When will something significant happen for bringing about World Peace?

i asked this question at 2:18 p.m. from the state of Washington, USA.

For my answer I got Hexagrams 41.1.2 - 23

I am hoping that those of you who know how to figure dates from the hexagrams can tell us what dates these lines indicate. Then we can have a Peace Watch and perhaps help in creating it. (Hey, it's better than manefesting power outages and earthquakes!)

Er I think the Yi is just pointing back to you, reflecting your motives in asking the question - like maybe you don't have to take the whole worlds problems on your shoulders ?

As you can tell I am very skeptical that the Yi answers these kind of questions. My view is its an oracle for you to work on you not a prediction tool for world events. Moreover 'world peace' means very different things to different people, there is no one objective view of what it is. Also I'm not sure why you think one specific 'happening' will bring about world peace ? I can't see how 'it' can just 'happen' ? It might manifest in a million diferent ways starting of course with peace in yourself which is what I feel the Yi addresses.

So I don't think you got an answer to the question, I think you got the Yi pointing at you asking the question.

Oh, I hate to do this, but is the honest thing to do:

When I'd read this question, my first thought was: "again, an unaccurate-phrase question"

Because, as I wrote in the post about earthquake, I shouldn't risk again with unaccurate questions. Not only about the way it was phrased (before asking when X would happen, one needs to be sure that X will happen), but because this "Macrocosmical" issues receive better answers with yarrows stalks than coins (And the point is I don't know which method you had use to cast the answer)

My second thought was: "I would ask, better that this, a general question: General Diagnosis about the state of peace in the world"

I did it, with yarrow stalks. The answer: 41 with Lines 1 and 2.. related hex 23 (same answer than Rosada)
41 goes from March 17, 2005 to September 16, 2005. Is IN THE PAST?
Line 1 was from March 17 to April 16 aprox
Line 2 was from April 17 to May 16 aprox.

Maybe one way to understand this answer is in the way Void did.

But, if the Yi DID answer the question:
Which 2 facts happened (the first among March 17 and April 16, and the second among April 17 and May 16) that could be significant to the state of the "World peace" nowadays?

Inmediately, came to my mind the death of Pope John Paul II (april 2, 2005) and the election of Pope Benedictus XVI (april 19, 2005)

What I hate of thinking this is: I personally don't have high expectation on the Pope to achieve "World peace". But... what if...could this new Pope have something to sacrifice to the Peace cause?

Maybe I'm wrong... I should study this more closely. But, as I said.. I think the honest thing to do was post this exercise

Best wishes

It's an interesting question, and an interesting answer as well.

I dont agree that the Yi would not answer this question....but consider that Void's interpretation could actually answer Rosada's question on a much broader global scale, on the scale of "world peace."

"when will something significant happen to bring about world peace?"

when each individual tends to the sacredness of his own heart, center,integrity, wholeness, without expectation- or demand- that others do the same ...or without trying to do for others what they only can only accomplish within themselves...the heart of humanity is *contained* in the miscrocosm of the individual heart, in one is the ALL.

Barbara marx hunbbard said " if the people whose consciousness is shifting naturally... to, let's say, a whole-centered consciousness, a more loving consciousness, more ecologically sensitive -- if that were ever aligned on a planetary scale, in my prophetic vision there would be a planetary birth experience, in which the collective mass of people would feel themselves as one, freely and spontaneously."

MISHLOVE: Well, you seem to be saying, though, that there's a limit to the sort of rugged, individualistic, self-centered consciousness that needs to take place for the survival of the planet.

HUBBARD: I'm a great believer in the evolution of consciousness itself. There's a book by E.M. Buck called Cosmic Consciousness.

MISHLOVE: An excellent book, yes.

HUBBARD: He points out that in single-cell life you had sentient consciousness; in animal life you had animal consciousness; then in human life you have self-consciousness. He points out that maybe starting 5000 years ago in Egypt, India, Greece, Israel, you began to get a new type of consciousness called cosmic consciousness, and that subsequently more and more people, like Whitman, and Pascal, and Emerson, and Gandhi, and so forth and so on -- you and me, and probably a million other people out there, millions -- began to pop into what you might call the next phase of consciousness. But the problem is, there's no church for it, there's no school for it, there's no name for it, and sometimes you think you're crazy. But what if we're popping all over the place into an awareness that we're all linked, into an awareness that we are members of one body, into an awareness that we may be universal beings, such that if there were the right catalytic situations -- this is my intuition -- an amazing number of people would be ready to be aware of who we are?

MISHLOVE: And to take responsibility, therefore, for building a new planetary culture that can live out that higher awareness.

HUBBARD: Yes, and who knows exactly the steps that are required for that? ... I'll never forget sitting with Jose Arguelles -- they made so much fun of Harmonic Convergence, you know.

MISHLOVE: And yet the whole world has changed since 1987.

HUBBARD: And Jose.. said, "The world will never be the same after Harmonic Convergence," and everyone was, "Ha, ha, ha." Then Gorbachev goes to the U.N. and calls for co-creation; the Communist empire self-destructs; Earth Day begins. And even though we have terrible problems in the world, I must say nobody predicted the degree of change. "

thats all pretty much 41.2.3 to 23, I would say. a global "turning within" brought about significant changes for world peace.

Thank you so much for these wonderful answers! Isn't it grand how the I ching can facilitate the flow of ideas and how each person's contribution facilitates the emerging of the whole?
When I posted the question I didn't realize the I Ching can also give dates relating to the past. What I had in mind was that since in our earlier earthquake timing attempt, both Jesed and I had experiences that we felt were meaningful, although we weren't affected with the same event. I thought perhaps there might be a time we could be guided to make note of, and then we could watch and see what happened in our own lives at that time as perhaps a clue as what to pursue to create peace in the world. So I wasn't necessarily looking for a world event, but just asking for a Significant Time with the idea that we would all have something unique and full of potential happen in our own individual lives. So thanks for giving me the chance to clear that up , Void. (One of the things I esperience with your name - it seems to allow you to ask tough questions without bringing along a lot of emotional baggage. Who was that television character who used to say, "Just the facts, Mam!"?)

Now that Jesed has explained the I Ching does give dates from the past, this is also interesting. We're seeing how being clear on the question is soooo important , and ESPECIALLY when the Group Mind here at Clarity is involved. So the I Ching took in account that Void thought the answer was just limited to one event and possible something that would involve the weight of world peace being on one person's shoulders. And the IC also took into account that Jesed knew the I Ching could give dates from the past. And just to make sure we understands the IC understands, Jesed gets the same hexagrams as in the original toss!
UH-oh, something here means something...

Anyway, taking all of this into consideration: Jesed reveals the dates - the time in the past when indeed one man took the weight of world peace on his shoulders! the new Pope!!!

As to whether this answer is The Truth, certainly the lines and relating hexagram tell, as Mitchline so beautifully translates for us, how we can personalize the Peace Experience anytime anywhere.

To me, 41.2.3 to 23, Increase/ Splitting Apart- triggers the idea that world peace comes when each of us individually and Humanity as a whole will say "Enough!" and refuses to continue to support practices that we each feel inwardly are out of balance. What was it John Lennon said, "War is over if you want it?"

Anyway, thank you so for the feed-back. I for one am going to have a renewed interest in the Pope and the Mayan Calendar (wasn't that why the Harmonic Convergence was when it was?)

41 in its purest social form is totalitarianism. It is the ultimate buy-into corporate policy, the complete loss of individuality.

Are you sure you want World Peace? Be careful what you ask for.

Wow! How so?
Would 41.2 - 23 then read, "Peace when social totalitarianism splits apart"?

Jesed,
YOu gave us the dates connected with 41.2.3. Are there dates connected with 23?

To me it would say 'world peace comes at the price of losing our differences'.

Regarding how so? The lower decreases to the benefit of the upper. This upper could be in the form of government, religious authority, economics, or all the above.

Not at all suggesting 41 is 'bad', only an unattached view of the meaning as a whole. The lines of 41 point to not losing what is essentially yours as an individual, but in its pure form, 41 is the sacrifice of the lower for sake of the higher.

This also applies to the individual?s ?world peace?. It is productive to withhold anger and instincts for the sake of the whole, but if withheld too long or too strictly, personal preferences and instincts will be sacrificed altogether. Yielding all your assets, emotions and basic instincts to a higher authority leaves you destitute, though the euphoria of ?oneness? can make a nice buzz.

Bruce -

So are you saying that 41 is similar to 54 - Marrying Maiden, where someone subordinates themselves? And also 17 Adapting?

Peace, in the sense that the maiden?s authority is sacrificed for the sake of the household, yes, they have that in common.

Rosada you are talking of 41 changing lines 1 and 2 aren't you changing to 23 ? A few posts back you put you had 41 lines 2 and 3 ? Which does not give 23. Not meaning to be picky but may confuse other readers. Actually you did this twice.

Duh. Yeah, I mean 41.1.2 changing to 23. I also clobbered the spelling of Micheline's name more than once. Sorry.
Thanks, Void

world peace , the complete loss of individuality? uh, how dismal. thats not my view, nor is it my view of 41..esp in its purest form

The reading is strongly pointing towards global equality among all people.However the moving lines are refering to how much do we the wealthy nations ;who have plenty -decrease ourselves to help others.line two seems to give an answer that is very positive ;serving and increasing others without decreasing ourselves.Well that is obvious if you distribute wealth equally,there is still enough to maintain our status quo.In a way our aid is proportional to maintaining strong economies and building up others that are in need of help- if we are prepared to lose some of our surplus riches.When you get a change in the hexigram configuration before hex 23 you get hex 4 line 2.Maybe this could mean the household as the world and the important people who could make a difference to us all.Someone who treats everybody as equal and benifits the majority.hex23 back to basics for the benifit of us all

Hi Bruce

Interesting the way you see 41 as totalitarism.

Because Wilhelm wrote in his commentaries about 41 "if you sacrifice the wall and reinforce the roof, the house will crash".
a) If common people are sacrifice to reinforce goverment, the Nation will crash. An this is, in deed, what happen at the end with totalitarisms.
b) If individuality is sacrifice to reinforce comunity, the group will crash
c) If "lower" aspects of personality (insticts, desires, and so on) are sacrifice to reinforce "higher" aspects (spirituality, ideas, reason and so on), the person will crash.

BUT... (always a "but", isn't?)... Wilhelm also wrote that the Hexagram teach the way to avoid the crash. The lower (common people, individuality, "lower aspects") needs to do some sacrifice, yes but within some limits, benefit other without harm oneself (lines 1, 2 and 3). And the higher needs to use the reinforcement not to benefit itself but for the others (lines 4, 5 and 6).

It means: some sacrifices are needed... (to built a Nation you need Government; to built a group you need comunity and so on). The diference between crash (totalitarism) and fortune (common good) is the unbalance/balance between give and receive: the rule "government is to serve others".

Is interesting how many people think in 41 as "bad" and think in 42 as "good". According with traditional teachings, 41 is the begining of renewal and 42 is the begining of decadence. So, 41 is "better" than 42.

Best wsihes

Hi Rosada

About calendaric calculation:

23, as calendaric time, goes from February 1 to September 16, 2005. So, is also in the past and have no relevance to calendaric calculations in this answer.

Some times, the primary hexagram is in the past but the related hexagram is in the present/future.
In those cases the related hexagram DOES HAVE RELEVANCE to calendaric calculation, because that means the situation had leave the time of the principal answer and is now in the related Time (like in a previous answer here about increase a relationship...."Needing help" by Syssi20042001)

Best wishes

micheline.. it is how i see it. never said it was pretty, and it?s why i question whether "world peace" is all that new agers crack it up to be. as i said, at what cost?

Jesed, yes, I already said "Not at all suggesting 41 is 'bad'... The lines of 41 point to not losing what is essentially yours as an individual.."

There will disagreements and disputes for as long as people are individuals. And if you disagree with that statement, you make my point. Increase and decrease ebb and flow, like all life does. Or until one beats the other into submission. But as Jesed pointed out, that can't last forever.

Speaking of beating individuals into submission, when did "the Communist empire self-destruct?" China seems to be faring well, so far. No doubt it too will crumble some day, as do all empires.

Best way to world peace? Make peace with yourself.

Jesed, would you consider Socialism an example of 41?

Or anyone?

Hi Bruce

Difficult to say. Is there just one way to understand "Socialism"? Example: "socialism" as theory or real political system? And of course, both in theory and real policy, there are diferences (Rosa Luxemburg is quite diferent than Mao o Castro)

I did the question: "Which Hexagram use the Wisdom to describe Socialism? (Understanding "socialism" as the whole phenomenon: it diferent theories and real practices).

The answer was 22 leading to 36

Interesting, isn't?

Best wishes

i guess we are talking about two completely different things, Bruce. My idea of the meaning of "world peace" is a condition where each individual world member's heart is at rest and peaceful. NOT a world where there is an absence of fighting amongst countries.
I consider what it looks and feels like when I have known rare moments of utter peace, and then extend it to world dimensions. And 41 as a state of being *infinitely less* , and absolutely empty of needing anything, is a beautiful place to be. It also does not imply not having.

Hi Jesed. Oh, I don't think it's so hard to connect 41 with Socialism. The collective inherits private property, to distribute how it sees fit. Or as Wilhelm 41 puts it: "Likewise, a decrease in the prosperity of the people in favor of the government is out-and-out decrease." (which is what I meant by ?pure? earlier)

22 is indeed interesting. Fire below radiating the mountain above, changing to a darkening fire. hmm..

Micheline, ok, I get cha. Yes, I think we agree, but maybe not..? The wars outside are indicative of wars inside. So then, is inner peace defined by the lack of inner opposition? Or, is inner peace a condition that is counter-balanced by a condition of inner chaos, such as when something new is introduced? That's more how I see it. It isn't one condition or the other, but the dance between them that makes life.

On the other hand... Socialism as the begining of renewal? not sure

(Of course, I'm aware that maybe you don't share the interpretation of 41 as begining of renewal)

Best wsihes

41 - I could see totalitarianism or something where we keep giving things up.
So - it could have one meaning if you view it as yourself as the subject and the external object as government.

If it is yourself as both subject and object - it could be a wonderful thing - since you are balancing the flow - that dance between the peace and the inner restlessness.

I can see 22 leading to 36 as socialism.
The seductiveness of the promise - "We'll take care of you" - a case of be careful what you wish for -especially of you're not taking responsibility for yourself and expecting the government to give you all you need.

Yeah, Bruce, after I posted that I had the thought that static internal peace may not really be desirable.. since we live in a world of polarity and contrasts. Chaos and unrest are the flip side of inner peace.

I guess I like the word *serenity* better. I think it implies a core that is unidentified with the seeming polarities and contrasts, making the dance between them a thing of joy and playfulness.

And I felt that was what I originally was saying, about 41.1.2 and world peace. come into the center, get to your basic core, and you no longer feel you need to fix anything or anybody. Pare yourself down to your original state, and "trust that others are able to find their own strngth and truth ." (That is a quote from you, Bruce on hex 41.line 1)

After all, isnt a lot of war (global as well as personal) caused by the identification with one polarity or the other? ie : "I have to fix you, control you, keep you from taking my share, take care of you..protect my assets" ..the whole idea that an increase here has to mean a decrease over there, or vice versa

Micheline, beautifully said.

Funny you should mention increase, because I was just thinking about the flip side of the coin, too, and came up with 42. Specifically, 42.6 as the pitfall to the tower of cards of capitalism: Greed and Power. Line 4 is also interesting in that it models the conscience factor, that wealth not be accumulated exclusively by the wealthy, but that wealth be distributed fairly to the commonwealth. Line 5 could be private wealth which is donated to a humanitarian cause.

Woops, you didn't mention 42, did you. Guess it was on my mind.

Just some ideas generated by Bruce's last message.

Could it be 41 and 42 as two mayor ways of organizing the weight of the private property within the society: 41 diminishing it in favor of the State; 42 increasing it opposite to the State.

Both with its own weaknesses and risks (the concentration, in the State or in the individuals).

Both needing a balance that assures the benefit of the "weaker" persons and the common well-being.

And the excess of each one leads to the other (the excesses of Socialism leads to Capitalism, like in Soviet Union, years ago; and the excesses of Capitalism leads to Socialism, like in Europe decades ago or Latin America nowadays).

Anyway, this already is too much speculation for me. But an interesting one

Best wishes

Just some ideas generated by Bruce's last message.

Could it be 41 and 42 as two mayor ways of organizing the weight of the private property in the society: 41 diminishing it in favor of the State; 42 increasing it opposite to the State.

Both with its own weaknesses and risks (the concentration, in the State or in the individuals).

Both needing a balance that assures the benefit of the "weaker" persons and the common well-being.

And the excess of each one leads to the other (the excesses of Socialism leads to Capitalism, like in Soviet Union, years ago; and the excesses of Capitalism leads to Socialism, like in Europe decades ago).

Anyway, this already is too much speculation for me. But an interesting one

Best wishes