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I Ching on choosing a new anti-depressant

A

anonymousthistime

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Hi

I've been taking anti-depressants for a long time. No doubt about it: I need them. But I haven't found the exact right ones for me yet (regarding effectiveness and side-effects). I'm gonna try new ones soon, which is a big step, because the whole process of stopping and starting new ones can be a big pain in the ...
Right now, I'm doubting between two pills. The psych slightly favours x, internet search seems to favour y. The choice is up to me. I asked I Ching over the last weeks:

What will happen to my anxiety and depression when I take x?

hex. 34, lines 3,4,6 changing (into 41)

What will be the general effect of x?

hex. 49, non changing

What will be the general effect of y?

hex. 30, lines 2 and 5 changing (into 1).


I have thoughts on this, but am doubting heavily. What do you think?
 

stuart

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My guess would be that using either forms of medication may benifit.You now have a choice which in its self my add some additional anxiety.
Perhaps the lines of hexigram 34 are refering to using somrthing strong and powerful.Look at the individual lines and look if that makes any sense.Is three and six excessive use.Four looks positive for inner strength through lifes trials and working with the inner self.41 could mean gradually reducing your future intake.

hexigram 30 could also mean some form of useage.Brighting yourself and looking after your inner clarity. Both lines are in harmony and the fifth is troubles eventually fading away.
to be honest knowing the i ching i would look to see if any of the medication was coloured YELLOW.Or the whole reading could refer to your overal association with medication and your anxiety.Eventually pointing to your troubles passing.
 
P

peace

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Anon -
I wouldn't take a chance with this.
I have as much respect for the I Ching as anyone -and use it all the time.
And...I'm a psychologist and I am telling you, as a professional that you need to find a good psychiatrist to help you with this.

Obviously, you are questioning the judgement you have heard - so I'd get a second medical opinion.

I might ask I Ching - the outcome if you don't take it at all.

Rosalie
 
A

anonymousthistime

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Dear Rosalie and Stuart

Thanks for your responses.


Rosalie, thanks for your answer. I would probably answer almost exactly the same thing if someone else had posted, but the thing is I already got a second opinion several times and have tried several anti-depressants. The thing is that right now, the experts say it is a matter of trying (though not too much, because of danger of developing neurological insensibility to the SSRI's). Also, as you know, there is still much unknown about what exactly makes one medicine work for one person and not for the other. So now I have to choose between "randomly" trying, or taking the Yi on which one to start with. To be sure, the psych. I consulted is not opposed to trying y instead of x, she just has experience that x works well with the specific anxiety I have. However, this result is not supported by scientific research.

Stuart, I also have a feeling both medications might be effective. As for 34, line 3 and 6 usually mean a great deal of frustration (sometimes sexual). It might mean that in the beginning anxiety may rise, even turn into irritabillity. But 41, to this question, should mean reducing of anxiety and temper. Which would be good. I don't get the 49 unchanging so much, how can such a dynamic hex. be unchanging? I don't understand it as a stable outcome. Does it mean my "inner ruling" will change one time, for the better I presume, or constantly?

Hex. 30 sounds appealing, as to the warmth, strong relationships and clarity it brings. Line 2 is very appealing, inner balance is my main wish in life. But I don't know if line 5 is that good. I feel it means deeper understanding in other people's feelings through own suffering, but is this something desirable in answer to this question? I have a feeling I have had a bit too much weeping already. And the resulting hex., no. 1, sounds beautiful but quite dominant and strong. I wonder if it's too much, a bit manic almost. What do you think?
 
R

rosada

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Dear Anon,

34/49 Powerful Change

30/1 Co-operative Sublime Success

As others have said, I too feel the I Ching is saying both x and y will give you successful results, particularly if you "persevere" and stay with the program long enough to get the results.

34/49 strikes me as being a bit rough, but even so, 49 promises success.

30/1 sounds like the medication might work with you a bit more gently. I don't see "deeper understanding in other people's feelings through own suffering" from 30.5. If there is weeping I think it's the nostalgic, cathartic sort of tears one sheds when there are miracle insights. I say hexagram 1 is a positive omen, and not manic. "Manic" implies energy that has highs and lows. Hexagram ! depicts energy that is particularly steady.

Of course you are only consulting the I Ching to help you get further insight as you make your decision, and not to be your sole guide. Still, I agree with Rosalie that you need your doctor to be fully on board with your choice. Perhaps that is another interpretation for 30, not just that the medicine co-operates with you, but also that to be right for you, you should using medication that both you and your doctor fully co-operate in choosing.

Rosada
 

cal val

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Hi Anonymous...

First of all let me say I am so sorry you have to take mood elevators... but I can tell you from experience they do work. When I was going through PTSD, they saved my life... they and some anti-anxiety drug that worked on the physical level to keep my blood pressure down. But I only used them short term. And I pray your need is short term as well.

I believe Y is, by far, the best for you. I love 30 to 1. However you look at it... creating clarity or creativity through clarity. What more could you ask for? Plus 30.2 is one of my all time favorite lines in the Yi.

I disagree with everyone else here though about X. I don't like X at all for you. 34 is about physical force or energy that you have to be careful with. Richard Rutt translates the tag as Big Injury. It's physical force or energy so strong that it can cause big injury. I think X will decrease your energy level.

Love,

Val
 
J

jesed

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Hi Anonymousthistime

Just in case the commentarie could be useful

When the question is about choise among two options, I had found more useful mathematical method than text analysis.


So, I had dare to ask for you:

Which medication is better for Anonymousthistimes? X or Y

DATE: Pig (water)
MONTH: Pig (water)
Subject Line: medication X
Object Line: medication Y
Void elements: Dragon and Snake
Answer 62.2 ==> 32

1.- Subject Line is Snake (fire). Water detroys Fire. So Snake is destroyed both by month and day. Even more, Snake is in conflict against day and month; even more, Snake is "void element". That means X medication is unuseful for Anonymousthistime

2.- Object Line is Drag?n. Is not produced neither detroyed by month or day. Is healthy in Pig season. Is Void element. That means Y madication will be useful for Anonymousthistime but it won?t be effective right away, only after some time later.

3.- Changing Line is Snake (like Subject Line). The resultant element is Pig, wich destroy original element. That means use medication X would be a waste of time.


Conclusion: X medication would be a waste of time for you; Y medication would be useful but you'll need to have patience to see its efects.

Best wishes for you and your health
 

soshin

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I am totally with Val and Jesed. Y. Much, much better.

Soshin
 
A

anonymousthistime

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Dear Rosala, Val and Jesed

Thank you so much, I'm touched by your thoughtful input because I really need help on this.
Jesed, the method you use looks intruiging but I haven't heard of it before, how does it work?
Rosala, I like your interpretation of the weeping in line 5 from 30. This kind of sorrow sounds rather attractive! Feeling connected is what I'm longing for most. So this would be wonderful.
Val, thanks so much for your kind empathic response. I'm sorry to hear you had PTSD, I hope you feel much better now. I have a different kind of anxiety, but I know what it's like to be really afraid all the time. I agree with your comment on 34, in my (quite short) experience this hex., especially with those lines, is really stressful. My doubt on it was in the way I put my question (not too smart, retrospectively speaking). I wonder if by asking what will happen to my anxiety and depression, which are the things I want to get rid off, I should reverse the meaning of the hexagrams. Any deminishing would be favourable in this way. And if those feelings were to be the animal that gets its horns stuck, that could be benificial I guessed. But my less intellectual gut-feeling agrees with you. Also, I don't like the implication of both hexagrams about sexual frustration, as this is (to me) the most invalidating side-effect that has occurred so far.
I also really like the reading for y, but don't you think that hex. 1 sometimes means ruthless assertiveness? Thereby destroying the bonds built through 30?

Thanks a lot y'all!!!
 
A

anonymousthistime

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PS
Rosala, an interesting thought that 30 implies I should have a consent from my psych. Good point. I see her next Monday so I'll find out if she's okay with it. If not, I'll have to consider the options. But this discussion confirms my feeling that y is more beneficial.
 

cal val

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Anonymous...

LAMO... check out this interpretation for 30.5 (in the Portable Dragon).

<blockquote>The man reaches the zenith of life. After experiencing certain disappointments, he recognizes the vanity of human behavior. If he modifies his value system and mood, good fortune will eventually be realized.</blockquote>Well could any interpretation address your question any better? I don't think so! It will modify your mood, and you will therefore enjoy good fortune.

And regarding 1, the way I'm reading it, I wouldn't worry about it at all since it's following 30. If it was following 29, then I'd worry I think. It's about creating whatever condition or action is in the primary hexagram. That's what Y is going to do... it's going to create the clarity. And with the clarity, you will probably be very productive and creative. It's all good... really good.

Love,

Val
 
A

anonymousthistime

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That's great! I'd love to change my value system and mood with it! I'll look out for this book, it sounds beautiful. What does zenith mean?
And about 1, also great. I hope so. Do you think that in a case like this, both hexagrams stay valid? Instead of one replacing the other completely? Does 30 form a background to 1?
This is an evening of reliefs!
 
M

micheline

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anon...You might want to check out this site. It is really worth the minimal effort...and the entire manual is free and downloadable. It almost seems too simple, but it is effective.
could be an alternative pathway for you.
www.emofree.com
 

cal val

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Oh Anonymous...

I think you have every reason to feel relief... because I sincerely believe the Yi is dancing with happy feet that you found medication Y.

Zenith means at the height of something... the peak. The tip of the antenna on the top of the Empire State Building is the zenith of that building. I don't take everything in the Yi literally. I believe it just means a man reaches a point when it's time to enjoy life. And Y will help you do that.

I love the book. His interpretations seem to be driven by experience, and he illustrates them with very entertaining quotes and passages. Sometimes the quotes and passages fit really well, somethings they don't... at any rate, they're always entertaining. I found a very inexpensive used copy (it's copyright 1971) on Amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0262690306/002-5220965-5264010?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance

Love,

Val
 
A

anonymousthistime

Guest
Dear Val and Micheline

I'm in the process of following both your leads. The EFT sounds promising, either as an alternative or extra support. I've found a cheap copy of Portable Dragon as well.

Thanks!
 
J

jesed

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Anonymousthistime

Yes, it is a quite diferent way to understand an hex. It doesn't use the text, but another kind of rules. Energetic rules, based in the 5 stage of transformation (also called 5 elements)

Another thing: when 1 is the related hexagram, is ALWAYS positive.

Best wishes
 
A

anonymousthistime

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The psych went with y, she agreed it's a matter of trying.

It's going to take some time quitting the medicine I'm on now, waiting, and starting y. It will be at least 2 months until I can say anything about the outcome of y. I'll let you know.

Thank you all very much for your contributions.
 
J

jesed

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Hi anonymousthistime
You wrote
"It will be at least 2 months until I can say anything about the outcome of y"

Yes, Yi Jing HAD told the same:
"That means Y madication will be useful for Anonymousthistime but it won?t be effective right away, only after some time later"... "Y medication would be useful but you'll need to have patience to see its efects."

I enphatize this part of the answer, just to cheer-you-up
happy.gif


Have Faith, have patience.

You are not alone in the search of health and good life. You have the best advicers (I'm not talking about me, neither the forum, but Great Masters that bless you behind Yi Jing)

Best wishes for you
 
A

anonymousthistime

Guest
Dear everybody

I'd like to give an update on the above question. I've been trying y for 3 weeks now, and it's been great. The time without medication was rocky, but now I feel stable, happy, and most importantly: almost free of obsession and anxiety. For a solid two weeks, which is longer than any period I've felt like this before. The only anxiety I have is that it will all drop somehow, I hope it will remain as stable. I never really experienced hexagram 30, lines 2 and 5, and they are a bliss. I can literally feel myself walking in the middle of the road (by the way someone suggested the pills might be yellow, they are indeed yellow/green). But the most remarkable and to me surprising effect is, that I feel very much connected to other people. I used to be scared of them most of the time at some level, and now I just feel loving. It's a wonderful feeling. It feels like a sort of enlightenment at times, like I feel connected to a source of utter joy outside myself which we are all connected to. Uhuh, I know I'm starting to sound very, very spacy!! It's just a pleasure to think about and express how happy I feel about myself, others, the medicine, my life...
Okay, enough of it! Thank you all very much for your great help. I Ching has never before had such a profound effect on my life. If it weren't for Yi, I wouldn't even have considered this specific medicine.

I'll post again in a month or two, for the long-term effect.

Love, still-anonymous
 

soshin

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Dear Anonymus,

I am very happy to hear that. I would give a million for pills like that.

Soshin
 

void

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I really appreciate it when people come back to say what happened next
happy.gif
I'm glad you feel so well.
 
A

anonymousthistime

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Hi everybody

As promised, a last update on the longer-term effects of medicine y. It's still great. I'm relieved from both obsessions and depression. Life-changing. Very happy about it and thanks again for your help.

Love, Anonymous for the last time!

PS Soshin: finding an appropriate anti-depressant is like finding the right key on a lock from a great amount of possible keys. But I think it's much worth the effort. My medicine might or might not work for you, but if you want to know more details, please post a message here and I'll contact you.
 
J

jesed

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Hi Anonymous

Congratulations for the result. At the end, after all theoretical discussions (historical, mathematical, linguistical, philosophical...), this is the SENSE of the Yi Jing: help people to make wiser choises to improve their lifes.

Best wishes
 

soshin

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Hi, Anonymus

So happy to hear from you everything is great. Would you care to contact me by email? Thank you!

Soshin
 
A

anonymousthistime

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Hi everyone
A long-term update (8 years later): the meds are still great. Little side-effects, they work properly. I've quit them a few times, but had a relapse of depression each time so I've been advised to take them long term. I'm blessed and very grateful towards the I Ching for helping me out in this choice. Hopefully it will help someone with the same hexagram and lines. I was worried about the tears in line 5. There've been tears, of course, but these were the kind of tears that actually helped, you know? Not the endless ones. And tears of joy as well. Through this medicine, I've found:
-light and connection (hexagram 30)
-power (hexagram 1), only it took years for me to find it. I guess after taking it for 4 years, I was able to take responsibility for my life and get in charge. More and more (still working on it).

Thanks!!
 

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