Does the I Ching sometimes refuse to answer by giving a non-answer?

bostonian · Jul 31, 2009

A few times, I interpreted the I Ching as saying to me, in essence, "You've covered this ground with me a number of times. I have answered you. So it's time to back off." That's fine, but not what I'm referring to here.

What I'm referring to here is when the I Ching appears to give a completely non-responsive answer. Since the vast majority of the time the I Ching gives me what I consider very relevant responses, when I get an answer that doesn't seem at all responsive to my question, it surprises me. When that has happened, I asked it, "I have no idea what you're trying to tell me. Can you please explain?" The response to that is as irrelevant and non-responsive as the original query.

So my question is this: Are all responses relevant and my perception that they are not simply my inability to interpret them? Or are some responses purposely irrelevant and should be ignored?

meng · Jul 31, 2009

Indeed. I call it sun spots, a radio business reference to sun flares interrupting AM radio signals. There are times when it is just out of commission to me. The typical reaction is to question whether my questions became foolish or unhealthy, but it can happen during entirely lucid periods as well. I'd be guessing to offer a concrete reason for it.

Sparhawk · Jul 31, 2009

meng said:
Indeed. I call it sun spots,

Great analogy, IMO!

zhan1 · Jul 31, 2009

So my question is this: Are all responses relevant and my perception that they are not simply my inability to interpret them? Or are some responses purposely irrelevant and should be ignored?

Yes and no.

If a response just doesn't seem to connect with anything that is presently occupying your mind, take a break. Record the reading along with a few notes about your thoughts and set it aside. Later, (perhaps much later) if you continue to work with the Yi something will eventually resonate. I think that disregarding a response is not a good way to learn about the oracle.

Trojina · Jul 31, 2009

zhan1 said:
Yes and no.

If a response just doesn't seem to connect with anything that is presently occupying your mind, take a break. Record the reading along with a few notes about your thoughts and set it aside. Later, (perhaps much later) if you continue to work with the Yi something will eventually resonate. I think that disregarding a response is not a good way to learn about the oracle.

If the oracle is not answering you, and there certainly are times it doesn't I think, then it is very good to be aware of this rather than plough on inventing ways to make the answer fit. I think it is just a matter of not connecting sometimes, one can feel it on a gut level, one does tend to know when this happens. The reason it may not answer is not always to do with the question because you might ask the same question later and get a clear answer...I think its something indefinable, like just being out of synch, not on same frequency.., erm just not your way at that time.

Theres many ways the Yi says "i don't know" effectively..or put another way "suck it and see, don't ask me, you find it out by living it", lots of times i see 25 and 4 like this...but thats different to when the Yi is just not answering, and sometimes i think there can be quite long periods of not connecting with Yi at all. I think part of learning about the Yi is recognising these times clearly. Its not simply a cognitive working out process, you receive your answer on a gut level too..no point doing mental gymnastics over the answer when you know you're not actually connecting in the first place.

If its a question of not 'getting' the answer immediately that again feels different to not connecting..i think if people use the Yi alot over time they get to know how their individual relationship with it feels.

meng · Jul 31, 2009

I agree with giving it a nice rest and returning another time. Otherwise you wind up with a 57.3 situation.

heylise · Aug 1, 2009

trojan said:
... sometimes i think there can be quite long periods of not connecting with Yi at all. I think part of learning about the Yi is recognising these times clearly. Its not simply a cognitive working out process, you receive your answer on a gut level too..no point doing mental gymnastics over the answer when you know you're not actually connecting in the first place.

If its a question of not 'getting' the answer immediately that again feels different to not connecting..i think if people use the Yi alot over time they get to know how their individual relationship with it feels.

This is a lot like my experience. After you get to know the Yi a bit, you also get to know your own feelings better. It taught me to recognize if I connect, and that is not only connect to Yi, but just as well connect to my Self. One pulls the other along, or maybe connecting to myself is the base of understanding.

But for me not 'getting' it is directly related to not connecting. And getting to connecting.

Trojina · Aug 1, 2009

heylise said:
But for me not 'getting' it is directly related to not connecting. And getting to connecting.

yes i suppose it can be but sometimes I still feel I've connected even if i don't immediately get it..the answer seems 'full', can't unpack all of it or hear all of it at once but I can carry it around for a while and it will get clearer. But with the not connecting feeling i don't tend to carry it around, kind of know straight away this isn't a 'Yi time'..which i knew really before i consulted but for some reason not trusting that feeling consulted anyway.

I can still feel very much connected with Self and it still not be a good time to connect with Yi...infact if one feels really connected one may be less likely to need to ask...

hmmm well its all feelings i guess

fkegan · Aug 1, 2009

Hi Bostonian,
I wouldn't recommend ever just writing off a Yi Oracle as irrelevant nonsense. If you are used to getting a clearly intelligible response, then it is probably better, as zhan1 suggested, to journal it and review it later.
In general, the human mind is able to find connections between any and all things when it wants, so for you to find an Oracle that can't be connected would have to mean something in your experience.

There are always problems with one's expectations, and expecting the Yi Oracle answer to fit neatly into what you had in mind is an expectation just waiting to collapse and cause suffering. There may be a problem with the question not being suitable to answer. There may be a problem with how you normally interpret the Oracle text. Again, time is always a great improvement in perspective. And journaling is always an excellent way to get down into words what was your question and how you interpreted your Oracle answer and what was on your mind.

Try letting some of these difficult Yi answers age in a journal. What may seem unexpected may after a bit of analysis and time to be clearer in either its meaning or its problems that made for the strange answer.

Frank

zhan1 · Aug 1, 2009

If the oracle is not answering you, and there certainly are times it doesn't I think, then it is very good to be aware of this rather than plough on inventing ways to make the answer fit.

Keeping a log or a record of your readings and allowing time for them to sink in isn't the same as inventing ways to make them fit. If nothing else, it gives you material to review even if you feel you can't seriously consider it as an answer. Looking back you can see under what circumstances you thought you weren't being answered (of course, I don't agree with the idea that sometimes the oracle doesn't answer). I would completely agree that trying to make a response fit creates more difficulties.

I think its something indefinable, like just being out of synch, not on same frequency.., erm just not your way at that time.

Yes, this happens quite frequently. Querents are out of synch with the Yi in many cases because they have assumed that the oracle is limited to answering their question directly. The oracle can answer questions or it can come at you from various other angles, redirecting your attention to some other issue. People have their blind spots and the Yi is excellent at pointing this out.

dobro p · Aug 1, 2009

"Does the I Ching sometimes refuse to answer by giving a non-answer?"

I think I'm with Frank on this one. I mean, if you do a toss and you think the Yi's given you a non-answer, it might just be that you're not understanding the perfectly appropriate, perfectly good answer you've received. Give it more time perhaps, and look at the same answer later.

solun · Aug 2, 2009

some possibilities:

a) Save it for later
b) Ask again later, maybe rethinking the question
c) Consider your own responsivity threshhold in the reading
d) It could be saying that you already have an answer, this isn't the time to ask the yi.

bostonian · Aug 2, 2009

It just occurs to me that the two times i can remember this happening, my mind was made up ahead of time and what I wanted fro the I Ching was confirmation, not advice. I had decided on a course of action, and I threw the i Ching hoping it would say I'm doing the right thing. If it had said the opposite, i would have been unhappy but i would probably have ignored it. So i think that might explain it.

meng · Aug 2, 2009

I use Yi for affirmation and confirmation of my own ideas, without noticing any particular inconsistency. I kinda think that most of the time the Yi tells us what we already know anyway.

Interesting subject, which has come up a number of times here. Don't recall there ever being a consensus on it, just like most things. *chortles*

fkegan · Aug 2, 2009

bostonian said:
It just occurs to me that the two times i can remember this happening, my mind was made up ahead of time and what I wanted fro the I Ching was confirmation, not advice. I had decided on a course of action, and I threw the i Ching hoping it would say I'm doing the right thing. If it had said the opposite, i would have been unhappy but i would probably have ignored it. So i think that might explain it.

Hi Bostonian,
The instance you cite would definitely come under the Buddhist notion of "expectations". I have certainly had times when the Yi Oracle gave confirmation or personal support which I much appreciated. But to ask a question, believing that the Yi is expected to make a "confirmation" of prior decision of the will where any other answer would be "ignored"?
I wouldn't give an expected answer in that case were a person to treat my counsel with such an attitude. The Buddha tended to just sit silently when a question was asked him that did not allow for a proper answer to be given. The Yi did the equivalent in those cases. The fact that you still remember and wonder what they meant is your answer.

There is another thread under open space of a journalist who writes humorous columns of his difficulties trying to deal with market advice who cast the Yi Oracle and came to the conclusion its response was 'murky' as was "expected of an oracle". He quoted obscure sections from Book III, ignoring the simple facts of his Oracle (hex 34 no lines) or the clear statement of the section he cited, "The Superior Man does not tread upon paths that do not accord with established order."

I would suggest you consider such a "non-answer" to be a refusal to play along with you.

Frank

bostonian · Aug 2, 2009

I would suggest you consider such a "non-answer" to be a refusal to play along with you.

Yes, and that gives me even more confidence in the power of the I Ching. As a newcomer, i have been absolutely awestruck at how relevant the answers have been. And non-answers to what were essentially non-questions is also pretty amazing.

knotxx · Aug 5, 2009

Or sometimes -- and I know this has been discussed here -- you get a perfectly clear answer, but not directly to your question; Q Will I ever find love? A You need to calm down right now; or Get your head together! ; or You really need to stop pursuing this line of thought right now.

Or sometimes the answer is just crazy complicated. Sometimes I will ask, "What can you tell me that I can hear about X right now?"

el_2 · Aug 8, 2009

For what it's worth, here's what I usually do when I don't get the answer:

I try hard to understand it, work on it for days and come up with what I perceive to be the most probable answer the Yi gave me. I try to see it from different angles:
(a) the Yi gives a direct answer to my question, in which case, how can the oracle be interpreted? [whether I like the advice or not]
(b) the Yi is pointing to some other issue that it considers to be important, then what is my gut feeling about it? [lots of uncertainty here, but it sure rings a bell at some deep level]
(c) the Yi is refusing to answer altogether. [again, I may have a gut feeling that this is what it does]

Spending time on trying to understand usually, but not always, leads me to some tentative conclusion that seems to me to be the most probable interpretation at the time. Then I write down a couple of long paragraphs stating: "This is how I understood the answer you gave me ......... Please, confirm my interpretation and expand my understanding, or correct me if I'm wrong and help me see the point you're making".

I'm not saying that this has always been successful but it has certainly always been helpful. It has cleared up some issues, some other issues perhaps, but it still it keeps me in an ongoing dialogue with the Yi.

Finally, I've realized that I can't always reach an understanding but I can redirect my will to know or understand and my energy, and that I can always go back to the answer at some point in the future when it makes more sense.

el_2

heylise · Aug 8, 2009

My personal experience is, that when I don't understand the answer, I am not open enough. The cause is not what Yi 'does', or a wrong question, or an answer about something else.
Sometimes a little hint from someone else suddenly makes me see, and then it is so obvious that I cannot understand why it looked so dim before.

Usually looking at an incomprehensible answer again, later, does not help. The moment has passed, and any possibility for any 'AHA' passed with it.

But that is just me, I know that for others it works totally different.

el_2 · Aug 8, 2009

Personally, I may understand more or less what the Yi was trying to convey when I look at the answer at a later date (mind you, this is not always the case), but the difference may be that I'm relatively new to the I Ching. What I mean is that the way I don't sometimes connect to the answer will change in, say, a few years time. Now, it may be that despite my best efforts, I'm not knowledgeable or experienced enough so that feeling of not connecting may have a lot to do with that. I believe this will change with time and 'not connecting' will be much different. So, I don't know how I'll deal with it in the future. Perhaps incomprehensible answers will remain incomprehensible. Who knows?

Again, as I noted at the beginning of the post, I don't always make sense of the answers I've been given when I look at them at a later date.

el_2

Does the I Ching sometimes refuse to answer by giving a non-answer?

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