribute (moving line 6), there is something about him that is heavenly, at least for me. He has a way of calming me down and lightening me up as I can be pretty intense.

Jimnammack, I am curious about your IC history. Have you been casting the IC for a long time? I venture to guess you have, even though you joined the online clarity community only a month ago.

willowfox · Jul 4, 2007

hexagon said:
I asked IC two questions - Is it advisable to apologize to David, and received 14.3>38.
then ! asked - Is it advisable to continue to flirt with David and got 32 unchanging. Is 32 unchanging to mean the attraction is there, but it will never go anywhere?

Hex 14.3 says that it is up to you to break the ice.

Hex 38 opposition, you are now in a state of opposition but this hex says to go and meet him half way, so that the problem can be resolved which will bring the situation back to normal. The text says success in small matters and this is really a very silly problem that can so easily be repaired.

Hex 32 says there will be no problem if you choose to continue your flirting game.

willowfox · Jul 4, 2007

Hex 14.6 > 34 this suggests that he certainly likes you.

Trojina · Jul 4, 2007

I agree 38 doesn't have to mean theres no possibilities between you just that you don't see things the same way at this time.

14.6 does look good yes but if you take my advice

don't get carried away about how someone feels just through an I Ching reading - that can lead to alot of disappointment.

I personally wouldn't draw a conclusion from how someone feels about me from the Yi alone - I might ask just to get a feeling for it but I don't think anyone can say for sure hex x means he crazy about you. Generally i find it more useful to ask how I best respond to situations as they come up in the relationship.

hexagon · Jul 4, 2007

willowfox said:
Hex 14.3 says that it is up to you to break the ice.

Hex 38 opposition, you are now in a state of opposition but this hex says to go and meet him half way, so that the problem can be resolved which will bring the situation back to normal. The text says success in small matters and this is really a very silly problem that can so easily be repaired.

WF: My moving line was 6, not 3. But somehow I sense it IS up to me to break the ice - even though I've been waiting for HIM to do the same thing. Up to me, huh? Yikes!
As for the meaning behind Opposition - it reared it's ugly head today. There's a union issue at work involving my position as many changes are taking place at the moment - and since he's on the other side of the fence, therein lies the conflict.

Trojan: Yes - I use my intuition and feedback from others as much as possible, but when it comes to affairs of the heart, I often find it too subjective to be objective. This is where the IC ( and you!) help immensely so I can separate the wheat from the chaff.

Laurie

jimnammack · Jul 5, 2007

Hexagon:

I have been doing divinations for a long time. I have a 10x10 vendor's tent, and I do fairs, Celtic festivals, psychic fairs, Scottish games (but I don't use the I Ching at these events), and other social events.

I created some tarot card systems years ago that consisted of 468 information units, not the usual seventy-eight or 156. Each card had one of six possible meanings, depending on its position is a three-card row, and depending on whether it is dealt upright or reversed. For readings I did for others, I would usually deal a layout of five rows of three cards each. The specificity of that system would boggle the mind.

When I had accumulated a bit of experience with one of those tarot card systems, I would go through it and eliminate 27 card meanings. Then I would number the information units in a different way and use them as a 441-unit dice system. I would cast four dice for each information unit, and readings would consist of various ways of putting together groups of information units. These readings really blew people away too.

Then, I used those various dice systems to create completely new I Ching oracles. Through the guidances I received through my oracles, I was always told that it was up to me to choose among the 441 dice information units the sixty-four that I wanted to use as my 64 I Ching hexagrams. After that, however, I could then use my dice system itself to select from its own 441 information units the best possible inofrmation units that should be used as moving lines, and for which hexagrams, and in what order. I used one oracle to create another.

Until recently, all the I Ching oracles I created in that way, although exciting to use at first, always fell short of my expectations. This was because the dice system I used to create it was not perfect. Finally, after over 15 years of working on this literally every day, I arrived at a 441-unit dice system that was totally flawless in every way. With that dice system I created a new I Ching system, the I Ching system that I use now. It works really amazingly. It is much, much easier to understand than the traditional I Ching, and the readings are more informative. When I compare readings about identical matters with both the Wilhelm I Ching and my own, the Wilhelm I Ching seems only to give a general gist of the situation, whereas my own I Ching gets right down to the nuts and bolts of whatever is asked about.

I have a personal library of about seventy books on the I Ching.

I have a half-finshed manuscript describing this new I Ching approach that I would like to get published someday, but it is temporarily on hold. The I Ching can be used in ways not described in any books, and I want to explore those avenues a bit more thoroughly first.

Thanks for asking. I always love talking about the I Ching.

Jim

hexagon · Jul 7, 2007

jimnammack said:
Hexagon:

Finally, after over 15 years of working on this literally every day, I arrived at a 441-unit dice system that was totally flawless in every way. With that dice system I created a new I Ching system, the I Ching system that I use now. It works really amazingly. It is much, much easier to understand than the traditional I Ching, and the readings are more informative. When I compare readings about identical matters with both the Wilhelm I Ching and my own, the Wilhelm I Ching seems only to give a general gist of the situation, whereas my own I Ching gets right down to the nuts and bolts of whatever is asked about.

I have a personal library of about seventy books on the I Ching.

I have a half-finshed manuscript describing this new I Ching approach that I would like to get published someday, but it is temporarily on hold. The I Ching can be used in ways not described in any books, and I want to explore those avenues a bit more thoroughly first.

Thanks for asking. I always love talking about the I Ching.

Jim

Jim:

Interesting insight into your depth with the IC. Have you heard of the binary system, using 010101 to interpret answers? Chris (lightreason) who is a regular participant of this site, uses and/or designed this system, and although it is well beyond me, it is fascinating to read his answers. He has a website too which you've likely been to if you are involved in the IC as much as you said.
My siutation with David, on the other hand, has come to a head. I now know he's interested in me -and is waiting for me to make the first move. Why? I don't know, but it's the hardest thing for me to do, and we are both in angst until I do! Love in all of it's manifestations - the pleasure and the pain!

Trojina · Jul 7, 2007

hexagon said:
Jim:

Have you heard of the binary system, using 010101 to interpret answers? Chris (lightangel) who is a regular participant of this site, uses and/or designed this system, and although it is well beyond me, it is fascinating to read his answers. He has a website too which you've likely been to if you are involved in the IC as much as you said.
!

So all along Chris was Lightangel ? :rolling:

i don't think so :rolling:

you mean Lightof reason

Interpretation needed...

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