there's a new girl in town (also - cledonomany and lateral divination)

neegula · Nov 26, 2009

hi! i'm very very new here, i'm reading since few days what you are writing and i'm already in love with this forum!
since ten years or so i'm "practicing" with Yi, asking and reading answers and i'm very happy a found a clever "place" where to share.

i was born and i'm living in italy; i hope my english will not give problems while discussing here. please, be patient if i make some me*s.

in addition to the I Ching, i also love bibliomancy and all forms of divination that people and nature and the great spirit are "offering".

interested in art, above all contemporary dance.
interested in humans, above all open minded and hearted ones.

meet you soon here and there

neegula
p.s. i adopted my nick name from the dialect of my origin land (north of itlay, close to milan) and normally i write it nigula, but for posting in english i changed it in neegula so that it will not be read as naigula!

pantherpanther · Nov 26, 2009

Hi,
I have never heard your nickname , in Italian. Could it be from nuvola - "cloud"?
Bibliomancy as the Commedia, the sonnets of Hafez etc.?

pink_mandolin · Nov 26, 2009

Hello

Hi neegula, lovely to meet you

See you around Clarity! :hug:

charly · Nov 26, 2009

neegula said:
... p.s. i adopted my nick name from the dialect of my origin land (north of itlay, close to milan) and normally i write it nigula, but for posting in english i changed it in neegula so that it will not be read as naigula!

Hi, Neegula:

Welcome to the forum. I don't understand too much italian, although it's close to my heart, my mother was born Rossi.

I have some italian words in my mind, even sequences (not counting the ones incorporated into my country slang), many of them associated with film scenes, like lavoratori, sportivo, terremoto, bombardamento, modestamente ...

But Nigula I even didn't found it in the dizionario!

La ricerca di Nigula non ha prodotto risultati.
Ti suggeriamo di controllare l'ortografia e di ritentare oppure di provare la ricerca nelle forme flesse.
La redazione del Dizionario Italiano è stata avvisata e, se il lemma esiste, sarà esaminato e prontamente inserito. Ci scusiamo per l'inconveniente.

Dizionario Italiano: online il dizionario della lingua italiana!

What it means?

Yours,

Charly:bows:

neegula · Nov 27, 2009

hi to everysoul! (which is synonim and opposite of everybody...)
thanks for wellcoming!

nigula comes from the dialect of my land, not from italian actually.
in dialect means cloud, nuvola (you were right, panther!)
so, charly, which are italian sentences incorporated in your slang? (english slang, or?)

panther, bibliomancy i practice is on any book that i may have close, above all dictionary.
for "minor" questions it has been nice to have a look even in films' dictionary!
i'm going to get some new books; i opened a link to bibliomancy here in these last days and this thing was fascinating me a lot!
the other divination form i love is ..well in italy it is spelled cledonomanzia: the art of divinating observing signes in nature and words of humans (should derivate from clédon, greek, in the sense of Auguri who were priests making divination in ancient etruria (toscana) and rome)

buzzurro · Nov 27, 2009

Hi Neegula!

Well, needless to say... could I neglect welcoming you?!

:bows:

maremaria · Nov 28, 2009

Hi Neegula and welcome

neegula said:
the other divination form i love is ..well in italy it is spelled cledonomanzia: the art of divinating observing signes in nature and words of humans (should derivate from clédon, greek, in the sense of Auguri who were priests making divination in ancient etruria (toscana) and rome)

Never heard about "cledonomanzia". Care to say more about it ? Is it like something concerns you and then you hear a song on the radio, or overhear a discussion or sth like that and then you have an Aha -time ?

Maria

neegula · Nov 28, 2009

maremaria said:
Hi Neegula and welcome

Never heard about "cledonomanzia". Care to say more about it ? Is it like something concerns you and then you hear a song on the radio, or overhear a discussion or sth like that and then you have an Aha -time ?

Maria

hallo maria! nice to meet you! (and to everybody else :hug:

)

cledonomanzia means: you Ask a question while sitting in your room, than you go out in the "village"; the first few words that you hear are the Answer.
for instance "is it favourable to invite this person for a coffee?" you may hear someone around saying "they brought him to hospital, he was in very bad conditions" or "she is very good at school, such a nice girl". the very first few words give you the idea of what the situation/choice could be.
in some case you can make the same thing looking at signs in nature instead of listening to people words. of course in this case it depends much more on personal interpretation; if i see a snake i'll get a different interpretation than a cristian person may get: for me the snake is regeneration or the power of the Feminine principles. for someone else it can mean danger or sin.
we may "use" this practice also about songs, talks on tv.

someone is sure that cledonomanzia is working just in spontaneous form: for instance, it happens that while driving a thought comes in my mind; while i'm very focused on this thought i may see different signals: two squirrels playing together or a hearse.

personally it happens to me to live cledonomanzia in the second way i wrote about, the spontaneous one, but i don't neglect the first one.

hope my written english was quite clear

to everysoul: have a nice time in this week end!:bows:

neegula · Nov 28, 2009

pink_mandolin said:
Hi neegula, lovely to meet you See you around Clarity!

neegula · Nov 28, 2009

buzzurro said:
Hi Neegula!
could I neglect welcoming you?!
:bows:

so you are not so buzzurro... :rolling:

:bows:

heylise · Nov 28, 2009

Hi Neegula with such a beautiful name, or rather alias which is a name you give yourself. A choice of your own.

Welcome!

:bows:

frank_r · Nov 28, 2009

welcome

Hallo Neegula,

Welcome! Nice to hear a new friendly voice.

Frank

Trojina · Nov 28, 2009

neegula said:
the other divination form i love is ..well in italy it is spelled cledonomanzia: the art of divinating observing signes in nature and words of humans (should derivate from clédon, greek, in the sense of Auguri who were priests making divination in ancient etruria (toscana) and rome)

neegula said:
hallo maria! nice to meet you! (and to everybody else)

cledonomanzia means: you Ask a question while sitting in your room, than you go out in the "village"; the first few words that you hear are the Answer.
[I]for instance "is it favourable to invite this person for a coffee?" you may hear someone around saying "they brought him to hospital, he was in very bad conditions" or "she is very good at school, such a nice girl". the very first few words give you the idea of what the situation/choice could be.[/I]

in some case you can make the same thing looking at signs in nature instead of listening to people words. of course in this case it depends much more on personal interpretation; if i see a snake i'll get a different interpretation than a cristian person may get: for me the snake is regeneration or the power of the Feminine principles. for someone else it can mean danger or sin.
we may "use" this practice also about songs, talks on tv.

someone is sure that cledonomanzia is working just in spontaneous form: for instance, it happens that while driving a thought comes in my mind; while i'm very focused on this thought i may see different signals: two squirrels playing together or a hearse.

personally it happens to me to live cledonomanzia in the second way i wrote about, the spontaneous one, but i don't neglect the first one.

hope my written english was quite clear

to everysoul: have a nice time in this week end!:bows:

Wow ! ... someone else who knows the word for this. I came across it it a book on oracles and thought it was great to have a word for happenings such as these, kind of natural divination. In my book these occurences were just called 'cledons', interesting in Italy you have 'cledonomanzia', an actual form of divining

Yes its amazing how this happens, happens even without conscious asking of the question. One of my most memorable times it happened i was walking in town wondering if i should take another course of antibiotics, that question was going around in the back of my mind. Just then I heard a passer by say to his companion "...antibiotics are the way to go" .

Happens sometimes when you are thinking of some dilemma, glance up around you and some words stand out in such a particular way as to answer your question precisely..,like words on a passing bus, someones newspaper etc....the coffee example you gave above, thats just how it is. Probably happens often to everyone but we don't always hear.

welcome

46thevanguard · Nov 28, 2009

OMG there's a word for it! Which has got to be the coolest thing ever.

Other ways of using this: have you ever had a slightly 'off' thought, and 'accidentally' dropped something--like too much salt in the soup? Or written something and found an unexpected typo? Songs on the radio. Yep. We all know that happens. There are 'echos' everywhere. The snippets of words you overhear on the television, for example. But it can be incredibly subtle, this tuning into the natural world, as well as into the unseen world.

Sudden inspiration is another manifestation. The steadying 'voice' that you hear in your heart is yet another.

I've done this since I was a child. Somewhat naturally. I began to explore the Tart in my teens. I encountered the I ching in the 70s at the kind of spiritual retreat that that was popular back int he day. I am now an elder. Looking forward to hearing from my kindred.

pantherpanther · Nov 29, 2009

Neegula,
Thanks for confirming my guess at your nice nickname.

personally it happens to me to live cledonomanzia in the second way i wrote about, the spontaneous one, but i don't neglect the first one.

Interesting description of this word. The first way seems more like casting : forming a question in a quiet state and then observing for signs that appear. With the spontaneous way , omens and signs may relate to me or not, may relate to others or an environment , the feelings of a crowd and so on. When a friend died, a falcon came to my window. It wanted my attention. A spontaneous omen ,I felt.

Bibliomancy seems to raise similar questions. With a book like the I Ching, the Bible, the sonnets of Shakespeare etc one feels the source is intelligent. With a list of TV titles, a dictionary or such, maybe it's not intelligent, although it may play fun games.

buzzurro · Nov 29, 2009

neegula said:
so you are not so buzzurro...
:bows:

Well, I do hope so, but it sounds funny, doesn't it?

trojan said:
interesting in Italy you have 'cledonomanzia', an actual form of divining

Actually, that's very interesting to me too, I had never heard this word before!

On the other hand there's a very popular form of divining that's commonly called "reading coffee dregs", and I'm sure there must be a more specific term for that, but hardly anyone knows it.

Now, after a little bit of googling, I learned that the English for cledonomanzia is cledonism, or cledonomancy.

Now, I can't recall any particular situation in which I decided to take some words heard by chance as a direct answer to my concerns, but there's an episode that happened to me just a couple of weeks ago that I had already considered to talk about here on Clarity.

It was 2 AM on a friday, or maybe saturday night. I was sitting on a bench in front of my house, smoking the last cigarette before going to bed, while also reading my Wilhelm translation, trying to make sense of my most recent reading. And then a car passed by, and the guy who was sitting near the driver leaned out and shouted: "You ball of stone!"
Ball of stone...?

What was that supposed to mean...? And was he shouting at me...? Apparently yes, since there was no other living entity in sight...

Now, from a strictly rational point of view, this statement told me a lot about what this guy had been smoking, drinking, or both...

But I also thought that the apparent meaninglessness, pointlessness, and also randomness of those words made them appear as a very meaningful omen, like some sort of hint coming from the universe to help me in the interpretation!

PS: should you be wondering, I'm also definitely slim, I certainly don't look like a ball!

neegula · Nov 29, 2009

heylise said:
Hi Neegula with such a beautiful name, or rather alias which is a name you give yourself. A choice of your own.

Welcome! :bows:

halloooo!

frank_r said:
Hallo Neegula,

Welcome! Nice to hear a new friendly voice.

Frank

hallo, i'm glad to meet you

trojan said:
"...antibiotics are the way to go" .

Probably happens often to everyone but we don't always hear.

never happened hearing about omeopathie or phytoterapie?

46thevanguard said:
OMG there's a word for it!

Other ways of using this: have you ever had a slightly 'off' thought, and 'accidentally' dropped something--like too much salt in the soup?

Sudden inspiration is another manifestation. The steadying 'voice' that you hear in your heart is yet another.

Looking forward to hearing from my kindred.

what does it mean OMG?!

what you think does move our inspiration?
why are certain people more on alert than other?
why in certain periods we are more alert than in others?

ehm... kindred? means in this case?

neegula · Nov 29, 2009

pantherpanther said:
With the spontaneous way , omens and signs may relate to me or not, may relate to others or an environment

Bibliomancy seems to raise similar questions. With a book like the I Ching, the Bible, the sonnets of Shakespeare etc one feels the source is intelligent. With a list of TV titles, a dictionary or such, maybe it's not intelligent, although it may play fun games.

i don't divinate so much for others, actually, spontaneously or not.
i don't know if it is something i'm lacking of or what...

yes, i used to ask very light and nice questions to the dictionary of films, like: what can i do today for my self/relation/kids'party/so on?

i prefer cledonism in nature signs and in people'words/songs.
i prefer also studying and reading a book, whichever it is, than to make divination on it

buzzurro said:
On the other hand there's a very popular form of divining that's commonly called "reading coffee dregs"

Now, after a little bit of googling, I learned that the English for cledonomanzia is cledonism, or cledonomancy.

PS: should you be wondering, I'm also definitely slim, I certainly don't look like a ball!

i read sometimes tea dregs, it's very sweet!
one may see some drawings..the right side of our brain reads some images, i think.

thanks for the dictionary, a little treasure from you

what an adventure without even moving from your chair!
the fact is if you can recall the specific thought you were "having" in that moment, when the car arrived.
in my past i had to "train" a bit for keeping the attention both on the thought and the fact going on: i was resetting the first one at once as the fact started manifestating (hope i'm explaining what i mean...

).

Trojina · Nov 29, 2009

buzzurro said:
Now, after a little bit of googling, I learned that the English for cledonomanzia is cledonism, or cledonomancy.

Now, I can't recall any particular situation in which I decided to take some words heard by chance as a direct answer to my concerns, but there's an episode that happened to me just a couple of weeks ago that I had already considered to talk about here on Clarity.

It was 2 AM on a friday, or maybe saturday night. I was sitting on a bench in front of my house, smoking the last cigarette before going to bed, while also reading my Wilhelm translation, trying to make sense of my most recent reading. And then a car passed by, and the guy who was sitting near the driver leaned out and shouted: "You ball of stone!"
Ball of stone...? What was that supposed to mean...? And was he shouting at me...? Apparently yes, since there was no other living entity in sight...
Now, from a strictly rational point of view, this statement told me a lot about what this guy had been smoking, drinking, or both...
But I also thought that the apparent meaninglessness, pointlessness, and also randomness of those words made them appear as a very meaningful omen, like some sort of hint coming from the universe to help me in the interpretation!

PS: should you be wondering, I'm also definitely slim, I certainly don't look like a ball!

I should stress it feels nothing like a decision as such (to me)..its kind of more under the radar than that. Afterall i hear lots of passsing converstions, words on buses etc etc i don't take them all as meaningful to me....or i would go mad or be mad i think. Its just like now and then theres a particular moment with a certain kind of quality where the thought/question you have aligns with the words spoken etc and the words spoken well you just notice them in a different kind of way...sort of as if they really stand out or are highlighted in some way. I only take it as meaningful to me when i feel this quality, i don't go looking for it deliberately, it just happens now and then. But then yes i guess there is a decision in the end of whether one will take it as meaningful or not

What does 'buzzaro' mean ? heh heh your story is very strange "You ball of stone" !?

what was the reading you were looking up in Wilhelm ? Was it 16.2 by any chance ? Would you care to share what you thought the words meant ? well not if its too personal of course. But the other thing i note in these kind of 'cledons' is often the words, or snatches of conversation you hear are quite peculiar as in your example..and in mine i heard no other part of the conversation except "antiobiotics are the way to go" which is a sorta odd thing to say...standing in isolation.

Trojina · Nov 29, 2009

neegula said:
never happened hearing about omeopathie or phytoterapie?

what does it mean OMG?!

what you think does move our inspiration?
why are certain people more on alert than other?
why in certain periods we are more alert than in others?

ehm... kindred? means in this case?

OMG is short for 'Oh My God'. 'Kindred' means those of like mind, like brothers and sisters, those who you feel you belong with.

Can you tell me what is omeopathie and phytoterapie ? are these real words or were you joking with me

neegula · Nov 29, 2009

trojan said:
I should stress it feels nothing like a decision as such (to me)..its kind of more under the radar than that. Afterall i hear lots of passsing converstions, words on buses etc etc i don't take them all as meaningful to me....or i would go mad or be mad i think. Its just like now and then theres a particular moment with a certain kind of quality where the thought/question you have aligns with the words spoken etc and the words spoken well you just notice them in a different kind of way...sort of as if they really stand out or are highlighted in some way. I only take it as meaningful to me when i feel this quality, i don't go looking for it deliberately, it just happens now and then. But then yes i guess there is a decision in the end of whether one will take it as meaningful or not

What does 'buzzaro' mean ? heh heh your story is very strange "You ball of stone" !? what was the reading you were looking up in Wilhelm ? Was it 16.2 by any chance ? Would you care to share what you thought the words meant ? well not if its too personal of course. But the other thing i note in these kind of 'cledons' is often the words, or snatches of conversation you hear are quite peculiar as in your example..and in mine i heard no other part of the conversation except "antiobiotics are the way to go" which is a sorta odd thing to say...standing in isolation.

i totally agree with you within the first part of the post!
i agree with simplicity in the moment of Presence you are talking about

so simple that one cannot even talk about it really

buzzurro means someone of gross habits and behavour

but it sounds quite sweetly, metaforically speaking

i think that three words are "enough" for reading an answer, even less, even one!

i normally use omeopathie and fytoterapy if i'm sick;
i don't know, now, if you are making joke of me! really, you've never heard about?

aren't you living in UK? as far as i know there's a lot of people using them there...

they are "alternative" way of healing, assuming remedies instead of medicines like for instance antibiotics.
in phytoterapy normally products are made of "plants". i don't know so much about it.
in omeopathie, that is the one i personally use much more, remedies are made with different "materials" such vegetables, shells, minerals, etc. i don't know so much about the composition 'cause i'm not a scientist about that, but i know a little bit of the practical use of these substance.
my son got one antibiotics when he was newborn.
my daughter had one antibiotic last year for, unfortunately, a broncopolmonite.
for the rest, until now, we are not using academic, traditional medicines.
our doctor works in milan, privately.

hope i explained a bit...

peterg · Nov 29, 2009

Books that talk back to you

The only two books I know of that routinely talk back to people are the bible and the yijing.Although it can happen with any book when a section suddenly comes alive and you feel you are being spoken to directly by someone.This happened to me for eg. when flicking thro. a rubbishy book about dianetics.
Neegula, your english is actually very charming.

Trojina · Nov 29, 2009

neegula said:
buzzurro means someone of gross habits and behavour but it sounds quite sweetly, metaforically speaking

i think that three words are "enough" for reading an answer, even less, even one!

i normally use omeopathie and fytoterapy if i'm sick;
i don't know, now, if you are making joke of me! really, you've never heard about?
aren't you living in UK? as far as i know there's a lot of people using them there...

they are "alternative" way of healing, assuming remedies instead of medicines like for instance antibiotics.
in phytoterapy normally products are made of "plants". i don't know so much about it.
in omeopathie, that is the one i personally use much more, remedies are made with different "materials" such vegetables, shells, minerals, etc. i don't know so much about the composition 'cause i'm not a scientist about that, but i know a little bit of the practical use of these substance.

hope i explained a bit...

Buzzaro mean someone of gross habits ?! I shall bear that in mind

Maybe you mean 'homeopathy' (in english) when you say 'omeothapie' and 'phyoterapy' is herbal remedies..? ..anyway i understand you mean actual physical therapies, i thought perhaps you meant these were other kinds of divining.

Be cool if each kind of divining had its own word, like a word for 'the omens of cats' or 'the omens of clouds'..or even 'the omens of buses' maybe 'busomancy' :mischief:

peterg · Nov 29, 2009

The right side of the brain

When I've had enough of words I retreat to tarot imagery.It uses a different part of the brain.I dont own a deck so I cast online about once a month maybe, always a rider-waite celtic cross.

neegula · Nov 29, 2009

peterg said:
The only two books I know of that routinely talk back to people are the bible and the yijing.Although it can happen with any book when a section suddenly comes alive and you feel you are being spoken to directly by someone.

something that appearently has nothing to do:
someone here has read "conversations with god?"
according to me it is (as far as i remember it) a bit newager, but..it seems that someone is speaking to you directly for the whole time you read..

peterg said:
Neegula, your english is actually very charming.

thank you dear, but maybe not always...

neegula · Nov 29, 2009

trojan said:
Maybe you mean 'homeopathy' (in english) when you say 'omeothapie' and 'phyoterapy' is herbal remedies..?

sorry if i missed the h, but in the last post i ddin't exchange the syllabes order

maybe i did before?!
yes, homeopathy

trojan said:
Be cool if each kind of divining had its own word, like a word for 'the omens of cats' or 'the omens of clouds'..or even 'the omens of buses' maybe 'busomancy'

yes, and after the toilettemancy i will take as only answer from Yi hex. 4 :rolling:

and start all over again!:bag:

neegula · Nov 29, 2009

peterg said:
When I've had enough of words I retreat to tarot imagery.It uses a different part of the brain.I dont own a deck so I cast online about once a month maybe, always a rider-waite celtic cross.

i don't know the deck, but i try and guess tnat the cross is symbol of balance, the centrum is steady...am i totally wrong?
i don't know tarots very well.

i glanced just now that you are living in ireland;
my father says that his father' family had irish root

maremaria · Nov 29, 2009

buzzurro said:
Actually, that's very interesting to me too, I had never heard this word before!
On the other hand there's a very popular form of divining that's commonly called "reading coffee dregs", and I'm sure there must be a more specific term for that, but hardly anyone knows it.

Quess which is the word .... Yes, cafeomancy

"reading coffee dregs" , I mean cafeomancy

, is very common here in Greece.

maremaria · Nov 29, 2009

neegula said:
hallo maria! nice to meet you! (and to everybody else)

cledonomanzia means: you Ask a question while sitting in your room, than you go out in the "village"; the first few words that you hear are the Answer.
for instance "is it favourable to invite this person for a coffee?" you may hear someone around saying "they brought him to hospital, he was in very bad conditions" or "she is very good at school, such a nice girl". the very first few words give you the idea of what the situation/choice could be.
in some case you can make the same thing looking at signs in nature instead of listening to people words. of course in this case it depends much more on personal interpretation; if i see a snake i'll get a different interpretation than a cristian person may get: for me the snake is regeneration or the power of the Feminine principles. for someone else it can mean danger or sin.
we may "use" this practice also about songs, talks on tv.

someone is sure that cledonomanzia is working just in spontaneous form: for instance, it happens that while driving a thought comes in my mind; while i'm very focused on this thought i may see different signals: two squirrels playing together or a hearse.

personally it happens to me to live cledonomanzia in the second way i wrote about, the spontaneous one, but i don't neglect the first one.

hope my written english was quite clear

to everysoul: have a nice time in this week end!:bows:

Thanks, its interesting.

neegula · Nov 29, 2009

maremaria said:
Quess which is the word .... Yes, cafeomancy

"reading coffee dregs" , I mean cafeomancy , is very common here in Greece.

ehilà! a send a hug to you and to the vibrating land you live!

there's a new girl in town (also - cledonomany and lateral divination)

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