Hi,

I don't want to be too long winded about this but I lived with a group of people last year - 12 in a house- during my second year of uni- and enjoyed myself but the majority were already a group and me and my friend found it hard to assimilate (my friend especially) and feel totally accepted by the group - largely due to the elitist/ bad attitude of one guy who probably didn't deem us cool enough (we're quiet shy types I guess) and I personally take a while to feel confident/ myself with people.. especially groups..

Anyway my friend was away alot of the time so I intergrated more and made good friends with the one girl of that group - and a couple of the guys kind of - anyway this year, though I wanted to live with them again, I didn't (prob to the relief of one or two)
and now live nearby and so often see my friend/ go out with them.

However still don't feel 100% comfortable as have had trouble with friends in the past - but have been offered to live with this girl again next year, with another girl and a couple of the guys (one of whom I don't feel I made a proper connection with last year though I like him well enough..) Initially I was happy about this cause really don't want to have to live with strangers again next year - and I'd like to maintain friendships and I have had fun with them in the past - but I'm scared that I'll be putting myself in the wrong place because I don't feel secure in their general acceptance/ impression of me..

I feel its a bit of a predicament but maybe it isn't one really, and I'm just scared it'll go wrong like it has before, and maybe sabotaging it?? I basically have low self esteem but I'm working on it!! I think I'm doubting it now because I've been feeling a little more inhibited recently.. now when I should be feeling more relaxed! ( I can be a bit backwards sometimes..) so maybe i'm being unfair because I do recognise them as good people.. but am I meant to be with them?

Anyway I got hexagram 63 - does this suggest that living with them would be the right direction?? I'd very much appreciate an outsider view/ instinctive reaction to the situation I've tried to express... Thanks a lot :S

Did you get 63 with no changing lines?
If so, it looks fairly positive. Everything is in place the way it should be. Things may change over time, but forewarned is forearmed, so you can anticipate any problems and head them off at the pass.

Hex 63 without moving lines?

Hi,

Asking a totally general and totally future question is often difficult as the Yi answers in terms of current process which like all momenta changes when things change (including asking the Yi about them--a bit of Heisenberg).

You say you have a current offer to live with some of the more interesting folks for you from the prior house mate situation. Without an oracle I would suggest that you speak to whoever made you the offer and find out if it were a specific invitation that they are interested in YOU joining them or just they needed one more to share the bills. But that is just the parent in me.

Accepting your premise, you asked the Yi should I accept the offer and live with these house mates and got back hex 63 without any moving lines. When an oracle hexagram has no moving lines, it is as though the resultant hexagram is the same hexagram again. Or the hexagram as a whole is highlighted and each of the lines in the hexagram is thus also highlighted.

Hex 63 is a special hexagram, it is composed of an equal mix of Yang lines and open Yin spaces with each Yang line in an odd numbered space and each Yin in the even line places. This is called completion in the traditional commentaries, everything is in its detailed place. Having attained its perfect details, the next changes would be less perfect. Of course, perfection isn't any fun though.

This hexagram is called Already Finished in Gia-Fu Feng's Taoist translation and The Morning After in my Flux Tome. As an oracle it indicates that what was going on last time you lived with these people is completed and what is available this time is different and will require more effort and attention from you to go well.

Now the separate question of are you going to sabotage your living situation and house mate relationships is worthy of its own Yi oracle as it is important for you whatever your living arrangements.

In any event, your oracle suggests that things will be different living with these folks this upcoming year than it was before. Whether that implies that it will be better or worse, I would interpret as pretty much being more up to your interactions with the house mates than the Yi comment, though others take the commentary lines literally.

I would recommend a middle course. Spend some time with these house mates, go out for a meal together and engage in conversation. If you are into sabotaging yourself, you may well experience that. It also gives an opportunity for you to experience interacting with the house mates without having to hassle moving your stuff around first.

If you find you like these folks but wonder what is their interaction with you beyond what you hear and they overtly say....try a bit of a Yi experiment. Ask any of the people you care what they intend in their relationship with you to tell you 2 natural numbers, 1-64, either the same number twice or two different numbers. It is a simple parlor game and just about anyone is intrigued. Carefully write down their names and their numbers, it is their oracle of conversation with you. Hopefully, do it with room to write in the oracle hexagram that would be required to have the first number become the hexagram of second number (every line place that is different must be a moving line).

If things are going very well, you can try just interpreting the oracles yourself on the fly. If that seems a bit dicey, say you have to consult your text about what it all means. In general, if there is a major situation that you NEED to know about it will be clear. If not you have time to mull over the oracles. And of course if you need help come back and ask.

Frank

Hi Em,

63 is about a situation that is stable right now, but is very delicate. If a lot of work is put into keepings things going, they might continue to be OK. But if anything is taken for granted, or left alone, it will fall apart.

It is hard to get 12 people to agree about anything! Since you feel insecure with other people, wouldn't it be simpler to have just one or two roommates? On the other hand, if you are willing to do a lot of work - to learn and grow, overcome your inner doubts, maybe expand your social skills - then the big shared house could be a nice situation.

I think your reading really says that the quality of your results here is limited by the quality and quantity of the work you put into the situation. How hard do you want to work to have a peaceful home?

That's great thanks all!! It's really good of you to take the time out and help

Just a question though I'm not too clear on the moving lines thing - I use 3 coins to get a hexagram - is the moving lines to do with asking the same question again? To see what the hexagram changes in to?
I'm not sure you see if that result had moving lines or not... I could ask the question again tonight and see?

Thanks Frank that's interesting insight and I do need to just talk to them more but one of them is a bit unresponsive sometimes.. although that could be my paranoia...
I guess you mean for me to just ask them to tell me two numbers randomly between 1-64? I could try that though I'd need to make up a reason..

I mean it should be ok because it's only 5 of us as it stands.. but yeah I guess only time will tell as to whether there are stable enough foundations there...
I am going out with them all on Weds night so we'll see how that goes! I guess I'm just aware that because there is the prospect of living with some of them again next year the dynamic has changed a bit and maybe I feel pressure to prove myself.. But the girls are really nice and supportive.. but I just can't help but worry!

Thanks again!!

63

After Completion

Fording the River

Navigating the Stream of Life

Keywords: Completeness, Conclusion, Endgame, Death,
Attaining perfection, Finalising, Keeping things going,
Maintenance, Maintaining momentum, Afterthoughts,
Hindsight, Change for change's sake.

Interpretation: After benefiting from a crucial insight and,
by keeping ourselves small, we discover our opening, it
follows then that we shall find ourselves on the right path.
So, After Completion describes a time when we find
ourselves proceeding in a direction that is right for us. It
also, describes the potential pitfalls we might encounter
along the way.
Difficulties have been resolved. What we are doing, the
direction we are moving in, is correct. We have entered the
stream of our life, picked up the vital current and can feel it
carrying us along. It is as if things take care of themselves
without the need for our constant intervention.
Or we can liken the times to our crossing a swiftly flowing
river. Having decided on our course we are fording it from
one side to the other. We find ourselves in balance and on
the correct course. This is right and we should go on. Now
is not the time to look around for other options.
But also, at times when things are going well, when we are
pursuing the correct course, we should take care not to
forget the possibility of a reversion to chaos, to confusion
and losing the way. Only our awareness of danger keeps us
safe and here we should take care not to lower our guard or
take the good times for granted. Nor we should we fall prey
to debilitating doubts about our ability to sustain our course.
Rather, all that is needed is a return to neutrality and
acceptance of our direction. We must neither ignore things,
nor regard them too closely.
Equally we have to understand that nothing lasts for ever.
What has come to fruition and is at its peak now can only be
sustained so far before a natural process of change leads to
decay, through which a new direction will reveal itself. If
we have maintained our sense of balance in sustaining
things this far, then we will recognise the new direction for
its potential, when it arises, and we must then work towards
it.
If, in making the crossing we suddenly find the water too
deep or the current too strong, deliverance does not come by
ploughing on blindly, but by reading the situation as we
come to it and allowing ourselves to be guided by the
opportunities that present themselves.

from The Hexagrams of the Book of Changes by Michael Graeme (2007) (free ebook).

Tony_L said:

Did you get 63 with no changing lines?
If so, it looks fairly positive. Everything is in place the way it should be. Things may change over time, but forewarned is forearmed, so you can anticipate any problems and head them off at the pass.

Click to expand...

Hello Tony,

Just wondering how you know whether they are changing lines or not?
Do you find out if you throw the coins for a second time?

Thanks,
and I do think the syncronicity of the i-ching is remarkable because the interpretation of 63 fits so closely with my issue!
I'm still unsure but I know only time will tell..
Is it a good idea to ask again?

On moving lines...

em ching said:

That's great thanks all!! It's really good of you to take the time out and help

Just a question though I'm not too clear on the moving lines thing - I use 3 coins to get a hexagram - is the moving lines to do with asking the same question again? To see what the hexagram changes in to?
I'm not sure you see if that result had moving lines or not... I could ask the question again tonight and see?

Thanks Frank that's interesting insight and I do need to just talk to them more but one of them is a bit unresponsive sometimes.. although that could be my paranoia...
I guess you mean for me to just ask them to tell me two numbers randomly between 1-64? I could try that though I'd need to make up a reason..

I mean it should be ok because it's only 5 of us as it stands.. but yeah I guess only time will tell as to whether there are stable enough foundations there...
I am going out with them all on Weds night so we'll see how that goes! I guess I'm just aware that because there is the prospect of living with some of them again next year the dynamic has changed a bit and maybe I feel pressure to prove myself.. But the girls are really nice and supportive.. but I just can't help but worry!

Thanks again!!

Click to expand...

First, moving lines tell you how the oracle hexagram changes to a different hexagram, all in the same oracle. Hex 1 with the bottom line moving yields an oracle of hexagram 1, judgment and image, line 9 in the first place, and hexagram 44 as the resultant hexagram when the moving line changes from yang to yin--all one oracle.

This may explain why you got an oracle without moving lines, the Yi oracle tends to speak to us where we are.

In terms of my remarks, first I did NOT suggest just talking to them out of the blue or asking them for numbers without telling them why. My intent was to suggest you share time with them at a restaurant or bar where you could all be together sharing food and drink and engaging in conversation. It is known in philosophy as commensality, popularized much in the ancient world by a fellow from the Galilee.
If you are all going out Wednesday nights that seems a great option. Buy something for the table.. a pitcher of beer or an appetizer.

In terms of the two number oracle technique, DON'T be devious. Tell them you are learning the Oracle of the I Ching and the numbers will express what it is they wish to say to you about living together. Truth is a good thing and generally popular especially with college students. DO NOT try to prove yourself--try to BE Yourself and clearly express yourself--it just shortens the time required to get to Clarity.

In general, spending time at table with food and drink is a good thing for college students and the portal to revealing more about what the future together will bring than most other options. When you are a boy and girls are being supportive that is a good thing and calming down about it is an essential thing.

Perhaps your oracle of hex 63 was saying that things were going along very well, but pay attention to your issues and don't screw things up. The line judgment for hex 63.6 comes up...if after successfully meeting the challenge (crossing the big river in a little boat) you can only get your head wet if you lean over too far looking back and wondering how you did that you fall overboard. Try reading all the moving lines for advice to you--in an oracle without moving lines, all the lines are included, they just come together to make this oracle rather than moving toward a different hexagram.


Asking the same question twice for confirmation is often considered impolite, consider the judgment to hex 4. BTW do you have a copy of the I Ching text? Wilhelm perhaps?
Keep a journal of your coin tosses, questions and results it will help your early learning process. Rather than asking again, try remembering--when you cast 3 coins, did they ever come up all heads or all tails--those are moving lines.

It would make a difference in this oracle since a moving line would indicate that the situation or complete ordering had already started to move to some disorder of some kind which needs to be addressed. Overall hex 63 arises from nuclear hex 64 Before Completion or Eve being pushed along by events--so something is going on--but the details matter.

In general it is better to fully process the oracle you have before moving on to a new one. Yi Oracles can be habit forming and developing the habit of throwing more coins as a reaction to an oracle quickly becomes a slippery slope.

Frank

In my experience receiving 63 for a question like "is this the right thing" means yes it is

Thankyou I get it now and will pay attention to the combination the coins give me in future rather than just taking them as straight/ broken lines
And yes I have in the past asked the same question more than once and got 'Youthfull folly' which although made me feel silly it also excited me because it's amazing how the I-Ching really does speak to you

I do wonder though whether the hexagrams you get are actually brought about by you/ your unconscious, or an external spirit guide type thing, or synchronicity/ coincidence?? (whoever or whatever brings that about But I guess that's something we'll never know for sure...

Thankyou, it's good to hear that simple positive interpretation above!
And Frank yes you're right it is my issues holding me back here and crippling me with maybe uneccessary fear I need to believe in myself etc.. and just be open to the prospect instead of threatened, and develop on my relationships here... and see how it goes.. there is pleanty of time yet until the move would happen (probs August)

It's funny because insecurity is NOT helpful to anyone (least of all yourself!) yet it's so hard to shake off!! I'm hopefully going to see a uni counsellor for a few sessions which I think is a step towards improvement... I would love to shake it off once and for all and not be so dependant on social approval! But I guess everyone is to some degree or another... sigh

Em, this is my own opinion not from the Yi... but I have to say, I really admire your seeking counseling to learn new thought habits. Many years after I first learned about therapy, I'm finally able to have regular sessions with a very good therapist. It is so helpful!

Isn't it strange that many people think nothing of paying to get step by step instructions to drive a car or do a job, but somehow don't feel OK about getting help with learning to THINK?

Hex 63 says yes but to watch out for problems later in the year, and the way to get around them is to remain vigilant and nip them in the bud before they can get bigger, so quite simple.

mesmer said:

63

After Completion

Fording the River

Navigating the Stream of Life

Keywords: Completeness, Conclusion, Endgame, Death,
Attaining perfection, Finalising, Keeping things going,
Maintenance, Maintaining momentum, Afterthoughts,
Hindsight, Change for change's sake.

Interpretation: After benefiting from a crucial insight and,
by keeping ourselves small, we discover our opening, it
follows then that we shall find ourselves on the right path.
So, After Completion describes a time when we find
ourselves proceeding in a direction that is right for us. It
also, describes the potential pitfalls we might encounter
along the way.
Difficulties have been resolved. What we are doing, the
direction we are moving in, is correct. We have entered the
stream of our life, picked up the vital current and can feel it
carrying us along. It is as if things take care of themselves
without the need for our constant intervention.
Or we can liken the times to our crossing a swiftly flowing
river. Having decided on our course we are fording it from
one side to the other. We find ourselves in balance and on
the correct course. This is right and we should go on. Now
is not the time to look around for other options.
But also, at times when things are going well, when we are
pursuing the correct course, we should take care not to
forget the possibility of a reversion to chaos, to confusion
and losing the way. Only our awareness of danger keeps us
safe and here we should take care not to lower our guard or
take the good times for granted. Nor we should we fall prey
to debilitating doubts about our ability to sustain our course.
Rather, all that is needed is a return to neutrality and
acceptance of our direction. We must neither ignore things,
nor regard them too closely.
Equally we have to understand that nothing lasts for ever.
What has come to fruition and is at its peak now can only be
sustained so far before a natural process of change leads to
decay, through which a new direction will reveal itself. If
we have maintained our sense of balance in sustaining
things this far, then we will recognise the new direction for
its potential, when it arises, and we must then work towards
it.
If, in making the crossing we suddenly find the water too
deep or the current too strong, deliverance does not come by
ploughing on blindly, but by reading the situation as we
come to it and allowing ourselves to be guided by the
opportunities that present themselves.

from The Hexagrams of the Book of Changes by Michael Graeme (2007) (free ebook).

Click to expand...

I just wanted to thank mesmer for telling us about this book. I didn't know it and find it very inspiring. I have already printed it out Thanks a lot:bows:

em ching said:

Just a question though I'm not too clear on the moving lines thing - I use 3 coins to get a hexagram - is the moving lines to do with asking the same question again? To see what the hexagram changes in to?

Click to expand...

The moving lines have to do with "old yang" and "old yin".
If you are using coins, then 7 = new yang and 8 = new yin, but
9 = old yang, about to change to yin, and
6 = old yin, about to change to yang.
So when the coins give you a 6 or a 9, those are "moving lines". They are about to change, which will create a new (relating) hexagram. I think Hilary's free beginner's lessons on this site give a clear account of how this works.

Hope that helps.

Tony

Yeah thanks very much
I will have a look at the beginner's lessons soon too..

Emma