Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
@All: I am confused because I can`t edit my starting post. At some of my posts there is a edit button and at some not Is it a bug? Or is it just allowed to edit posts only one time or so? I will try to help myself by just writing a completely new post. Maybe some Moderators can help?
I think the relatives are normally called the 6 relatives, one per line.
Alex Chiu doesnt mention the celestial figures or heavenly creatures but they are included as ' The 6 colours ' ( page 405 the book ) green red yellow grey white black.They are always spread across the lines in that sequence.If the heavenly stem of the day is wood the first line is green.If the day stem is fire the first line is red, and so on as described in the book.They are not overly important, just complementary indicators.
Update of the starting post
Hi all,
as some of you already know I`m dealing with an ancient and well guarded divination technique called Wen Wang Gua 文王卦also known as Liu Yao Yi Gua 六爻易卦, Na Jia and as Six Line method or method of Six Lines in english since a while.
I will write an explanation thread about this theme, when I will find the time for it, so that you all can follow the topic soon. But for the moment I am most interested into a few but very important questions concerning the rules of Wen Wang Gua so this thread is for those who knows already the rules or at least parts of it and could help to find out all original rules.
There seem to be differences concerning the rules of Wen Wang Gua. Jack Chiu (author: The Secret Of Wen Wang Gua) often use the phrase "it is said that..", "some Wen Wang Gua practioners think...", "it is written..." and so on. Alex Chiu (superiching.com) also uses a lot of rules and it is not for sure that they are all original. Some shall be invented from himself and so I will try to find out here (by time) all original rules of Wen Wang Gua and I start giving my input with the rules which are sure for me.
1.Bound and Strike called by Alex Chiu is existing (of course) and it is called Conjunction and Opposition at the book of Jack Chiu.
Update
1a.Active/Inactive Line
Yvonne:
First of all one has to look at the hexagram for active and/or inactive lines. The rules for active and inactive lines are different and complicated. Quiet Lines/Inactive Lines can become active/ Aggressive Inactive under certain circumstances and Moving Lines/Active Lines can become useless/inactive under certain circumstances. Often (as long as the Line is healthy and/or strong) it is only a temporary condition and can be changed again under further circumstances, this makes Wen Wang Gua a bit complicated and very complex. Further below I started to collect this certain „circumstances“.
2."The Day Branch is the Master of the six lines" is written at "The Gold Yarrows" the ancient rule book of Wen Wang Gua and Alex Chiu says the same. Jack Chiu used this quote at his book so we can assume this is also correct.
Update
Yvonne:
This means that the Day Branch is more important than the Month Branch. For example: Only the Day Branch can cause a quiet line to become an Active Line (Aggressiv Inactive) by striking. The Month Branch can`t do this (Alex Chiu).
3.Element Combinations (Water, Fire, Earth, Wood combinations) also exist. Alex Chiu called them Element Combos and Jack Chiu calls them Trine. (To be continued later)
4.Struck loose called by Alex Chiu is also original. Jack Chiu calls it the Aggressive Inactive caused by opposition if a quiet line is struck by the date.
Update
Alex Chiu:
4a: Struck: A quiet line becomes active when it is struck by the day branch.
4b: Loose: An active/moving line becomes a loose line when is struck by the Day Branch, it becomes useless because of the strike of the Day Branch.
Jack Chiu (literally):
4a: If an inactive line is however being opposite of the Day Branch, it becomes an Aggressive Inactive and will have the ability to impose vitalization and devitalization to the other lines. Since it is caused by Opposition, the Aggressive Inactive will not have any ability of Opposition and Conjunction.
4b: If an Active Line is being the Opposite of the Day Branch, it will lose it`s ability to vitalize and devitalize.
5.Quiet/Inactive Line: "An Inactive Line will become somewhat active when it is in conjunction with the day branch" is written at Jack Chiu`s book and Alex Chui says the same so we also can feel secure in this point.
Update
Alex Chiu (literally):
5a: When the date bounds to a quiet line, the quiet line will become active when a future year, month or date strikes the bondage open.
Jack Chiu (literally):
5a: The Inactive Line will become Aggressive Inactive when it is being the Opposite of the Day Branch, or if conjunct (bound) by the Day Branch. I will then have ability to impose the effects of Vitalization and Devitalization onto the other lines.
6. Advance and Retreat:
Update
Alex Chiu:
6a: Alex Chiu explained it but I can`t write down all this so please read the explanation of Jack Chiu.
Jack Chiu (literally):
6a: Progression (Advance): People may have different interpretations about Progression, but generally it refers to when an Active Line changes into its next Earthly Branch of the same Wu-xing property. For example From Yin to Mao, Chen to Wei …..(and so on.)
Others believe that Progression only relates to those of the properties of Earth, Wood and Metal. As such, there is no Progression from Chen to Wei, Si to Wu, Xu to Chou and Hai to Zi. This is due to the reason that they are in different sides of the Taj-ji Yin-Yang Diagram.
Progression is having the effect which is being doubled in strength. It is again not exactly a quantitative measure.
6b: Regression (Retreat): It is similar to Progression but just it goes reverse direction. When an Active Line changes into it`s previous Earthly Branch of the same Wu-xing property, it is called Regression. For example, from Mao to Yin, Chou to Xu.... (and so on).
Again, of the same token as in Progression, other people believe Regression is also related to those of the properties of Earth, Wood, and Metal only.
Regression is having the effect which is being reduced in half strength. Again, it is not exactly a quantitativ measure.
Yvonne: You see there is still much to talk about. That`s why I openend up the thread, maybe all this unclear or not sure points can be cleared by time.
7.The concept of empty dates is also original and makes sense if one thinks about that there are only 10 heavenly stems but 12 earthly branches. Alex Chiu calls them empty dates and the line with the empty element is called empty. Jack Chiu calls it neutralized line. (To be continued later)
8. "Kills back at itself" and „Produce back at itself“ called by Alex Chiu is also original and Jack Chiu calls Kill back at itself: "Returning Devitalization". But this is only possible at an active (moving) line.
Update
Alex Chiu:
8a: He explained it with „helper star“ and „enemy star“. So we are talking about the 5 Stars (5 Relatives). If an active line is changing into his „enemy star“ for example Brother/Sibling (B Star) changes into Officer (R Star) then the changed line Officer (R Star) can kill/devitalize the originating line Brother/Sibling (B Star). This is called: Killed back at itself.
8b: „Produce back at itself“ is the same but with the „helper star“. For example: If an active Officer (R Star) is turning into Asset (G Star) the Asset can produce back the Officer line.
Jack Chiu (literally):
8a: The Originating Active Line will lose its ability to impose effects onto any other Lines when it is being devitalized by its Changed Line. It is known as Returning Devitalization (kills back at itself according Alex Chiu).
The remedy is either (1) the Originating Active Line is being vitalized by the Day Branch, (2) the Changed Line is being devitalized by the Day Branch, or (3) the Originating Active Line is being vitalized by its invisible Line if there is any.
8b: The Changed Line will have the ability to impose all of the four effects, Vitalization, Devitalization, Opposition, and Conjunction onto its Originating Active Line or Dong-Yao.
Yvonne: This is the same what Alex Chiu means with „kill back at itself“ and „produce back“ just in other words.
Jack Chiu has some details about Returning Opposition for us:
Jack Chiu (literally)
Returning Opposition: The Originating Active Line will lose its ability to impose effects onto any other Lines when it is being Opposite of it`s own Changed Line. It is known as Returning Opposition or Hui-Tou-Chong. The Originating Active Line can only restore its effects when it is being conjunct with the Day Branch. The effects of the Day Branch is considered as external to the hexagram.
9.Double Appointed by Alex Chiu is not described at the book of Jack Chiu but the words about it from Alex Chiu makes sense for me. So: If someone knows definitely, please help. (To be continued later)
10.Six Strike and Six Match by Alex Chiu is also not described at the book of Jack Chiu but it seems to be original because Long Yi used "Six Conflict" as the name for a certain hexagram so I suppose this is also original. (To be continued later)
11. Links called by Alex Chiu are also not mentioned at the book of Jack Chiu and so this is a huge puzzle for me still. I don`t understand this link philosophy, but maybe I am just to stupid,lol. I will go on reading and hopefully understand soon. (To be continued if I will have understood it ;-))
12.Five Relatives called by Jack Chiu and called 5 Stars by Alex Chiu is the same and described as the same by both authors.
Update
Alex Chiu:
1. P Star
2. B Star
3. K Star
4. G Star
5. R Star
Jack Chiu:
1. Parent
2. Sibling
3. Child
4. Asset
6. Officer
Other:
1. Parent
2. Brother
3. Children/Descendant
4. Woman/Wealth
5. Officer/Ghost
Details:
Peterg said:
Yvonne: Actually Jack Chiu also called them 6 Relatives (not 5 Relatives) and he explained the sixth relative would be ourselve if we include it.
Jack Chiu (literally): Six Relatives is in fact to humanize the interactions among Wu-xing (5 Elements). They are namely the Parent (P) or Fu-Mu, the Sibling (S) or Xiong-Di, the Child (C) or Zi-Sun, the Asset (A) or Qi-Cai, and the Officer (O) or Guan-Gui. There are only five of them, but it would become six if we include ourselves.
(to be continued later)
13. Six Celestial Figures called by Jack Chiu is completely missing at the material (see update) of Alex Chiu but it is part of original Wen Wang Gua. At the book of Jack Chiu you will find a table where you can find out how to mount the Six Celestial Figures to the lines. They gives you additional insights.
Update
Peterg helps us out with telling us about the six colours on the website of Alex Chiu it is:
Jack Chiu:
1. Azure Dragon
2. Vermillion Bird
3. Curved Array
4. Flying Serpent
5. White Tiger
6. Murky Warrior
(To be continued later)
14. Hidden Element/Hiders/Invisible: Seems to be identic at the material of Alex Chiu and Jack Chiu but I have to prove this entirely. (To be continued later)
15. Traps by Alex Chiu. I first have to prove this before saying something about it.
Update
I proved this in the meantime and I only found this rule at the material of Alex Chiu and it says:
Alex Chiu (literally):
e (Si) and y (Yin) form a trap.
For example: The self line P e (Parent Si) moves into R y (Officer Yin) which produces back at itself. So the self line formed a trap.
Trapping means they hurt each other. The element e (Si) and y (Yin) trapping each other is like man and wife fighting. If the appointed is weak and is also trapped, the appointed is in total trouble. For more than 20 years of I – Ching experiance, Wild Crane can only bring up one or two signs which can serve as examples concerning trapping.
Yvonne: I guess that means, that it happen very seldom and so this is probably not one of the most important rules but good to know.
16.Gua strikes back by Alex Chiu. I haven`t read this chapter until now, but Jack Chiu doesn`t meantion it. (To be continued later)
17. Subject and Object Line (Jack Chiu), S (Self) and U (Opponent) Line (Alex Chiu).
(To be continued later)
Update
Attention: This post will be long time work in progress, because it is a huge challenge to find, write down and compare all possible Wen Wang Gua rules to each other. I will edit this from time to time. I will add content, change content (if wrong or not complete or if I found a better explanation), I will try to add the most important Chinese terms in Pinyin and Chinese too by time and I need help for this project.
I hope that everybody who knows better or more or certain details will join to help to complete this list one sunny day. When it will be finished (hopefully), it will be a great help for each Wen Wang Gua student and so it makes a lot of sense to start the „project“ at least.
So: This is wip and it is just for starting the discussion and the exchange of knowledge and experiances. Please join if you know something which is needed here.
Best wishes Yvonne
I am currently writing a book about summarizing all of Alex Chius book superiching. I will be finished soon, but if you would like to help speed up my work, I could take on an apprentice if your willing. By working together, we can get this done faster than separately.
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).