I wanted to know why my relationship with him is so tumultous. Moments of peace are fleeting and either one of us would shake it up again. The tumultous days are unbearable, but it never really ends.. as in, we find it hard to break off.

Back then when he was my friend, just a friend, things were so wonderful. I wonder what has changed? It always seems better to be friends with some people than be in a relationship with them. I feel that he treats his friendships nicer - maybe it's the formality? But somehow when I get close to him it's a bit of a different thing.

I asked the I ching "Why are my relationships tumultous, and will it improve?"

27.2.4 -->38.

I then asked, what can he provide in the relationship?

16.4-->2.
2 seems to stand for devotion?

Then I don't see why our relationship is so rocky. We're both libras so I know peace means alot.. and I always envision some other scenario with him, but it's not working. It's as if I and him, or either one of us really likes the rockiness.

I asked the I ching "Why are my relationships tumultuous, and will it improve?"

27.2.4 -->38.

You are looking to this man for love and support but he does not or cannot provide it and so the problems and misunderstandings will continue.

Willow, her first question was a general one I think, and not about the guy or present relationship in particular (although the present relationship triggered the asking about the general situation).

spica said:

I asked the I ching "Why are my relationships tumultous, and will it improve?"

27.2.4 -->38

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Your relationships are tumultuous because you're feeding your mind on impressions that inevitably polarize situations. Between the lines, that means you should try to identify the sort of assumptions you have about romantic relationships, because it's those assumptions about the nature of relationships which is feeding you the experiences you have in relationships. For example, imagine somebody who assumed (consciously or unconsciously) that they didn't deserve love; somebody like that would interpret everything that happened in a relationship in that light - everything that they experienced, every impression they took in, would be colored by that assumption that they weren't really worthy of love. And you know what the net result would be? They would, consciously or unconsciously, find ways to disbelieve every expression of love by the other person, find ways to sabotage the things that made the relationship successful and strong, find ways to not receive or give love.

But only you can find what the assumptions are in your personality and upbringing that color your impressions about relationships. But the Yi's saying THAT is what you're feeding your mind on, and THAT is what is making your love life topsy turvy.

spica said:

I then asked, what can he provide in the relationship?

16.4-->2.

Then I don't see why our relationship is so rocky. We're both libras so I know peace means alot.. and I always envision some other scenario with him, but it's not working. It's as if I and him, or either one of us really likes the rockiness.

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It might be you that's tending toward the rockiness, based on the response you got to your question. 16.4 talks about things coming together quickly, and 2 talks about actively accepting things, so the Yi's saying something like this: "In this relationship, he's the force that brings things together enthusiastically, the force that accepts the relationship and you as you are." That's a positive attitude to have in a relationship, right? It's not a source of rockiness. But think about it a minute. You asked: "What can he bring to the relationship?" That energy might be potential at the moment, and might need you to help bring it out in him by showing him you like him and trust him and aren't going to judge him.

dobro said:

Willow, her first question was a general one I think, and not about the guy or present relationship in particular.

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Hi,

Her opening paragraph said this; "I wanted to know why my relationship with him is so tumultuous. Moments of peace are fleeting and either one of us would shake it up again. The tumultuous days are unbearable, but it never really ends.. as in, we find it hard to break off."

So I really think that she is asking about the man she is currently involved with.

Yeah, I clocked that. But the question she put to the oracle was: "Why are my relationships tumultous, and will it improve?"

Maybe she had both questions in her mind - I mean after all, the question she actually asked had two distinct parts, so maybe it was a three-part question actually.

Let's ask her lol.

Spica, was your question about the guy in particular, your relationships in general, or both?

Hi kind folks,

Yes, it's actually both. Actually both of your answers are correct, but dobro hit the nail on the head, regarding the 3 part question.

The reason why I phrased my question so haphazardly is because I didn't even know which to ask, and I figured asking a general question may give answers that were wider in case I missed out something. The question "Why are my relationships tumultous, and will it improve?" is actually directed at myself.. as in I was asking the oracle if there's something in me that sets off tumultous relationships.. "will it improve" is asking about my current relationship.

However, I am also asking about the man I am currently with, because the relationship with him is actually the one I'm most concerned about. I haven't had any proper relationships before him, and I don't know if me and his relationship is considered proper too.

I agree, dobro, that it's my expectations that may not be met.

I've been thinking very hard and for very long about this - whether it's really him or me. I don't know, but I've tried very hard to make things work between me and him, but somehow I get the feeling that he doesn't compromise. Willowfox is thus right about him not being able to provide the love and support I desire.

I think he does accept things, he's very accepting, but that may not bode very well for change and growth. He seems to like things the way they are now, which is really neither here nor there. He's a nice guy.

However, things were very badly in the distant past, and recent past. I sort of 'got involved' with him 3 years ago, and it's been a rollercoaster ride, moreso at the beginning. He sort of 'broke' up with me at first and then wanted to get back, and now I'm the one who thinks that it's going nowhere. So I've been trying to 'break' the connection with him, but it seems to be impossible. I figured I could take my mind off him for a few days, and it works really well, but he will show me his sincerity and that it's not over.

It's much easier being friends, especially when it is impossible to force someone (namely him) to be what I wish he would be..

I figured (not to sound fickle) that even if I broke off with him the next relationship may play out the same way because I haven't resolved this with him and could never really understand why it's working out the way it is.

And I really love him - I guess it's because he's my very longtime friend. There's always an unbreakable connection there that's stuck. And I am apt to say it is his fault,and then revert it back to it being mine, because I really can't see clearly. Alot of advice I have are logical on both sides, and lots of times it's because the advisor has a connection to either me or him.

So.. it's a complicated thing. Even if I found the answer, I'm not sure he's willing to dance to my tune of newfound solution. It's weird, this one.

Actually I don't really understand the iching either.
Sometimes I ask a question and it culminates in a "23" which is splitting.
Sometimes it's a stagnation, and sometimes it's a progress and marriage to a young lady.

So, i'm wondering if the oracle is mirroring my confusion back to me, and is not set in stone?

I've also been dabbling with the tarot here and there, and only recently have I understood the symbolisms in greater depth. I get 10 swords alot, which signals the end of the relationship, but as I know, my relationship never ends, because it has ended too many times, and I realise it hasn't really ended at all. I feel this is something that cannot be consciously controlled. It is so much easier being friends. Being partnered with someone is like going ino their consciousness, which is hardly serene.. there's the thought of being together or breaking up forever which may scare either party or make them depressed, but if we were friends, or if we looked at it detachedly, things are still the same, perhaps it's our fears that's it.

By the way who truly parts? I've had seperations from friends but they're always in my memory, so I don't really know what a 'breakup' means.

Forgive my ranting :embarassed:
feel free to add your thoughts if you wish, and once again thank you for your sincere empathy towards my situation.

See, I asked the oracle one more time, in a different way:
"Will he walk away from me?"

The result is 35.5 -->12

Hex 35
Like the Sun rising effortlessly upward at the dawn of a new day, you will find yourself elevated to new heights. This fortunate hexagram suggests career advancement and recognition for a job well done. Expect greater responsibility, prosperity and kinship. This is an opportunity to benefit others while experiencing your own radiance and splendor. Your inner nature grows in brightness and purity. This is a time of awakening to your life's purpose.

The changes to line 5 indicate: "Stabilizing Your Level"- Know that your new position is secure, despite small bumps and minor failures. Stay present with whatever situation arises and remind yourself to keep unattached to the outcome. The prize you are seeking is already here.

(The prize.. the prize!!??)

hex 12
This ominous hexagram symbolizes heaven and earth out of balance. Creative energies are flowing the wrong way, and little is accomplished. Ideas and projects stagnate, and enthusiasm disappears. Those who are not worthy of accomplishment are on the rise. Lesser men and women dominate the scene. Wise men note that the situation is dangerous and withdraw into introspection, modesty and meditation. Very little of value can be accomplished at this time.

So it;s a stagnation again

I think you two need a higher purpose. Some focus you both share, some interest beyond your mutual appreciation to give your relationship inspiration. Otherwise I think 12. Stagnation is saying you don't interest each other enough to stay inspired/connected. (The unheavels may have been an unconscious attempt to hold each other's interest.)

The trigrams of hexagram 38 point less to Marrage and more to Friendship between two independant spirits - Li the top trigram is Individuality and Tui below symbolizes Fellowship. Seems to say you could easily enjoy light hearted chit chat, but deeper bonding is going to require a deeper purpose. Perhaps if you had some Project you were working on together?

This is a bit of a cliche and not Yi related but i think its true. If relationships are always tumultuous and don't work out well all the answers lie in your relationship with your self. You can only receive from others what you are ready and able to receive and if you are not able to take that nourishment ( doesn't hex 27 come up somewhere) then changing partners won't make much difference - you have to change your self. I think ones relationship to the self is the most important one

trojan said:

I think ones relationship to the self is the most important one

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That's right. So, how's your relationship with yourself these days, darling?

Tumultuous darling. Whats your point and why are you calling me darling ?

Imagine an arched eyebrow and a slightly camp style as I deliver the 'darling' word, darling. It's meant to be entertainingly ironic. It doesn't work so well on the ol' interweb. I need more and better smilies.

Ah I see, well my relationship with myself is also paranoid then cos i thought you were critisizing me - sometimes people use 'darling' in a really sarcastic way -so what i must have been doing was projecting my criticism of myself on to you.

Anyway my relationship with myself is pretty rocky, we are always fighting and then making up, slamming doors, throwing stuff about, then saying sorry and often one of us really doesn't act at all in the interests of the other - and lately its just become abundantly clear to me/us that unless we get it together between ourselves we're just going to have the same crap in any relationship we undertake over and over. The thing is it could take a lifetime to work things out so do we have to be lonley till then ? Dunno its something we argue about.

Mm...sorry. I wasn't trying to push buttons or score points, I was clowning with a view to some good conversation maybe. See, the reason I responded to what you said at all was cuz I agree with it about 100% - I think that one's relationship with oneself is the most important one, cuz if that's not working, then no relationship with another person will work either. This is really important to me for different reasons. I'll blah blah for a while. Pick one if you're interested:

* I think that we're not one personality, but multiple personalities, shifting 'I's that take turns coming to the fore and claiming the 'I' for a while before another one occupies the 'I' chair. That's why a person can be calm and happy one moment and in tears the next; confused one moment and enraged the next; scared one moment and laughing the next (Hex 51). I used to think I was one person with different mental states; now I believe I'm actually a number of personalities which take turns being 'I'.

* I also think that it's not so much one's relationship with oneself that's important, as getting to know the different personalities in me - how they work, what triggers them, how they operate when they're active, how often they're activated, how I can deal with them, how to weaken them if they're problematic, how to encourage them and sustain them if they're useful - that sort of thing. In a word, self-knowledge.

* I think self-knowledge is important for two reasons. For one thing, if you know yourself better, sometimes small afflictions dry up and blow away on their own. This has happened with me. Sometimes you have to put work into it though, and train yourself to change attitudes and behaviors, but for the intermediate stuff, it can work if you're willing to put in the effort and if you get the help of like-minded people. Support is so important. But for some things, you can't change. It's important to recognize that.

* If you come to know something about yourself that you can't change, there's two things. One, stop wasting your time trying to change or beating yourself up for it - accept it in other words. A friend of mine went through a series of DISASTROUS relationships and concluded in the end that relationship is not good for her, and not for her in this lifetime. She's happier now. Two, it's possible I believe to develop a new dimension of being in oneself at a higher level of consciousness than you're at now. (I think this is an idea you don't like much, but I really believe it. Maybe I believe it because I NEED to believe it, so if you don't like it much, please don't trash it too enthusiastically lol.) At a higher level of consciousness, the stuff that bothered you and hurt before doesn't bother you or hurt so much now.

There's more, but I'm probably getting boring. Long posts intimidate people. But you see, I'm really interested in this and that's why I 'darlinged' you. (insert arched eyebrow smilie here)

dobro said:

* I think that we're not one personality, but multiple personalities, shifting 'I's that take turns coming to the fore and claiming the 'I' for a while before another one occupies the 'I' chair. That's why a person can be calm and happy one moment and in tears the next; confused one moment and enraged the next; scared one moment and laughing the next (Hex 51). I used to think I was one person with different mental states; now I believe I'm actually a number of personalities which take turns being 'I'.

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I've never taken to the idea of multiple personalities much. I'm always the same person with just different weather conditions so to speak. Like the sky, one minute cloudy, next minute sunny, depending on prevailing conditions, wind currents and so on lol. I'm still the same sky. Of course I suppose one engages different aspects of personality to deal with differing scenarios but I never got that thing where people label different parts of their personality, they all meld in together and i think its more to do with the role you are required to fulfill at any moment.

* I also think that it's not so much one's relationship with oneself that's important, as getting to know the different personalities in me - how they work, what triggers them, how they operate when they're active, how often they're activated, how I can deal with them, how to weaken them if they're problematic, how to encourage them and sustain them if they're useful - that sort of thing. In a word, self-knowledge.

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I don't think getting to know the self happens totally by intellectual analysis of parts, that seems to me another way to tie oneself up in knots, keeping an eye on oneself, monitoring oneself. I think getting to know the self only involves stripping away or abandoning all the constructs and stories one has made up about oneself and ones personality. None of these parts are probably very real or relevant they just serve a purpose in ones life at the moment a bit like clothes. Clothes may be useful and protective and attractive but they shouldn't be taken as having more significance than that IMO - and thats how I see the multiple personality thing - like clothes.

* I think self-knowledge is important for two reasons. For one thing, if you know yourself better, sometimes small afflictions dry up and blow away on their own. This has happened with me. Sometimes you have to put work into it though, and train yourself to change attitudes and behaviors, but for the intermediate stuff, it can work if you're willing to put in the effort and if you get the help of like-minded people. Support is so important. But for some things, you can't change. It's important to recognize that.

Click to expand...

I get stuck because I get muddled between talking about knowing self as who I am now and in the more spiritual sense of who I've always been. Anyway yes I agree knowing yourself is very important because in relationships if you don't know yourself or you have a crap attitude to and relationship with yourself your chances of a happy fulfilling relationship are close to zero. I used to think the problem was all with the person I was with at the time and that if i changed partners things would be better so I sampled all personality types, calm and placid, fiery and volatile but somehow i always ended feeling the same emotions about the relationship which in the end led me to the conclusion it must be me .

*

If you come to know something about yourself that you can't change, there's two things. One, stop wasting your time trying to change or beating yourself up for it - accept it in other words. A friend of mine went through a series of DISASTROUS relationships and concluded in the end that relationship is not good for her, and not for her in this lifetime. She's happier now. Two, it's possible I believe to develop a new dimension of being in oneself at a higher level of consciousness than you're at now. (I think this is an idea you don't like much, but I really believe it. Maybe I believe it because I NEED to believe it, so if you don't like it much, please don't trash it too enthusiastically lol.) At a higher level of consciousness, the stuff that bothered you and hurt before doesn't bother you or hurt so much now.

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Yes I agree with that. Finding a 'higher' level of consciousness is to my mind the most important thing in life so I'm not sure why you think i won't agree with you ? Where i differ from you is i think it is not a matter of striving to get to this 'higher' place as if it were 'somewhere else' but a matter of stopping fighting against finding the higher place if that makes sense. IOW I think the 'higher place' is always there and always has been but we're pretty scared of it being very firmly attached to uur illusion of seperateness - so its like as much as we long for it we are also terrified of it - needlessly of course, but thats where the battle is seemingly - we battle against the surrender we desperately long for. Some people seem to think we can reach this level by reading books and making decisons and analysis but they end up in exactly the same place because these alone do not expand consciousness. Some kind of spiritual practise is needed also think, like meditation etc there are already too many books in the world
dontcha think, maybe we just need to close our eyes a bit more often

I read a different definition of "dimension" that intrigued me. The fellow suggested that rather than think of the Universe in terms of levels and dimensions, to visualize ourselves as generating vibrations as our heart beats. The thoughts we are entertaining are remolded by our understanding and sent out into the Universe - the grid - via our breathing. Air is the universal ocean, so the thoughts we think, the opinions we have that shape these thoughts, go out into this ocean and are moved forth by the beating of the heart creating waves just like tides in water and like the tides, they go forth and then come back to us only now the thoughts have condensed just as a wave coming back to shore is a huge mound of water, and so the thoughts now can be seen, they manefest as an event or even as a physical object, but really it is just thought waves coming back to the source. Because people in general are sharing the same thoughts, are on the same vibration, the combined attitudes create what has been discribed as a dimension, but which might be also understood as a density.
If this doesn't make sence it's because I haven't completely understood the idea, but since I've been playing around with it I've gotten some positive results. Particularly in the area of if you don't like what you're seeing, don't bother trying to fix it, come back to your heart chakra and entertain some thought like, "Good intent, good intent" and then breath and visualize yourself breathing not out of your nose but out of your heart. Shortly you should see the situation changing and manefesting more to your liking.

I get value from thinking of ourselves in terms of mutiple personalities. Whether it's "true" or not, the idea helps me negotiate the day. For example, if there is a temptation to eat that second donut or to leave the bed unmade telling myself that another me is going to be here shortly and I wouldn't want to leave things in a mess for the new occupant gets me inspired to behave.

Yes i think we get caught on phrases like 'higher', 'lower' self they kind of trap us . If we use the word 'higher' we start to think of it like a mountain we have to climb,whereas to use a common analogy its more like the sun behind the clouds. always there just obscured - also there isn't really a good replacement phrase for 'higher self' so it may have to do

I anticipate future selves kind of, although i think it more in terms of states or moods than multiple personalities. Funny you should mention bed making Rosada, I'm always reluctant to undertake that small task but yes I anticipate its not a pleasing sight later on in the day !

I liked the ideas about dimensions you described, who was the writer ?

Enjoying reading everyone's contributions on this thread. Rosada & Dobro, add another member to the 'multiple personality club'. That rings true for me too.

I listened to a famous artist's interview today in which she said we all have a specific fate and we can only live out that fate, no other one. (You may or may not agree). But ever since I've been stuck in philosophy mode this evening so this thread is coming in handy!

trojan said:

dontcha think, maybe we just need to close our eyes a bit more often

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Not use the intellectual part of ourselves exclusively or primarily, I'd say. Watch and observe ourselves in action, I'd say; taste the experience, I'd say, and stop thinking about it. We need to read and study though, but then we need to close the book and go inside and find out what's really there and do some inner gardening.

But we're really close, actually. In the same quadrant, I think. I didn't know that before.

When faced with a task I am uncertain of I've been known to command, "Will the part of me that knows how to do this please take control!"

rosada said:

When faced with a task I am uncertain of I've been known to command, "Will the part of me that knows how to do this please take control!"

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LOL

Lovely. I love it.

Trojan, in answer to your question as to who I was paraphrasing, I got those ideas from David Wilcock's web page. I think it's called project camelot.org or .com or just google David Wilcock. He believes he is the reincarnation of Edgar Casey. He has a video of an interview and I got the ideas from reading the transcript of the video. After reading the transcripts I noticed all sorts of syncronisities happening in my life for the next couple of days - as if focusing on his ideas somehow got my own thinking tuned up.

Thanks dobro!
Positive feedback really boosts the chi.


(Note to self: be more responsive to people when they go to all the trouble to post on this site.)