Hello all,

I have just started with getting myself acquainted with I Ching. I had bought the CD Rom "Oracle of Changes" a while ago but only recently have started using it - for some relationship questions. At first I was a bit sceptic, but ever since in three consequent readings (subject: "E. & me", and that was the question as well; I know now that I should be more precise in posing a question) 46 pushing upward appeared, I must say I was a bit flabbergasted.

I have spent this weekend looking on the internet and browsing the Clarity Friend's Area. I must say that I am very impressed with the deep insights and wisdom that can be found here on Clarity.

I would like to share with you the readings that I have done and my first attempts at trying to interpret them. I am very much looking forward to receiving your honest feedback.

BACKGROUND

I personally have gone through an intense transforming 2 ? year period, in which I was forced to find out what it is that I really want, what I value, and what gives me energy ? instead of trying to do what the outer world is expecting from me. All this time I have not had room for a boyfriend. It is only since a few months that I have started working again, and that I have started to become more open again for the ?outside? world. I am getting my old enthusiasm back again.

2 1/2 months ago I got to speak with a guy in my apartment complex, and I felt an instant connection with him. Emotionally, spiritually, physically. We have met a couple of times, and kissed once. I have never felt this way before for someone ? I feel like I can completely be myself, but at the same time there is this attraction, and we have so much to talk about. Energy.

Last May he had ended his eight year relationship. He felt very friendly to her, but did not feel enough to continue it. E. is someone who is very self assured in general (takes the lead), but with me he sometimes turns red and when I grab his hands they turn a bit wet. He says he?s very attracted to me.

BUT, there is another woman. E. has dated her when he was eighteen (fifteen years ago), and the relationship ended over something futile. He has recently met this girl again a couple of times, and told me a couple of weeks ago, that he wants to give this relationship a chance ? as otherwise he will always keep wondering what it would have been like. He says he has very deep feelings for her. So now she?s his girlfriend, but whenever I meet him in the apartment complex, I can sense there is still a lot of feelings between us. And next month his girlfriend will go abroad for a three month trip to the other side of the world, that she had already planned.

QUESTIONS

E. & me (date?) 46 changing to ? (I did not save this reading)
E. & me February 22nd: 46 unchanging
E. & me March 4th: 46 unchanging

Questions of March 4th (inspired by a thread on Friend's Area)
Is he the one meant for me?: 17.1 -> 45
What can you tell me about the nature of his feelings for me?: 7 unchanging
Will I get him in the end? 19.1 -> 7
Why is he holding back on dating me? 12.1 -> 25

EITHER UNCHANGING LINES OR THE FIRST LINE CHANGING

What strikes me is that I get either no changing lines or only the first line changing. Would anyone of you know what this means?

Furthermore there is two times a 7 and three times a 46 (the last for three times the same question). Does this have a specific meaning?

MY INTERPRETATION

I will give my interpretation a try:

E. & me: 46 unchanging: Now is not the time for a relationship. Focus on rebuilding yourself and on investing in yourself (which could make sense, although I don?t want to end up like a non)

Is he the one meant for me?: 17.1 -> 45
Could be ? he can give me new ideas and help me grow. On Heylise?s site (BTW, I am Dutch too) hexagram 45 ??Without any effort one attracts what resonates with one's own nature?? (or am I being too optimistic here?)

What can you tell me about the nature of his feelings for me?: 7 unchanging
He?s trying to control them plus he?s trying to find out what his exact feelings are

Will I get him in the end? 19.1 -> 7
Seems positive: on September 26th Heylise mentions ?19.1 and 19.2, have the same 'way' of nearing. With affection, or joint (Wilhelm) or finding response (Balkin) or (united in -) commitment (Bradford)?
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/92/5260.html?1127787010

Why is he holding back on dating me? 12.1 -> 25
On Heylise?s site Hexagram 12 first changing line ?Search for the roots, they will inspire you again. Life needs weeding, then new things find room to grow.? And that is what he literally is doing, going back to his roots, back to the girlfriend he dated when he was eighteen.
Hexagram 12 also says 'Say no to wrong people' ? hope that is not me!

THANKS!!

"Is he the one meant for me?: 17.1 -> 45"

Yes.

"
What can you tell me about the nature of his feelings for me?: 7 unchanging "

They're powerful.

"Will I get him in the end? 19.1 -> 7"

Definitely.

"Why is he holding back on dating me? 12.1 -> 25"

There's an obstruction in his mind which you and/or he must rip up by the roots.

Thanks a lot Dobro!! When you write it down, it seems so clear and easy - I still have a lot to learn! I thought that I had to look at 7 unchanging in a more negative, restrained way.
But it makes a lot of sense to summarize the nature of his feelings as having the power of a whole army.

By the way, I am happy there are positive indications between E. & me. I think for now I will just have to let time do its work.

Should I give any weight to the fact that when posing six questions I got either no changing lines or only the first line changing?

And should I ignore the 46 unchanging, the answer to the (beginner) question I asked "E. & me" - because of the fact that I did not ask a precise question? Or does it still have some value?

I love sunny readings as much as anyone else, but I think one must be a little more careful when divining love affairs!

According to my old Legge translation (a gift from daddy ), 17.1 means that the person changes its object of pursuit. I don't know, but I would be careful to interpret that as a definite "yes". After, all "the one for me" is a very big concept.. I believe there can be many people out there for you!

I think all those first changing lines you are getting mean that this thing is still at a very early stage, but you already knew that!

Will I get him in the end? .. hmmm... perhaps it's a yes, but what does it really mean, to "get him".. see that is the thing with love affairs, it's very difficult to pinpoint what the answers really mean... he could be "yours" today and tomorrow, but what about the day after? I find it very positive that there is a great attraction between the two of you and that the girlfriend is going away soon ( ), but what will happen when she returns..?

Love,

Ithaki

17.1

Official having changing
Firmness fortunate
Emerging gate, associating has achievement

Or in more ordinary English: Your official position is changing. Carrying out what you think is right is fortunate. Emerging from the personal realm into that of social interaction, there's achievement.

That sounds pretty positive to me. It also sounds like the querent is:

* experiencing a major change of position or status here

* experiencing good fortune arising out of carrying out what she thinks is right

* emerging from the merely personal into an association with someone in a way that produces real achievement

Overall, I see it as a good line to get any time, and a good line to get for a relationship - it talks about important change, doing the right thing, and moving from aloneness to interaction. I could have said all this before, but it seemed simpler and more to the point to just say 'yes'.

Hi Orchidcat

Just in case trhe comment coulde be useful

I would suggest another aproach. First, just one question: "general diagnosis of the relationship between E and I"

The intention with this question is trying to get a "picture" about the "objective" situation TODAY.

I had find that, especially in relationships issues, this first step helps a lot.

Best wishes

Yeah, what Jesed said. The Yi works better and better the more global your question.

It's my belief that the Yi 'wants' your questions to be more and more global.

From a species-member perspective the context will 'push' one's instincts to elicit the 'correct' response to the stimulus. For the species this relationship of 'inner' with 'outer' is through the use of emotions that allow for the eliciting of 'resonance' (and so empathy/sympathy are so easy to experience in that their roots are in the social dynamics of our species-nature)

With the continued development of our species has come the emergence of the realm of the singular as compared to the particular/general. There is hierarchy here as in:

particular/general
singular/particular

Singular reflects the position of individual consciousness and so an agent of local mediation that can 'interfere' with emotional responses to some external (or even internal) context working as stimulus.

This interference can be in the form of supressing/repressing emotional responses to some stimulus such that we are aware intuitively of something 'wrong' or 'strange' etc but no more than that - our consciousness only experiences the discomfort, the incongruency of consciousness with emotion.

To bypass the supression/repression and so talk to the 'sense' of emotions requires the use of GENERAL questions focused on getting the emotions to respond in a form that allows us to derive the hexagram representing the context that is 'pushing' one's buttons and so eliciting 'resonance'. Here the personal position of consciousess is holding-down the expression for reasons of social taboos or expressions considered by consciousness as 'inappropriate' at this time.
(emotions are focused on the expressions of our species-nature in a context with others of that speicies - being instinctive there is little 'holding back' in these expressions where it is consciousness that can DELAY an expression. However, consciousness, as a sub-conscious, is particular or more so singular in operation and so can miss or cut-out the big picture when there are times we 'need to know')

We can elicit the 'big picture' hexagram through the use of general questions derived from understanding how the brain deals with novelty:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/EmotionalIC.html

Chris.

Dear Chris,

I was wondering please if you could explain what you mean by:

'consciousness, as a sub-conscious'

I'm afraid I'm stuggling to understand what you mean by it.

Love
Nicky
xx

Nicky,

What the 'Emotional I Ching' shows us is the presence of hierarchy in our brains that allow for levels in that hierarchy to operate almost autonomously from each other.

Our basic emotions, as compared to our derived emotions, come out of the neurological and hormonal dynamics of our ancestors and as such are instincts. Our derived emotions, for example the feeling of embarrassment, can only develop once a sense of self has developed - and so infants can show no embarrassment until their sense of self starts to develop.

As we develop as individuals so our sense of self has to interact with others and in so doing will develop inhibitory skills to surpress/repress the level of emotions from expressing itself in socially taboo or inappropriate contexts.

These social rules come in the form of habits, rules derived from social instruction etc. that are valid for the life time of the individual.

Our everyday consciousness, our sense of the singular as compared to being a particular, interacts with reality 'above' these rules that 'control' emotions such that these rules are known by us but are not in our consciousness until they are brought to attention.

But, these rules are not in our unconscious either since THAT realm is always 'unconscious'. So to cover what is going on here we have to introduce the notion of the sub-conscious.

With the Emotional I Ching we use our 'everyday' consciousness to interrogate our emotions and can bypass the sub-conscious realm of social rules etc (or one's own repression/suppression of 'inappropriate' expression).

If our everyday consciousness is 'in tune' with our emotions then asking the questions will elicit a hexagram reflecting that relationship and by implication 'resonate' with the sub-conscious rules such that all is 'one'.

On the other hand, if the everyday is experiencing feelings of 'discomfort' etc then this is sourced in our emotions resonating with the context and the hexagram elicited will be the one the emotions are resonating with - that hexagram can bring to one's attention the hidden behaviours we are trying to suppress but are doing so at a cost of emotional discomfort. (and this can be 'surprising' or embarrassing to oneself since one can immediately react but saying "I should not be 'thinking' THAT"!)

For example, a question of a relationship may 'push' one to ask the IC 'does he love me?'. This push is rooted in unconscious 'drives' we all share as a species but focused on self. Thus the question may reflect issues of security or identity or problem solving or sensation seeking. We can access this through focusing on, communicating with, our emotions rather than our rational side where rationalisations will often try to 'hide' the underlying 'truth'.

The general dynamics involved with the IC in this context are issues of trust in others (yin based, values based, interactions and so focus on issues of betrayals etc) or issues of trust in self (yang based, more 'facts' based, assertions - gets into issues of self-betrayals).

BTW - damage to the frontal lobes of our brains will change our personality due to that area being the source of emotional 'control' in the form of suppression/repression - the individual becomes more 'primate-like' in behaviours and so 'socially unacceptable' in conduct... so be wary with the Emotional IC as it can 'surprise' you and bring out a 'truth' that one may not want to deal with - that said, the emotional discomfort being felt indicates the truth NEEDS to 'come out', if but only to your awareness and so to deal with it.

Also note that the questions asked are derived from understanding 'mindless' brain dynamics as it tries to deal with novelty by moving from the general to the particular (but not the singular other than the last question).

This GENERAL format bypasses any particular focus and so gets to the 'core' issues without too much filtering - but the main focus is on the emotions.

Chris.

Dear all,

Thanks for all your responses. My computer crashed, and I have not been able to post a message earlier. Good to be back online!

Since the last time I posted here, there has been an interesting development. After having only dated his girlfriend for a month, E. has decided to join her on her three month trip to New Zealand. And that is where they are now. On the one hand I do feel some jealousy, on the other hand it is good to have some distance from him. And what better way for him to find out if he and M. are a real match, than during a three month holiday away...

But I could not resist asking Yi some more questions:

Is E. my soul mate? 46. 1.2.3.6 -> 27
Please give me a general diagnosis of E. & me: 62.3.4 -> 2
All in all, what would be the best thing for me to do about E. & me? 26.2.3.6 -> 24
So, I should keep faith in E. & me? 12.4 -> 20

Chris, I am not sure which one of these questions you would find valid. Maybe you could give your opinion on that?

The first, third and fourth don?t seem so negative to me (but again, I am a beginner in I Ching). But the second one comes up with 62.3. And looking at the comments made here in the Friends Area, that is a very negative line to get?.

So, I am confused about the picture that is being painted.

Can you guys over here shed some light on this?
THANKS!

Hi Orchidcat

Just in case the comment could be useful

1.- The diagnosis of the relationship is not good now: you cann't do much about it, you cann't have high expectatives about it, you "must" have great caution and don't try to act.

2.- The best thing to do is control your atraction, return to your own to achieve the Way of Heaven

3.- Keep faith in this relationship? the image of 12 points to no... retreat to yourself... line 4: obedience to Heaven


Finally... i would suggest you to try Chris' method related on how you feel/act related to E: http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/icplusEProact.html

Is E. my soul mate? 46. 1.2.3.6 -> 27
he could well be, it moves in that direction, but the ending is still uncertain...keep your focus

Please give me a general diagnosis of E. & me: 62.3.4 -> 2
Right now he is with another woman, she may try to thwart you , be cautious and keep a low profile

All in all, what would be the best thing for me to do about E. & me? 26.2.3.6 -> 24
Fix up your approach, practice being strong and focused, and restrain yourself until the way becomes clear and opens up.

So, I should keep faith in E. & me? 12.4 -> 20
Yes......but tie your hopes down tight, dont let them blow you all over the field...precautions and patience are needed. See it all from the highest perspective of your goal