This is an old romantic relationship and it has been 30 years almost since I spoke to him, I was wondering if I should contact him. He was an alcoholic and used to say that was why he couldn;t pursue a relationship w/ me, but at least one person has told me he is gay but not sure if she is just saying that because he never has a girlfriend, he might just have alot of casual sex that no one really knows about. I really don't know. I don't want a romantic relationship now with him but I would like to talk about the past so I could get some closure w/ this person, but that didn't sound too encouraging to me.
Thanks for any help!
I noticed there is a thread with the opposite reading 51.2-54 about a relationship also.

Hi Susan,

To me, hexagram 54 is about someone who has to deal with a situation he or she has to deal with at best, although it is not the ideal situation as you want to have... Some kind of underdog position, but not a sympetatic one, a real underdog one, some kind of under-estimated, or low profile one, kept low by the other party. A situation where your talents do not have the room to flow, as the other one or the situation keeps you down. Line 2 to me gives the idea that there is some discipline-issue going on, perhaps your own?, and perhaps it?s not that bad to look to what you brought to this ?new plan? towards this relationship in the first place. Hexagram 51 is some kind of shock where you are frightend of something, but later on it can be less frightend as you thought... Still, it?s some kind of wake-up call...

Hug,
Frank

You need to go alone and be persistant in that, no use of contacting him.That's what line 2 is about.Hex 54 says that your position when it comes to him is very low - you are not important to him, as he is to you.
51 - I guess that it says that if you manage not to contact him it will be o.k. - this is just something that could destroy your balance.

Frank and Sirix thanks for your input.
I think that 54 meant that I was second to the (alcoholism) or whatever is motivating his self-destructiveness.
"Line 2 to me gives the idea that there is some discipline-issue going on, perhaps your own?, and perhaps it?s not that bad to look to what you brought to this ?new plan? towards this relationship in the first place"
That's interesting, Frank, not sure what it means though. Is there a need for discipline on my part to not contact him? or a need for him to discipline himself? I keep pondering the part about what I brought into the new plan.
On the other hand, Sirixs reading says line 2 says it's no use to contact him.
Could someone ask about him contacting me,if it's not an imposition, I'm afraid I've asked so many questions about this that I've muddied the waters. The relationship was very short and intense and should have resulted in marriage, but he blocked it, so I think karmically and practically he should contact me. The ic does caution about throwing oneself away and also talks about not forcing people that they have to follow the good on their own. Thanks again.

Hi Susan

The line says that you keep fidelity to a man that had disapointed you.. he probably is death already (or at least, he had left you behind)

The question is: why are you still attached?

The cause of line 54.2 is on 57.2 A gost hidden under the bed (deep in yourself). You need to bring it to light and exorcise it; and you need advicer to achieve that.

The effect is on line 51.2. A inner conmotion, you could feel it like a loss; but you won't realy lost anything.

Best wishes

Hi Jesed, can you remind me how you get 57.2 as the cause of 54.2 ? I've forgotten what you do to get to the cause ? Thanks :bows:

Hi trojan

To find the cause of any line, change every lines except the moving line you are studying.

Best wishes

Ps.. from Void to Trojan in one reincarnation.. wow (but, I'm not sure what would that mean about your karma )

Hi Jesed. thanks for writing.
I just starting thinking about him a couple of months ago and it won't go away. Maybe I never came to terms w/ what he meant to me at the time. My children are finally grown up and maybe I just have time to think about myself. All I know is I've been crying over it alot.
I asked the other day "why do I keep thinking of J" and got 8.5-2.

Here is some input. Maybe it will help too.

54 Kuei Mei - The Marrying Maiden
54.0 - The Judgement
This hexagram gives insight into the effects of the observance and non-observance of social protocols.
There are many urges and passionate drives in man’s life that must be regulated through conventions (protocols), to avoid chaos in society.

Recommended Reports
1. Balancing the Life-force
2. Divine Law Meditation

54.2 - Line 2
A means of achieving and maintaining order in society is through the concept of loyalty. It is a means to help people transcend egotism. If, in truth, you are loyal, you will persevere to the very end through thick and thin. However, you must not allow irrational or questionable customs to pressure you into acts that are detrimental to you, or others.

Recommended Reports
1. Kidney Tonification

51 Chên - The Arousing (Shock, Thunder)
51.0 - The Judgement
Man’s life is so frail when compared to the awesome forces unleashed by nature and the brutality that man has inflicted on his fellow man. In the early stages of man’s spiritual evolution, it is the fear and shock engendered by the brutal events in the world (thunder, volcanic eruptions, storms, wars, massacres, etc.) that drives man to make time to enter into a relationship with God. It is the fruits of the relationship with God that leads man out of fear-which would destroy his life-into peace and joy.
Recommended Reports
1. Mindfulness Meditation
2. Balancing the Life-force
3. Kidney Tonification
4. Divine Law Meditation

Casius,
I'm not familiar w/ your methods about the reports. What do they refer to? Is there a book I can look them up in?

susan said:

Casius,
I'm not familiar w/ your methods about the reports. What do they refer to? Is there a book I can look them up in?

Click to expand...

The report came from this software I got. It also perscribes the qi gong and mediation stuff to help you realize/understand the hexagram. That's where the other stuff came from. Is that what you are talking about?

If it is not clear it is because I am a begginer with this I Ching stuff. So I just "bark" verbatim what the software info says for now. I still thought you'd get something out if it still. Peace.

Thank you, that's nice of you.
What do the reports mean though?

"Recommended Reports"
1. Kidney Tonification

I know that 54 is the hexagram from the kidneys in the Chinese clock of acupuncture.
The kidney in acupuncture is the place where we get our physical energy from. It's our physical centre, it also is connected with the trigram of earth. The energy of nature, the energy of the mother which has the possibilty to give life. In the kidneys there is Ming Men, the fire pot. The will to live, courage and will power are all connected with the kidneys. also our back and our knees are.

And wenn you look to 54 the kidney(the mental part, 20 is the physical part) can give you the energy to adept to situations in a mental way.

Frank R

susan said:

Thank you, that's nice of you.
What do the reports mean though?

Click to expand...

The reports thing is the additional info/meditation/exercises to realize/understand the councel given in the hexagram and the lines. It's too big to type on here but if you want I'll send you a message with more details on the reports info. Thanks Frank for explaining that 54th hexagram/kidney connection.

Yes Casius, you can send me that info.
Also, thank you Frank R. for that. but how do the kidneys pertain to my question?

frank_r said:

"Recommended Reports"
1. Kidney Tonification

I know that 54 is the hexagram from the kidneys in the Chinese clock of acupuncture.
The kidney in acupuncture is the place where we get our physical energy from. It's our physical centre, it also is connected with the trigram of earth. The energy of nature, the energy of the mother which has the possibilty to give life. In the kidneys there is Ming Men, the fire pot. The will to live, courage and will power are all connected with the kidneys. also our back and our knees are.


Frank R

Click to expand...

Frank, could you please reference where you find that hex. 54 is kidneys according to the Chinese clock of acupuncture.

Based on what I know Hex. 54 is related to Metal phase in the five elements as we have Dui below (which is metal phase) and Zhen above ( one can place thunder in the wood phase though normally wood phase is wind related)

You say the trigram earth is related to kidneys, I found this strange as trigram water is related to kidneys, not just that water trigram is placed under water phase, yet also the shape of the water trigram yang inside two yin lines is quite a good metaphor to explain the quality of water phase. Quoting Doa de Jing 78


"Nothing in the world is softer and weaker than water;
But for attacking the hard and strong, there is nothing like it! "


Or 28

"Know the masculine,
Keep to the feminine
And be the brook of the World"

The Yang line in the middle of the water trigram signifies the masculine or the fire of the water as if you change the lines from yin to yang you will get the fire trigram. This is the power of these two trigrams. Now fire is related to the Heart in chinese medicine, in the water trigram you have the yang line in the middle (the center the heart of the trigram) which makes it special. Ming men ( commonly translated as life of gate, life of destiny) is also called the lower fire in chinese medicine since it acts as a pilot light to initiate the firing process of life.

If you take the nuclear trigrams then it is possible to see this relationship, yet to call Hex 54 related to Kidneys is a bit strange to me. hence if you can quote the source where it says it is related so I will look into it.

Now back to the original question Hex.54 is a mismatch (eldest son with youngest daughter). Looking into the trigrams dui is exchange , talking, and since it is metal phase related it can also mean not letting it go, keeping yin, as it is common in metal. Thunder is motion, movement yet it is excess yang. So one hand ( the inner gua) we have the tendecency to keep yin and on the other hand excess yang (outer gua). There is not really balance. When we reflect this to the question, I see the exact situation, trying to solve issues with some one where they have not spoken for thirty years, this is trying top keep the yin, not letting go the characteristics of dui. Not being sure if that is what is wanted trying to get some insigths (not that it is a bad thing) is like a thunder, trying to get things going on getting rid of the stagnation. Yet still the origianl poster says it did not sound encouraging, just as the line 2 which is in the central position of the lower gua and is firm the commentary says that the one never deviates the norm of conduct.

Nuclear hex is 63 where everything is in the proper place and correct. So why should the original poster wants to change this. Yijing in my understanding warns the original poster with hex 51 about fear and suggest that the superior man examines himself.


My overall interpretation is let go this attachment with the past and carry on with life


Hope this helps

Maybe I keep thinking about him cause I haven't let him go? What does the 8.5-2 reading mean?

Hi Susan...

Yes, I could say "you hadn't let him go" as 8.5 interpretation

But this lead you to my original question for you: Why?

Why you are still attached to him (or to the idea of him) after so long?

That is the gost to be excorcised


Best wishes

In dreams you know how often we dream of someone we haven't seen for years ? Well I read somewhere its likley not much to do with that person more to do with who we were when we knew that person. Or we are now in our current life experiencing the same issues we did with that person andour subconscious is reminding us of when we met this issue before.

Just my opinion but I think your preoccupation with him probably has little to do with him, much more to do with memories of your own self, how you were, what was happening for you at that young age - 30 years ago. He is a symbol for that time but your hankering is not really for him, or your wish for closure and settlement may not be with him but with your own youthful self. Or is there something similar happening with someone now that you originally felt with him ?

Does he remind you of anyone at all in your current life ?

If he does then 8.5 advises letting those who are not accessible to you to go easily. Not to pursue them or try to hold them.

Dear Susan

You had exceeded your private messages quota.. You can write me at my email adress
rodrigocambios-web@yahoo.com.mx

Best wishes and my prayers for you

Jesed, I cleared stuff out of my private message box, but I will email you also.
Trojan, I think you are right that's the only thing that makes sense. I don't think their is anyone that reminds me of him right now it might just be my youthful self and regret. It's been hell though. I had dropped out of school around the time I knew him and he would tell me to I should be in school, I just started going back and this really started towards the end of the semester, it might be associated with that also.
Thanks for the answers I really needed to get this message to let go, but it isn't easy.

Susan I remembered your thread on 47, 3,4 and 5 when you were asking about searching for someone. Am wondering if that question was connected to this person at all.

I bring this is up because for me 47 most often tells me I'm in a state of depression. When you posted that thread my thought was 'is this search being triggered by depression.' I didn't post that as I thought it may come over as patronising..hmm well I guess it does, sorry.


But you mentioned crying alot lately over the man you knew 30 years ago and I know that if I was doing this is would indicate me sliding into depression, maybe not even realising.

Funny alot of people get depressed aswell in the summer break when they are students (and teachers) I don't know why, I guess the mind has been very focused it gets let off its leash in summer and then experiences all the emotions its held back when its been busy.

For some reason as well when I'm depressed but don't know I am, my mind does tend to fixate on incidents from the distant past. Now I take that as a warning signal to take care of myself.

Of course its just come to mind how one summer I had to spend much time with a friend who is prone to really bad depressions (in summer) That summer all he could think of was a woman he had been out with a few years back. In retrospect I can see that obsession at the time was just a symptom of his depression. As he got better he ceased to think of her.

Hope I've not offended you, maybe your're not depressed at all but its a possibility I really felt I must talk about as I feel some concern for you.

susan said:

I don't think their is anyone that reminds me of him right now it might just be my youthful self and regret. It's been hell though. I had dropped out of school around the time I knew him and he would tell me to I should be in school, I just started going back and this really started towards the end of the semester, it might be associated with that also.
Thanks for the answers I really needed to get this message to let go, but it isn't easy.

Click to expand...

Firstly, I would also call 8.5 to let go and the Hex 2 to accept, to yield the fact that it should be put behind.

You have previously said that your childeren were finally grown up and maybe you had time to think about youself. and you have been crying over it. If I summarize these to the first hexagram 54 which I said was metal phase related. Dui, is normally translated as joy but actually it is the feeling one has for self satisfaction, to value self to find worth in self, or to search the value, worth in one's self. Since it is metal phase related grief, crying out, thinking about the past inorder to judge self so that one finds the reasons of self worth or self value. In other words one is highly criticising about self for the things that had happened in the past.

In the hexagram 54 you had dui below and now in hex. 8 you have water above. I like to think Dui not as lake yet as a marsh actually a paddy field much like a rice field. Then it means fertility, vegetation, possibility to nourish. Water, is also fertility, it is the seed of life, it passes down mountains, through valleys carrying all the debris, it is the accumulation of knowledge and experience. It can always find its way hence the determination and will power.

In Hex. 8 earth is below and water is above if I think it as a big picture it reminds me the rice field again. This thime though in order for the seed to grow one needs to remove the obstacle as there is too much water on the earth. This is line 5, when changed to Hex 2 kun it allows the seed to grow upwards through the void, the openning.

Now in terms of both of the Hexagrams there is the effect of the controlling (can also be destructive) K'o cycle. Dui (metal) is controlling Zhen in hex. 54 and now in hex. 8 we have Kun controlling Kan. So the flow is not continous, normally it would be metal creating water and earth creating metal.

Hence overall the best would be in my interpretation to let go the past and look self in a constructive way rather than a harsh overly criticizing manner for the past

Hope this helps

Hallo susan

susan said:

but how do the kidneys pertain to my question?

Click to expand...

The kidney store our essence, our most deepest powers. The more subtle part wil rise and will get into contact with our heart. Heart and kidneys express our deepest level of energy (feelling something in heart and kidneys is a famous Dutch expression, also in Englisch?). This is the ghost which has to be exorcised as Jesed already said.

54 is the hexagram which expresses our kidney energy and then especially the mental part. It's also a nucleur hexagram, so 54 has karmick power.

So what happened has impact on a deep level, but will give you a lot afterwards.
54 is the hexagram which tells you to accept the situation, it was your destiny to come across this man.

The changing line 2, trigram lake is changing into trigram thunder.
After there has been a darker period into the deepers layers of yourself ther will be a new fresh start.
This will result in a totally new period(51), which starts with a outburst of new energy.

And your second answer 8 5 changing in 2. Hexagram 8 You had a connection with him on a deep level in a certain way you where soul mates.
In a way you felt very strong and powerfull but on the other hand this gave you fear that somebody got so much impact on you.

When you have taken care with the old ghost in your heart, there will be room for new connections and I'm sure then you know if he is fitting in your live or not.

Good luck with this, best wishhes frank r.

BTW Toganm I will start a new thread about the relations of the organs and why trigram earth is kidney. That's a litlle bit of topic here.

well thanks alot for your help.
Trojan, thank you for your concern, I guess it was a bit of depression. If you had posted that I sounded depressed I don't take offense easily. I might not listen at first but things sink in and I think about them afterwards. So don't worry about that w/ me. this guy was a soulmate as Frank R. says and I know it was not intended to work out w/ him but if it didn't hurt it wouldn't've served it's purpose to make me grow (and probably him too).
also, Frank r. can't believe what you can get from the i ching. Iam just astounded. I sure don't know how you all do these things, I know it's true it was my destiny and I always thought it was his fear that stopped things but maybe it was mine too. Part of that fear was the fear to be happy.
well I guess I got it through my thick head to release this and thank you for helping me.'I mean you all on this thread who replied really help pull me through.I would post a huggy heart here but I'm computer illiterate.
Frank R. it's so nice what you wrote:
"When you have taken care with the old ghost in your heart, there will be room for new connections and I'm sure then you know if he is fitting in your live or not."
thank you all!