Which I Ching translation are you most likely to pick up for a reading? I ask because I’m putting together a list of translations to include in the ‘multi-translation index’ of a small I Ching glossary I’m putting together. (And also just because it’d be very interesting to learn what you use.)
Since the same Chinese expression can be translated in umpteen different ways, a glossary really needs this kind of index to be of any use. It wouldn’t be so much help to read a discussion of interpretations and applications of ‘having a direction to go’ (Karcher) if you’re puzzling over ‘undertaking something’ (Wilhelm/Baynes). But if I put together an index for each popular translation, you’ll only have to go to the relevant one and click through to the right spot. (‘Click through’ because this’ll be a pdf file, and those can contain links so you get a clickable index.)
So let me know your preferred translation, and if I have or can lay hands on a copy, I’ll try to include it. Thus far I’m definitely including Wilhelm/Baynes (of course), Karcher’s Total I Ching, and the Ritsema/Sabbadini Original I Ching Oracle. Other candidates: Alfred Huang, Richard Rutt, Jack Balkin, and others. I expect to complete the glossary after the I Ching Class has started. It’s included for participants, and I’ll probably put it on sale separately later on.
Mainly I read the Chinese version now, looking at translations to view the readings of people whose Chinese is vastly superior to mine.
Balkin is my favorite translation for helping people, especially for relationship problems.
Zhou Cung Wa (Jou Tsung Wa) Tao of I Ching has been very valuable over the years.
I use Legge, Rutt, Kunst and from time to time a variety of others (Wilhelm, Wei, Wu, Whincup, etc.).
I use Karcher, Karcher, Karcher and Karcher.
I started with the Wilhelm0Baynes with the fine introduction by Jung and loved it for years. Now I only use the Wilhelm-Baynes to show others to illustrate cultural bias and because it is free online and shows up in a casting “machine” that a friend has installed in an IRC chatroom. (PS the casting machine works just as well as any other method I have found. I insisted to the creator that the statistical distribution be correct, and it now is.)
The first Karcher I saw was the Relationship one then in a black velvet cover, “Symbols of Love: I Ching for Lovers, Friends and Relationships”. By the time I bought it the cover was red and there was no box. This one shows the hexagrams that represent bogger movements that indicate a time of transformation and rapid change.
My next was the big one with the Red cover that translates the major words in each hexagram, “I Ching: The Classic Chinese Oracle of Change — The First Complete Translation with Concordance”. Then along with sending one to a friend, ” Ching Pure and Simple. And last but certainly not least, the Taoist I Ching, called “Total I Ching: Myths for Change”. This one points out the mystical elements and working with the spirit/s that each of the trigrams represent.
He’s got ways of elaborating the changes, showing the steps, showing hte influences. I am still so impressed at it.
I started out with Wilhelm, which i still rely on and I’m also using Jack Balkin. However lately I’ve come to rely on Richard Lynn’s Classic of Change: The Wang Bi Interpretation which gives my readings greater clarity. It also improves my understanding of the hexagrams and how the lines relate to each other and the situation.
I tend to get a quick response from Karcher then compare with the more voluminous readings in Huang and Wilhelm but I printed off a translation from a website which I also use and I find relates to modern times and is a different angle.I can’t find where I got it from but it had a picture of a green dragon at the top of the page. I know it has been linked to by other members in one of the forums – sorry. Basically its a feeling which results from reading the texts not the actual texts themselves.
This is just the kind of thing I needed, thanks!
So…
And I should probably include Jou Tsung Wa (I’ve heard other people say good things about him), except that I don’t have a copy. One for the Amazon wish-list.
Sorry, I cannot help you with this one. I am studying mainly in German.
Best regards
Hannelore
I use many translations but the ones I use the most are.
A Dutch one from Han Boering(I think it is a pitty that this one is not translated).
For the rest Language of the lines from Nigel Richmond, of course Wilhelm, The one from LiSe and the Yi Jing from Wu Jing Nuan is also on my desk.
Sometimes I have a look in Karcher – Total I Ching the one from Huang and Richard Johnn Lynn. But only when I want to studie something in depth.
Sorry, no plans on including German or Dutch translations! (Especially since I don’t know any Dutch 😉 .) It’d be a good idea to include LiSe’s, though. Sometimes I think the best work I do with this site is recommending hers 🙂 .
Hi,
I’ve never left a comment before and I’m new to this site, at least in the sense that even though I signed on a few months ago, so far I’ve just sat on the sidelines and read your newsletters.
Using translations is interesting and I’ve found that most translations don’t vary greatly in essence, but can help my perception if they are framed slightly different. But the real translation seems to come in my work to apply the translation to my situation. I think that this is the real challenge and as individuals we can get vastly different meaning personally. So translations strike me as grey like law, and we become the judges that determine the individual cases.
The I-Ching strikes me as having that timeless quality that has lasted through the ages that allows for change.
This is one of the most notable aspects of the I-Ching as I use it, and the most challenging steps in application is, on the one hand leave interpretation as a general frame that applies to my change, rather than the letting the interpretation stand as the change it’s self. In the other hand let the timeless frames create the container where past truths still apply for clarity in understanding the change I am in.
In this way we are anchored in what still applies from the past and unfurled to new changes taking place in the present.
Peace to everyone.
Anna
I’m a true beginner at this, and I’m not sure exactly which “Karcher” everyone is referring to, but I like his “The I Ching Plain and Simple.” I’ve done exactly one reading far, which was spot on; I’m also using “The Complete I Ching’ by Alfred Huang.
Karcher’s Total I Ching, Wilhelms translation and Lynns Wang Bi Yijing here.
But as far as I saw they all are included. Great idea, by the way. Because the phrases translated differently use to cause some troubles to me sometimes… :-).
And what about your translation, Hilary?
Hi Anna!
That puts it beautifully. I find the more I understand about the original ‘container’ of images and ideas, the more clearly and specifically I can apply them to the present moment. So you get this odd situation where knowing more about ancient Chinese cart axles or something can help you understand relationship dynamics, or a programming problem. I think it’s part of really stepping into the imagery and grasping it as a whole, instead of trying to map things onto one another piecemeal.
Lee – there are various I Ching translations by Stephen Karcher; Dahlia mentioned four of them. The Plain and Simple version (oops, I got the title wrong before) strikes me as about the best small-scale book for regular use out there. Total I Ching is his latest published book.
Soshin – I imagine you mean just plain Wilhelm, not Wilhelm/Baynes. Added levels of complexity here! Maybe I should include an editable version of the file so people can add in their own. Or maybe we should build ourselves a translation-wiki. As for my ‘translation’ (joke… blush…), that’s what I’ll naturally tend to use in the main body of the glossary. So no reason to mention it in an index as if it were on a par with Wilhelm and co, thank goodness.
Hi,
This is the first time I’m posting but in addition to Karcher, Karcher, and more Karcher, I go to the Carol Antony/Hannah: The I Ching, Oracle of the Cosmic Way and Deng Ming Dao’s poetry in The Living I Ching.
Looking forward to seeing the final index.
Oh good, I have both of those on the shelf.
Hi Hilary
Well you did ask…lots of interesting replies!
FYI, I started off with Willhelm, moved onto Karcher How to Use the I Ching dues to confusion with Willhelm – and also concerns re Victorian translations. I’ve also acquired Karcher’s Total I Chin and the complete Concordance & would also recommend:
Diana ffarington Hook’s The I Ching and You for general knowledge
R G H Siu The Portable Dragon for it’s absolutely delightful reference to wide-ranging literary quotes that he uses to illuminate the hexagrams
PS I’ve seen references to Bradford’s on-line version…where can I find this? or is this the download offered in the last (or maybe one before) Clarity?
Best regards
Caro
You haven’t seen Brad’s work? You’re in for a treat. Download it all here.
He actually provides (amongst many other good things) a ‘matrix translation’ of parallel text with the Chinese, which of course renders the whole idea of a multi-translation index pretty much redundant.
Brad is too modest to say it, but I think his work is a must for all serious Yi students.
I suggest you download all the files and take them to a Kinkos or other printin place and have it printed. The whole thing is almost a thousand pages. The only caveat is that there are no page numbers but I understand that is Brad’s intention.
Thanks for the warm welcome Hilary. I have a response to your comment back to me. You said “I find the more I understand about the original ‘container’ of images and ideas, the more clearly and specifically I can apply them to the present moment.” One thing about the original container that I think presents both a challenge and is the actual strength of the I-Ching is that the deepest origins of the I-Ching lie in the place of non-manifestation, the deepest creative.
Here we can draw up that mysterious psychic energy for creation and in that sense we are all in the time of the original. We become the new authors of the time for changes that are happening through our creation of them. It is wonderful to rely on the hard work of past creators but the universe must go on and so human creation must also. I sense in you Hilary a strong creative force and I encourage you to believe in your ability to receive and know the correct meaning in your readings, they actually may become the original container that some future humans will rely on. In fact I think you have already created a pretty amazing container, and an incomparable resource for reference with this web site, I am thankful for your hard work. I sense I may not have a better place for translation than that.
Take care everyone.
Anna
I started with Master Huang’s ‘The Complete I Ching”, which is very good and “Complete” as advertised but also a little complex and confusing for a beginner. That’s how I found Hilary’s Clarity (also “Clear” as advertised) site, which actually gives me the information and inspiration to properly consult (converse with)the the I Ching and understand the answers. Have I told you lately how grateful I am? Also, I borrowed Stephen K.’s “How to use the I Ching” and I liked it very much. It was complementary with “the Total ..” and helpful to me in understanding some of the more evolved sections of Master Huang’s book. I especially liked the parts where the Decision would say “The Way is open” or “The Way is closed”. So I am planning on buying “How to Use the I Ching”, as well.
Thank you 🙂
You’ll find ‘I Ching Plain and Simple’ is actually a re-publication of ‘How to Use the I Ching’, which is now out of print. So you’ll be OK with either.
Hi: I use Sarah Dening, Karcher’s How to Use the I Ching, Wilhelm, R. L. Wing, and R.G.H. Siu’s Portable Dragon. I have several other translations, but tend to go with the ones that seem most accessible. I love the Wilhelm, and strongly differ with those who brand it culturally biased, as if pronouns or lack of them could invalidate a great work. Of course I’m 60, so probably out of it in terms of contemporary culture.
For everyday use”The I Ching palin & simple”-Karcher.Then,for the symbolic meanings”The Tao of divination-JouTSUNGWa.For really philosophical/alchemical dephtTheTaoist I Ching”Thomas Cleary and last but not least The total I Ching”by Karcher for an in depht alegorical and practical exhaustive interpretation.
I’ve come to choose a translation depending on the issue I’m asking about. Generally, I use Karcher’s How to Use the I Ching for most readings, but I always turn to Balkin for business and practical matters. I think Balkin has updated the best of Wilhelm and tossed out the annoying aspects. It is a brilliant work. (Does he know that his out-of-print work is frequently talked about on this site?) The Total I Ching offers the most information about the hexagrams themselves and it also gives a more mythic take on the lines, which can be helpful for more spiritual changes. Brad’s and Ewald’s on-line translations are both great in an all-round way. Then, of course, there’s the hex search for real life experiences, Hilary’s informative blog, and the “Learn” section. In the end, if I need to reconcile different interpretations, I go to both Karcher’s concordance and Hilary’s translation.
Whether you’re serious about it or not, I love the wiki idea! Wouldn’t it be great if everyone was contributing to that? It would be a lot like the memorizing threads over in “Exploring Divination,” but without having to wade through the jokes and conversations (which are fun, of course, but sometimes very slooooow to get past when trying to research a line!).
I first used the Wilhelm/Baynes years ago and still do. I used to use that in conjunction with Legge, because I enjoy Legge’s notes in many cases. I got Carol K. Anthony’s earlier version and now do use the Anthony/Moog (which I did consistently all through 2004). [I am working with their “Healing Yourself the Cosmic Way – in working with my Lyme Disease]. Later I got the Hua-Ching Ni version. I still use that because I appreciate not necessarily the translation, but his “intergral Way” commentary on the Hexagrams and lines and his sort of prose-poems after each hexagram. Now I very much like the Lynn/Wang Pi translation – Wang’s commentry and the great notes. I usually begin all my sessions with the Ritsema/Sabbadini, and refer then to Karcher, “Total I Ching”. I also appreciate the Jungian perspective of the Sarah Denning version. Here are some others I also use now. Bard Hatcher is wonderful. John Blofeld I Ching. Sasm Reifler I Ching. One of my most enjoyable comparisons it to read the hexagrams and lines from all three of Cleary’s: I start with The Taoist I Ching, then follow that with The Cheng Yi (Tao of Organization, and finally the Buddhist I Ching. There are others two, such as Jack Balkin and Alfred Huang. FInally, one I am still working on understanding is Frits Blok: The I Ching. His uses the idea of five possible nuclear hexagrams (as in Ponce) for this study – quite interesting.
Glen.
Thank you for the responses! I’m relieved to see I already own most of these, especially those that are much-used. Oh, except for Jou Tsung Hwa… one to get, by the sound of it.
I like Cleary’s Buddhist I Ching for name of hex, judgement, image and lines for starters. I’ll then look at one or more of the Karcher books, Everyday I China, and Huang. I also carry with me in my backpack a condensed Wilhelm-Baynes I put together in a plastic comb binder (just has judgement, image, and lines. I have a couple of others I’ve recently purchased, but haven’t really gotten to know them too well.
mm – I shouldn’t forget Cleary.
My copy of Tsung Hwa Jou just arrived. It’s going to take a while to wrap my head round this one.
I usually read one to 3 of my books and I’ll list them, but just for information in general, I will look at many of my I Ching interpreations if I have difficulty wiht an answer or a line because sometimes many different translations or intepretations will explain one little thing I hadn’t thought of and help me pout it together.As someone else said , depending on the question and issue may determine which one(s) I will look to as well.
OK—I didn’t have difficulty with Wilhem’s- I’ve always liked it, I actually found Stephen Karcher’s “I Ching” much less helpful.Although nowI’ve realized many yrs later, that his terminology is different than I initally understood.I did like S.Karcher’s and Rudolph Ritsema’s “First Complete Translation with Concordance” much better, but even that I’ve only played with as in free associating, I don’t use it often.
I really like Carol Anthony’s Guide to the I Ching.
Now before I mention the next few, I want to say–that sometimes looking at a description and interpretation from a different standpoint entirely is useful and helpful.
In other words, I mean to say that instead of using an I Ching which confine’s it’s focus to work and decision -making for *that* purpose alone, I find it helpful to use such a one for other issues too–but of course not by itself.
I don’t generally like the ones which focus only on love/relationships or work or organization matters etc.–but!
I learned a *lot* from reading a couple of them, and still do utilize Cleary’s “The Tao of Organization”–and again–not only for issues related to work or a group–(although as we know, a lot of situations with people or other matters can be “organization”-related anyway if you know what I mean). 🙂
Getting back to reading “specialized” I Ching books, and whether they are at all worth looking into–they are, and they are not—
For instance I never look at ‘The I Ching of Love’ by Guy Damian Knight anymore at all, but when I read it quite a bit about 18 yrs ago, what I gathered there, I still utilize when I’m interpeting something today..it enters into the picture anyway, though I don’t like the book much.
Does that make sense?
Funny, about 38(?) years ago, I bought my first I Ching,it was John Blofeld’s–I saw that some folks here really like it. And that’s natural as we’re all different-but it still comes as a surprise to me.
I don’t really–he didn’t even believe in the book himself and was not interested in the same way most of us are–he simply translated it.
I hardly look at it now, I use it very rarely for the fact that he has an interesting calendar piece in the end pages useful for finding when something is likely to happen.
It’s a nice memory for me, I had that one about 3 yrs almost before a friend of mine told me I had to have the “real” book, 😉 and helped me buy the Wilhelm/Baynes translation.
(I was 18, it was 1972,it cost $9 and and could’nt completely afford it on my tiny wages of 1.75 an hour then).
I still have her inscription on the front page, though sadly the front cover is long gone.
So, as you can tell, I kept every one of every I Ching I ever bought 🙂
I neglected to mention above when saying I *have* learned something from the “specialty” type interpretations–the same author as the I Ching of Love, also wrote “The I Ching of Business and Decision-making”.
Oddly this one is much better and I still look at it sometimes.
As I say–I have used it to see how it would ‘add-up’ in divining what I asked or a friend asked about many other matters, including relationships.
Try it–it’s an interesting exercise.
I got the impression from his introduction that Blofeld is completely convinced that the I Ching works as an oracle. Legge’s the one who’s quite sure that such stuff is superstitious nonsense. (I think there’s something to be said for translations written by people with no interest whatsoever in divination. They don’t expect the text to make sense, necessarily – think of Richard Rutt! – but nor do they have preconceived ideas about what it ought to say.)
I’m leery of ‘I Ching for…’ books, as it’s already ‘for’ everything. But I can see it would be interesting to try applying them on subjects beyond their intention – seeing your ‘business and decision making’ through a lens of ‘love and relationships’ or vice versa. I do have the Cleary/ Cheng Yi book – I should get it off the shelf more. Thanks for the suggestion.
rather like wilhelm, despite the confucian overlay, the metaphorical poetry, the images, and i guess its what i’m used to reading that one since i was 19, 52 now, bit like on the mountain, in total stillness, waiting for the gradual development. the wild geese drawing near to the branches.
karcher i like but i’m unfamiliar with his names of the hexagrams, new age i ching, hazel good for instant english answers, the buddhist i ching and dynamic one great for human dynamics in life situations.
some months i look in at the changes every day, ask question after question like a detective interrogating his own mind, trying to find the hidden clue, what stirs beneath.
other times, i don’t look at the yi for months, or go off into the bhagavad gita, or some other eastern philosophy.
i think the javascript i ching is great for instant answers, and also the i ching square, rabe has a good perspective on the english translations.
all up, if i had to go to the moon tomorrow, its one book i would have to take. the yi.
Hiulary, I’m not arguing :-)I know about Legge too, but that was what I leanre dabout Blofeld.But it’s all good.I was tlaking more anyway about how I felt and even while there is some useful stuff in his book, I don’t feel so comfortable with it for soem reason.
Yes–that’s exactly what I meant–I don’t like I Ching for__ books either but what I do like is seeing how the different “subjects” apply.
Think about a relationship you’re conflicted about.
I was very much so some yrs ago now, and I asked a question about a close male friend and I who were becoming romantically involved -and -receiving #38–(can’t remember the lines offhand now) but in the Business and Decision Making there were Topics–as in: start-up in business, feedback, management, advertising, mergers. etc.
And I never forgt that it said something about how this merger was not supposed to be–that there was undeniable atraction between the opposites and some new things would be learned maybe even successful, but not good for long term.
LOL.
That was basically what happened too.
I’ve never really used Blofeld, though he’s on the shelf somewhere. I seem to remember taking a liking to him after reading his introduction.
Anyway, I like your idea of re-applying ‘I Ching for…’ books. I’m going to take the Tao of Organization off the shelf (not that it’s really an ‘I Ching for…’, but it’s the nearest I’ve got) and see how it works out for analysing inner dynamics as well as outer.
Hi I’m Jon,
I’m new to this site and normally don’t blogïŠ.
However I like the comments here and I may find some help in the brains trust present.
To put things in perspective with some back ground, I’m an avid user of Wang Bi translations of I Chang by Richard J Lynn’s. I consider Lynn’s the most important indispensable book on I Chang on my book shelf. (How ever I have had no time to compare or use other works that are available).
As I understand it, in the proper use or consultation of I Chang. One does not ask a question for an answer. You just develop a hexagram based at the moment of time (in my case with 3 coins X 6) to discover what is occurring around me.
This consultation for information I need as I endeavour to create and lead projects of significants forward around obstacles that confront me.
The reason I turn to Lynn’s work is simply I have no one to consult with on complex high risk business and personal matters that I have put in motion (you only live once).
This is the handicap I find I work with when one leads the development of what some would consider extreme risk business and life projects, that most people say can’t be done.
It’s important for me to obtain a purity of information, that is uncontaminated by other peoples positive or negative life experience and phobias.
This leaves me quite alone in dealing with the matters at hand that have been generated by me for the most part moving forward from thought into implementation and there for risk.
In my life (I’m 62) I have founded a number of companies, none of it was easy. I found there was no way for me to get a constructive opinion on matters confronting me. So I have used Lynn’s book extensively since its publication. I found in my hands in its use unnerving correct for the moment in time I called up a Hexagram.
As it identified the events happing around me and my position in it and the action I should take or not.
The problems I have some times experienced are my reading of the yang and yin old lines and judgments I question are they correct?
To help me clarify my understanding I discovered not long ago A Guide to I Ching by Carol Anthony that at times I find is helpful and at times confusing.
As an example, say you draw hexagram 23 in Lynn’s translations it’s called Bo (peeling) the translated explanations can be unnerving especially if one draws the old lines. That change into and new Hexagram.
However if you read Carol Anthony take on Hexagram 23 she calls it Po/(Splitting apart) she ends up with a very different spin on this hexagram 23.
I know her work is a reference on the translation and writings of I Ching by Wilhelm & King Wen and his son and not Richard Lynn’s.
If you compare the hexagram 23, and read as old lines, 2nd and 3rd Yin of Lynn’s translations and Carols’ guide. There seems to be a radical difference in the meanings of these yin lines? Does any one care to comment my take on this?
That leaves me wondering and wishing for a guild on Lynn’s translations of I Chang Does any one know if there is one?
Thank you all, for your input,
Jon
Hi Jon,
This is certainly one way of consulting the I Ching, but by no means the only ‘proper’ one. Asking a carefully-thought-out question often works best.
There are a few ‘layers’ of I Ching books you should be aware of:
The closer you can get to the words of the original, the more reliable a foundation you have to build your own understanding. The original work is very concise, and anyone who writes about it must needs build up a personal edifice of what they think it’s trying to say. Sometimes that’ll help you with your own – sometimes it won’t. The important thing is to keep going back to what the I Ching itself says, and your personal response to its words.
Sorry to say I don’t believe anyone has written a ‘guide’ in response to the Lynn translation.
Hello Hilary,
Thank you for your input, its helpful. Where would I go to extract the meaning below the layer of Wang Bi in an English translation?
One other question I often ponder on, is how mush time and space to allow between the reading of a Hexagram, eg on both old and new line Hexigrams? Before you do another reading?
In the Lynn book you actually have a complete translation of the Yijing, along with Wang Bi’s commentaries, and all marked out clearly. It’s an excellent book – not designed to make life easier for the modern diviner, but scholarly and complete. There’s a great deal to be said for getting to know the I Ching this way.
If you want a second source, have a look at the recommended I Ching books page here.
As for how long to leave between readings… there is no rule. If there were one, it might be, ‘Until you’ve understood the previous reading.’