Hello all.
I'd like to know what your impressions on Nigel Richmond's translations and interpretations are.
I really seem to find it very suitable for all my readings.
Await your reply.
Kind regards.
Mary F.

mary f said:

Hello all.
I'd like to know what your impressions on Nigel Richmond's translations and interpretations are.
I really seem to find it very suitable for all my readings.
Await your reply.
Kind regards.
Mary F.

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Many here I think really like Richmonds books. They mean absolutely nothing to me and never have since i bought Language of the Lines in about 1982...which isn't to say I'm making any judgement about his work, i simply don't get it is all and I've had enough time get it by now I think lol. I can't see his line interpetations have much connection to the lines in the I Ching, maybe its not meant to, its meant to be his impressions/poetry...but I'm intrigued how do you use it for divination ? Can you actually make sense of his writing ? Like I'm currently looking through commentaries on 42.5 and Richmond writes "It is more harmonious for him to accept the challenges of emotional levels than seeing how his many experiences fit together" That sentence doesn't make any sense to me, it really doesn't, I have no idea what it means. Do you ? Can you tell me ?

The fact that I've kept the book all this time must mean that i have always thought that I will understand it when I am older and more intelligent/aware/sensitive, but that day never seems to come so as far as Richmond is concerned I remain nonplussed I'm afraid. But I really am interested to hear how you use his work in divination ? Maybe you would care to give me an example of a reading that his work illuminated for you ? Not if you don't feel like it of course but I really am curious, not understanding it at all myself.

Maybe you can help me after all these years in the dark

His work really isn't a substitute for using a good Yijing translation and it doesn't adhere in any strict way to traditional meanings, but he has a surprising number of very useful insights into the deeper meanings of the texts. I think it's an important work to have if you are going to have more than a dozen books.

Language of the lines of Nigel Ricmond is one of my favourites. It's in many occasions the first book I look in to when I use the Yi.
I also use it in my work as a acupuncturist, some of his insights are really to the point. Especially when people have chronic complaints.

Frank

Well Trojan, I confess I didn’t read Language of the Lines yet; I’m using a digital version of “The I Ching Oracle” (do you have/use it?) downloaded from http://www.biroco.com/yijing/The_I_Ching_Oracle.pdf (it’s impossible to have some books delivered here in the jungle ). I’ll be glad to share an example with you so you may give me your opinion.

Example: I am having persistent migraine recently and really wish to find the cause. I thought it could be a medicine I take for a different purpose (depression). So I asked: Please explain if the migraines may relieve if I quit taking medicine X. Answer: 24. Richmond’s text: “Our whole personal self is accepting and active in this tao where the outer is fully active but its source is inactive. We are fully acting out and experiencing a phase of the life force which has now ceased to provide new impetus – we are carrying through something we have already begun. This heralds the end of a cycle of activity because all of our activity comes from the inner and is expressed outwardly … The impetus from the inner life force is great (Chen). It flows freely in our outer world, in our identity, and in our inner being (all Kun). The flow is fully outwards and fully accepted, a clearing out operation in which energy returns to its source, the inner, which makes it also a turning point in the cycle, an emptying out which makes room for the new to appear … Here the cycle is pictured as a coming and going, its free flow being the success and harmony. He relates for the full cycle of identifying (7 simbolizes the cycle as seen in consecutive steps like the days of our week) and then returns to his centre, the inner, the non-identified state. When we go through the outer experience and allow it to finish when it has no more energy all directions are favourable because none are selected or grasped.” For humans: “To the place where we have been we return. To the mood we have lived we return. But returning is arising anew.”

To me Trojan, it is clearly saying that I’m O.K. with the medicine to quit. And I really feel that because a couple of months ago I didn’t feel cheered enough and now I feel very well.

Furthermore, since I still have the migraine, I asked: what should I do? Answer: 24 : 6 >> 27.
Look at what he says in line 6: “Line 6 goes yang >> our inner being accepts less. If we become less involved in the emerging tao when it is in an inactive phase we are likely to miss the next emergency of activity and be out of phase with it. It is self-evident that if we do not recognize that we are at a turning point of the cycle and press on we shall miss the changes that are taking place and all our responses will be inappropriate. We will be ruled by desire patterns of our already formed identity, so disaster is stated for the ruler (the identifying process is the ruler of identity). If the turning point of the cycle is completely ignored nothing can be done about it until the next turning point, a complete cycle away and symbolized by ten, the whole, and year, cycle.”
I linked it with the consumption of white sugar that I know I’ve increased. I think I don’t even need to quote Hex.27, otherwise this thread will be huge. This is why I also won’t quote further examples right now.

Best.

frank_r said:

Language of the lines of Nigel Ricmond is one of my favourites. It's in many occasions the first book I look in to when I use the Yi.
I also use it in my work as a acupuncturist, some of his insights are really to the point. Especially when people have chronic complaints.

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Yes Frank and I see that he has this psycological perspective that to me is easier to understand than the pure imagery views, at least now that I'm still crawling.
Very nice that you're using it for your acupuncturist work. You have no idea how I wish I had an acupuncturist like you here in the jungle.

bradford said:

His work really isn't a substitute for using a good Yijing translation and it doesn't adhere in any strict way to traditional meanings, but he has a surprising number of very useful insights into the deeper meanings of the texts. I think it's an important work to have if you are going to have more than a dozen books.

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Thanks Bradford.
I agree with you. For the reading's sake I prefer to analyze other translations/texts as well, but when I run out of time, I've recently checked Richmond's only and then just later go deeper.

Which are your 2 or 3 favourite translations / texts?
Have you seen Denis Mair's?

mary f said:

Example: I am having persistent migraine recently and really wish to find the cause. I thought it could be a medicine I take for a different purpose (depression). So I asked: Please explain if the migraines may relieve if I quit taking medicine X. Answer: 24. Richmond’s text: “Our whole personal self is accepting and active in this tao where the outer is fully active but its source is inactive. We are fully acting out and experiencing a phase of the life force which has now ceased to provide new impetus – we are carrying through something we have already begun. This heralds the end of a cycle of activity because all of our activity comes from the inner and is expressed outwardly … The impetus from the inner life force is great (Chen). It flows freely in our outer world, in our identity, and in our inner being (all Kun). The flow is fully outwards and fully accepted, a clearing out operation in which energy returns to its source, the inner, which makes it also a turning point in the cycle, an emptying out which makes room for the new to appear … Here the cycle is pictured as a coming and going, its free flow being the success and harmony. He relates for the full cycle of identifying (7 simbolizes the cycle as seen in consecutive steps like the days of our week) and then returns to his centre, the inner, the non-identified state. When we go through the outer experience and allow it to finish when it has no more energy all directions are favourable because none are selected or grasped.” For humans: “To the place where we have been we return. To the mood we have lived we return. But returning is arising anew.”

To me Trojan, it is clearly saying that I’m O.K. with the medicine to quit. And I really feel that because a couple of months ago I didn’t feel cheered enough and now I feel very well.

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Oh I have never seen that text, but its double dutch to me, my brain goes numb and switches off a sentence into the paragraph. I just don't know what he means. I couldn't use it for myself , but if it really resonates with you and you feel it answered your question then i guess its a good text for you to use. Anyway I would probably come to the same conclusion you did re stopping the medication if i had got 24.

Furthermore, since I still have the migraine, I asked: what should I do? Answer: 24 : 6 >> 27.
Look at what he says in line 6: “Line 6 goes yang >> our inner being accepts less. If we become less involved in the emerging tao when it is in an inactive phase we are likely to miss the next emergency of activity and be out of phase with it. It is self-evident that if we do not recognize that we are at a turning point of the cycle and press on we shall miss the changes that are taking place and all our responses will be inappropriate. We will be ruled by desire patterns of our already formed identity, so disaster is stated for the ruler (the identifying process is the ruler of identity). If the turning point of the cycle is completely ignored nothing can be done about it until the next turning point, a complete cycle away and symbolized by ten, the whole, and year, cycle.”
I linked it with the consumption of white sugar that I know I’ve increased. I think I don’t even need to quote Hex.27, otherwise this thread will be huge. This is why I also won’t quote further examples right now.

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All it says in Language of the Lines for 24.6 is "He has nothing to guide him. Not learning the essence of his experience his actions become hazardous"

Thankyou for sharing your readings with me. I don't think I have ever seen Richmonds work applied to actual real life situations before so its interesting to see it here, and also I don't know the text you're using, just having my book, i wasn't aware of that. Thanks for the link I'll have a look.

Personally i still find it too word salady and would rather have an image to link to than the convoluted sentences he seems to favour. I guess for me its too much Nigel Richmond not enough Yi. I imagine it simply would not be flexible enough for some every day life readings since he makes everything about inner experience so if you ask a practical question like 'is this garage reliable' he would be of no use...though i guess your question was practical.

I can understand why Trojan since sometimes some texts really seem archaic greek to me too.

Anyway, please see my interpretation and tell me honestly if you think I’m seeing too much or not:

“Our whole personal self is accepting and active in this tao where the outer is fully active but its source is inactive.”
I am doing so fine with the tao (taking the medicine) and this can be seen from outside. The inactive source = the brain lack of capacity to work properly.

“We are fully acting out and experiencing a phase of the life force which has now ceased to provide new impetus – we are carrying through something we have already begun.”
I am really more active and able to recognize the problem of lack of stimulus (I’d been hesitating to accept), that has improved with the med. Taking it made me carry through something and I always had problems in concluding things in life.

“This heralds the end of a cycle of activity because all of our activity comes from the inner and is expressed outwardly. The impetus from the inner life force is great (Chen). It flows freely in our outer world, in our identity, and in our inner being (all Kun). It announces the bad cycle is nearing the end and courage is going outside, flowing freely. The flow is fully outwards and fully accepted, a clearing out operation in which energy returns to its source, the inner, which makes it also a turning point in the cycle, an emptying out which makes room for the new to appear …”
The flow is recovered with the brain working well again and creating opportunities of renewal.

“For humans: To the place where we have been we return. To the mood we have lived we return. But returning is arising anew.”
Stopping shall make me return to feeling bad again, after all the painful process.

Now considering the part you quote out of Language of the Lines: “He has nothing to guide him” Without the med I miss guidance. Quitting is negative.

No doubt it is word salady . But I still see it easier to decode the word festival than to open perspective and see through the images where indeed I’m still crawling.

Hi Mary

Richmond's texts have a huge intuitive energetic element to them that open up a different perspective, away from those of the more traditional translations - Wilhelm, Legge etc. I find it helps to look at Richmond when I want to feel what is going on behind the lines. It's opened my eyes in all sorts of ways: a bit like with your medicine query..... but then again it's not to everyones taste.

With Richmond if you get it it can add to the overall beauty of the divination, if you don't get it .....enjoy the advice of what you have recieved.

Mike

Thanks Mike.
I fully agree with you. Through a different perspective we end up seeing similar replies and this is so enriching.
Wilhelm has always been my first option, it was my first Yi book and I always run to it. But I'm recently having some difficulty is specific readings that only after reading The I Ching Oracle by Richmond I see the horizon opening.
Take the example with the 24s I received. Each complements the other.
All the best.

Mary i can't really say whether you see too much into Richmonds words..the result was you decided it was a good idea to stop taking medication x., you found his words fitted your situation perfectly. if i got hex 24 for this question I think I would probably take it that it was a good idea to stop also, obviously not because of Richmonds words but because i tend to feel the nature of 24 is returning one to one original self so to speak or as someone here once said 24 is like 'reset to zero'..one has gone out, now one returns. I guess he says this in his own way.

The fact that his words meant so much to you and you feel sure of their meaning for you makes me feel there is more at play here than just understanding words...like you say you are 'crawling' (in relation to the understanding the Yi i presume) but don't forget your natural intuition belongs to you, you take it with you to all divinatory practices and maybe that intuition selects the books that speak most to you also..so I somehow don't feel you need to doubt yourself in understanding this answer through Richmond, thats how you connect best with the Yi at the moment....seems good to me, at least my intuition feels your intuition knows its stuff here er not that I'm in a position to judge but you know what i mean...i hope...

Yes Trojan, I know what you mean.

Reading 24 as "reset to zero" is just great. I also see it (in this case too) as Yi saying "Give another look and see the situation differently".

But maybe I did not express myself very well because since the beginning I decided I'm not going to quit. The reading says to me I'm doing so well with the medicine and this may not be the reason of the migraine. The second reading (24:6 >> 27) made me see further, that there's a problem with feeding. But my main purpose was to show you how Richmonds' words led me to that conclusion. Hope it's now clarified.

I asked your opinion especially for support to see if my intensity and interpreting capacity looks reasonable. Yes, I feel like crawling in interpreting the Yi (I do have intuition but still don't feel safe with it), especially in what respects seeing through the images. BTW I'm reading a very interesting book issued in the 90ies by Eranos Foundation ref. Ethics, Images and the Yi.
Maybe this deficiency of reading through images is why I found support in Richmond's text. But I'll never dispense with other authors, now even less after seeing further through this thread.

Thanks again

mary f said:

BTW I'm reading a very interesting book issued in the 90ies by Eranos Foundation ref. Ethics, Images and the Yi.

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What?! You wrote this the other day:

mary f said:

(it’s impossible to have some books delivered here in the jungle ). I’ll be glad to share an example with you so you may give me your opinion.

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You are telling me you were able to get that and no other books? Heck, I had difficulties finding and getting that delivered: IN CIVILIZED NEW JERSEY...

24 set to zero, love that. I don't have Nigel's books but everything I have seen of his strikes me as deep, warm/human, and insightful.

sparhawk said:

What?! You wrote this the other day:


You are telling me you were able to get that and no other books? Heck, I had difficulties finding and getting that delivered: IN CIVILIZED NEW JERSEY...

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One has got to find solutions...
I had to pay import taxes but it's worth it. I'm just not sure they can deliver in NJ...
http://www.livrariacultura.com.br/s...d=12221325411513498008904325&k5=16EE991C&uid=
They ship it to Rio de Janeiro then my friends post it to me in the jungle.
But there are some books (including the one with the yarrow stalks you recommended the other day) only available in international webshops which don't even know South America exists.

meng said:

24 set to zero, love that. I don't have Nigel's books but everything I have seen of his strikes me as deep, warm/human, and insightful.

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You may download from: http://www.biroco.com/yijing/richmond.htm

I'm picturing Mary surrounded by Lions and Tigers...my jungle image

trojan said:

I'm picturing Mary surrounded by Lions and Tigers...my jungle image

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ours only has some anacondas, spiders, anteaters, mosquitoes and a couple of jaguars left.

I wonder if you've met Ely Britto in Brazil? She an old friend from the now defunct Hex-8 mailing list. Very knowledgeable in the Yi, great heart, and someone I'm sure you'd enjoy meeting. I've never had the pleasure of meeting her in person but it would be one of my stops if I traveled to Brazil.

mary f said:

ours only has some anacondas, spiders, anteaters, mosquitoes and a couple of jaguars left.

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WHAT NO TREES !!!!!!!
I guess the loggers have been working overtime over the last few weeks.

Mike

my_key said:

WHAT NO TREES !!!!!!!
I guess the loggers have been working overtime over the last few weeks.

Mike

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There are some left though. For visitors.
Joking. There are some in my backyard too.

sparhawk said:

I wonder if you've met Ely Britto in Brazil? She an old friend from the now defunct Hex-8 mailing list. Very knowledgeable in the Yi, great heart, and someone I'm sure you'd enjoy meeting. I've never had the pleasure of meeting her in person but it would be one of my stops if I traveled to Brazil.

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I'm delighted with her!!! Thanks.
PS: I love the mailing list name.