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How do you consult the yi?

noxlux

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I have been working with and studying the yi for the last couple of years, and recently made a step up with my interpretations of the results. If I were to describe how I consult it as a step by step process it would look something like this.

1 Consider the question, mull over it in my mind.

2 To the extent that it is possible, gather data about the question. If there are things in the external world which are relevant - then expose myself to them.

3 Throw the coins or whatever.

4 Read not only judgement, image and moving lines, but read ALL THE LINES OF BOTH HEXAGRAMS, and relate each of them to the situation at hand. As you know the lines often reflect one or several interwoven stories.

To me, this reading of ALL the lines has made a difference in the quality of my interpretations.

4b If there are no moving lines the complementary hexagram is often useful to read.

5 While reading the lines I hope for a crack in time - I have no better description of it. As you know one part of the sign for gua is a crack - as in the cracks of burned bones, but the crack I am speaking of is sort of where two times interconnect in the mind. (I am not speaking of synchronicity here, but I suppose for those who believe in synchronicity a part of this crack may well be percieved as one)

All the best
Noxlux
 

heylise

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While reading the lines I hope for a crack in time - I have no better description of it. As you know one part of the sign for gua is a crack - as in the cracks of burned bones, but the crack I am speaking of is sort of where two times interconnect in the mind. (I am not speaking of synchronicity here, but I suppose for those who believe in synchronicity a part of this crack may well be percieved as one)

Love that. A crack in time. I know what you mean, and I know how it feels, but never knew a good name for it, only clumsy circumscriptions. "Two times interconnect in the mind". I think it is more than synchronicity, it is the creativity of the mind, and hitting on it feels extremely rewarding.

I agree with everything you do in your reading. Not only reading the information you need for your question, but diving deep into the complete meaning of the hexagrams, creating a landscape for your question. That way you get more out of your reading than an answer.
 

lindsay

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While reading the lines I hope for a crack in time - I have no better description of it. As you know one part of the sign for gua is a crack - as in the cracks of burned bones, but the crack I am speaking of is sort of where two times interconnect in the mind. (I am not speaking of synchronicity here, but I suppose for those who believe in synchronicity a part of this crack may well be percieved as one)

Hi Nolux -

Yes, this idea of a "crack in time" is very interesting. Lise, who is one of the most intuitive people here (or anywhere else), says she understands exactly what you mean. I am not so gifted, so I was wondering if you could explain this a little more for me.

"As you know one part of the sign for gua is a crack - as in the cracks of burned bones . . ." Well, I never knew "one part of the sign for the gua is a crack", but this makes a lot of sense to me. Yes, as you say, precisely because of "the cracks of burned bones". But how do we know where the crack is in a gua?

Maybe this is the answer: "the crack I am speaking of is sort of where two times interconnect in the mind". I am confused about "two times" - do you mean the present and the future? Or perhaps you mean two moments, like two photographs of the same scene from different perspectives, that help you triangulate the situation, and see it more clearly in several dimensions? In this case, the Yi would be like a pair of 3-D spectacles that allow you to see something - a situation, a person, a problem - develop through time, unfold in your mind?

It is interesting that you brush aside synchronicity, which I take to be "meaningful coincidence". The question always comes up, "meaningful for whom?" There is no reason the Yi should answer a question in a way that is personally meaningful for the asker (querent). I mean, the key to a developing situation may not involve you at all, it may be contingent on factors you don't even know about. Your "crack in time" shows a connection in time, like two frames in a film - but you may not even be in the video.

I am only guessing what you mean. Can you help me understand?

Lindsay
 

heylise

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gua-hex.gif

卦 guà, see also here. The part at right is a picture of a crack in an oracle bone.

I said 'more than synchronicity', not because I think it is different, just that it goes a step further. Not always, often you stop at the point where it feels like you got an answer. The synchronicity of your situation and question and casting the coins or whatever, and the text of the Yi having a clear connection with your question.

If you can create something out of you+answer, then it is the magic of real divination. Like one shaman seeing the flight of the birds and knowing "this bodes ill", and another one seeing the same image but also seeing how to create the means to do something about the bad fortune which is going to happen. The first one sees the synchronicity, the second one picks it up and shapes the future - "fashions and completes the Dao of Heaven and Earth".

Not answering instead of Noxlux, just what I understood from what he said.
 

lindsay

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Thank you, Lise. I misunderstood what Nolux wrote about "crack" being part of the sign of gua. I don't pay as much attention to etymology as I should.

Now that I know what Nolux meant, I'm even more interested, because it seems to me that the "gua" character forms a link between Yi divination and Shang scapulimancy. In other words, that word "gua" seems to indicate the ancient Chinese thought about the hexagrams as being similar to bone-cracking in terms of what kind of operation was being performed.

Everybody always assumes the Zhouyi is a descendant or at least near relative of the Shang oracle bone inscriptions (OBI). I always wondered about that assumption, because from what I read, the Shang OBI weren't at all like Yi divinations. It's true the Yi refers to tortoise-shell divination in a couple of places, but the connection to Yi divination isn't obvious. But now, seeing the sign for "crack" inside a technical Yi term like "gua", I see a definite connection.

The rest of what you write is also very interesting. Is it true the difference between a mediocre diviner and a good diviner is that the good diviner understands exactly what needs to be done, not just the vague outlines of the situation?

It is interesting you refer to a reading indicating "bad fortune." I think Bradford and some others just posted a stickie to the effect that no line is inherently good or bad, it all depends on the situation. I'm not at all sure I agree with this. In fact, I have a source that assigns a scale of good/bad luck to every line, and I think it works. Personally, I think determining one's luck is a major part of many readings.

Lindsay
 
M

maremaria

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It is interesting you refer to a reading indicating "bad fortune." I think Bradford and some others just posted a stickie to the effect that no line is inherently good or bad, it all depends on the situation. I'm not at all sure I agree with this. In fact, I have a source that assigns a scale of good/bad luck to every line, and I think it works. Personally, I think determining one's luck is a major part of many readings.

Lindsay

Some time ago I was very ill. I went to many doctors but each of them depending on it specialty gave its own diagnosis showing a lot of disrespect to other doctors . I was the patient and I felt that nobody could helped me. I needed to know who enemy I had to fight and I became a audience of those fight between doctors. Them I met some people that helped me to understand what was going on with my health. Not really good news ( a bad omen…) but knowing the root of my illness make me feel a bit calmer and then I started fighting that enemy because I knew. Not everything but more than before.

During that period, I had to make a decision. Asked Yi and got 63.4. Ouch !!! Didn’t make me very happy but it was a very good advice.

There is a beautiful sculpture showing a crack. It reminds me a lot way Yi works. My impression is that the crack appears in our shield and then the light comes in or goes out... not sure for the direction yet.

(p.s. can't find the artist's name.. will correct it in the future)

CRACK-P-1.jpg


 

fkegan

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Hi Maria,

Nice image of the Divine fire cracking the solid sculpture of expectations.

Everybody always assumes the Zhouyi is a descendant or at least near relative of the Shang oracle bone inscriptions (OBI). I always wondered about that assumption, because from what I read, the Shang OBI weren't at all like Yi divinations. It's true the Yi refers to tortoise-shell divination in a couple of places, but the connection to Yi divination isn't obvious. But now, seeing the sign for "crack" inside a technical Yi term like "gua", I see a definite connection.

Hi Lindsay,

I came across an article by an academic archeologist noting that his research involved the vast heaps of oracle bones with questions and cracks that extend through many centuries and suddenly disappear by 1000 BCE. Not knowing anything about I Ching divination, he had no explanation for this mystery of the disappearance.

In history of technology class, my prof noted that the first pottery bowls are carefully marked to look like earlier reed bowls. The first metal knives carefully worked to look like flint knives they replaced. The many centuries of Shang era divination terms are noted in the characters (words) of the I Ching not because they are actually connected, but because that was the vocabulary folks knew and expected. The fact that the oracle bone heaps disappeared shows the new divination was a decisive improvement. The expectations of fortune tellers and folks seeking divination establish the continuity of slogans and word elements.

The popular understanding remained the same though the answers available went through a major change. Unfortunately, history of technology suggests innovations remain shrouded and misunderstood, only passed on through ritual instruction for 4 millennia before emerging into daily secular understanding. 4 millennia between the pottery Venus figures and the first pottery bowl, similarly with metal objects before there was a metal knife for daily use.

This new millennium we just started in 2001 is only 3,000 years since the Chou I Ching. We are down to just 3 digits of calendar wait for divination in our academic curriculum and the notions of simple good fortune/misfortune are replaced by the full range of symbolic meaning expressed in the gestalt of the Yi.

Frank
 

lindsay

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Thank you, Maria, for telling your story. It is amazing how the Yi so often slices through the fog. 63.4 is an incredible reading under your circumstances. But then line 4 changes hexagram 63 to hexagram 49, Sudden Change. I hope you experienced such a change, and that it was a good one!

In terms of luck, by my reading, 63.4 is neutral, neither good nor bad - or perhaps the good offsets the bad.

I like your sculpture very much - it's an interesting idea to make a cracked representation of an otherwise perfect human body, and have light beaming through the cracks! As you say, cracks let light in and let light out. I think our cracks and flaws and blemishes have a disproportionate influence on the development of our characters. The smallest imperfection is far more significant and important to us than the 99% of perfection. We are more sensitive, vulnerable, open, receptive in our flawed parts. The crack is a wonderful symbol of imperfection and its mostly beneficial result.

But a "crack in time"? This is what Nolux is proposing. What happens when time cracks? Can we be two places at the same time if we slip through the crack? Is it possible to have a flaw in time? Time is very difficult to think about in the abstract, even when it isn't cracked.

I wish you good health so you can pursue your zest for life to its fullest. I remember you like Nikos Kazantzakis, and I'm a fan too. Over the years I've read many of his books, including the long poem of "The Odyssey: A Modern Sequel" (33,333 verses!) and many of his novels. He was a great writer, a great soul.

Lindsay
 
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maremaria

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Thank you Lindsay for you warm words. I like Kazantzakis a lot, but i read his works when i was younger, so nowadays I believe I haven't really "read" him. But i'll do it...

to the point...

But a "crack in time"? This is what Nolux is proposing. What happens when time cracks? Can we be two places at the same time if we slip through the crack? Is it possible to have a flaw in time? Time is very difficult to think about in the abstract, even when it isn't cracked.

I don't know. It feels like a leap into another realm. Maybe the crack is just an entrance. But why this entrance is not allways visible ? How many "meaningful coincindences" have crossed by without notice them ? I think that the crack is in myself when I "see".

Lindsay :"Can we be two places at the same time if we slip through the crack?" this reminds me some dreams where we stand in a corner or somewhere high and observe from a distance ourself. The body is somewhere there but we are here.
 

lindsay

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Yes, me too. I read Kazantzakis years ago when I was young. I wonder if I still have the psychic energy to deal with his level of intensity. He had a big impact on me at the time - I'll never forget certain parts of his books. Now I prefer more staid reading - like the I Ching. Not exactly an existentialist classic. And yet, what could be more existentialist than divination?

Lindsay
 

Sparhawk

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Now I prefer more staid reading - like the I Ching. Not exactly an existentialist classic. And yet, what could be more existentialist than divination?

You must be kidding. Yixue is a contact sport! We should be wearing helmets... :rofl:
 
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meng

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But a "crack in time"? This is what Nolux is proposing. What happens when time cracks? Can we be two places at the same time if we slip through the crack? Is it possible to have a flaw in time? Time is very difficult to think about in the abstract, even when it isn't cracked.

Hey stranger,

I took "crack in time" pretty much like your "be in two (or more) places at one time". Especially if the crack isn't a straight line, but rather a line which links, which means it's more like a web, like Maria's staue image: Gathering friends, as a hair clasp gathers the hair, 16.4. Viva le kapow! Lightening which binds. It might bind two or more times, or people, or incidences, or memories; tying them together with present feelings, thoughts and reactions. The whole enchilada is presented for our pickin's. We pick what we need to fill the void, the emotion or the question. I tend to see the crack as a moving warp, like a dew covered spider's web gently waving in the breeze.
 

lindsay

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The whole enchilada is presented for our pickin's.

Luis, you and Bradford need to get off the steroids. I've seen you two twirling yarrow stalks like fighting sticks in a kung-fu movie. Better watch out - the IICC (International I Ching Committee) will pull your divination licenses. Or you may end up in the "Moderation" penalty box. Next time, I'm going to turn you guys in to Hilary.

Bruce, you're great, I'll glad you're still here laying it down the way it is. You're a very candid fellow (har!, har!, har!). Anyway, I really love enchiladas. I mean, I have a passion for enchiladas. I order them in every Mexican restaurant where I eat. Yum, yum, yum. I'm so glad the Yi is giving me the whole enchilada - that's a symbol I can really appreciate!

Lindsay
 
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lindsay

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Note: Read "turn you in to Hilary" as in "report you to Hilary". Not "turn you into Hilary". I'd never turn you guys into Hilary - one is quite enough, thank you. But I'm very glad there's one.
 
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Sparhawk

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I knew there was a wizard in you, capable of turning people into other nice creatures, if a bit obfuscated of late. :D
 
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noxlux

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LiSe

Thank you for your words. They mean a great deal to me, perhaps especially the point of the shaman who prevents the ill omen from manifesting. It is always a pleasure to interact with people who are more experienced. I am still contemplating what you have written.


Lindsay

I find it tricky to venture into further descriptions. However, imagine this if you like.

As an ancient shaman you are sitting in front of a fire, the fire turns into glowing coals which provide a nice resting point for the eyes and a contrast to the dark night around you. You start to daydream from the deeper recesses of your mind, the dreams are about the past and about the future.

Now you throw a scapula on the fire. Suddenly a crack appears on it. Maybe you are aware that your dreams go along that crack. Next the crack continues and turns a little to the left or to the right. Again this influences your dream, perhaps the crack is in perfect alignment, perhaps it creates a dynamic tension between what you were dreaming and the direction it takes, the crack twists again and your dream takes on an entirely new direction. Perhaps also the crack turns in a way which deviates totally from the dream.

Now, the yi, you are consulting it. Reading each of the hexagrams' lines and allowing each to become a window through which you regard the situation you are consulting about (and sometimes they become a window to something more important). You are activating deeper layers of thinking - you are thinking with your whole mind rather than that which in me at least is the shallow rational part which I use a lot during my everyday waking experience. The stories and sequences of the hexagram work a bit like the crack in the scapula - and vice versa, the knowledge and dreams you have about life influence how you interpret the lines.

On a side note, I do not personally subscribe to the idea of synchronicity, as I take it to mean that the universe orders itself in a way which fits my interpretations, I think it is the other way around: that my mind creates meaning out of coincidences. I consider this a metaphysical question, and have no problem with the opposite view. I didn't intend to be dismissive about it, in fact I often percieve the world as if it were filled with synchronicities, it is just that I do not believe that is the way the universe works.

However, when I deal with the Yi, I often find myself personalising it. Regarding it as an expression of an "intelligence", a far wiser being than myself. This is not what I believe it is - this is just how I experience it.

There is also something else going on. Again something I find difficult to put into words. On the one hand we have the totality of your being, on the other hand we have the being of Yi, there is some kind of "melding" which is fruitful.

All the best
Noxlux
 

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