Hi everyone,

This is my first post here and I am fairly new to the I Ching. Hope someone can provide me with some guidance.

I had asked the I Ching several questions regarding my relationship with a particular person (say 'V') that I have a crush on. The initial questions sounded optimistic but as I went on further, the answers were getting worse and even contradicting. Okay, I had made the mistake of asking similar questions and I know that this was wrong.

Here are the questions:

1) What is V's significance in my life?
Answer:
Hexagram 3 with changing line 6
--> Hexagram 42

The first hex told me that there is difficulty in the beginning but if I am sincere, things will change for the better. Sounds optimistic. The changing hex advised me to increase my 'investment' to reach my goal as long as I don't overdo. Sounds even better.

So I went on with the following question.

2) What are V's feelings towards me?
Answer: Hex 16 with changing line 4
--> Hex 2

Both sounded fairly good. However, as I tried to probe further (probably to give myself more assurance), the hexagrams I received were getting worse. I know I will have to knock my head for asking the following questions.

3) How long must I wait for V to accept me as a lover?
Answer: Hex 56 with changing line 9
--> Hex 62

Getting worse now....I got scared and asked a the following question.

4) What are the possiblities of V accepting me as a lover?
Answer: Hex 42 with changling lines 1 and 5
--> Hex 23

The first hexagram sound optimistic but the second one was bad and contradicted the first hexagram and previously asked questions. Why was this so?

I went on to with two more questions....

5) What can I expect from this relationship with V?
Answer: Unchanging Hex 53

Optimistic despite some difficulties.

6) What can I do to ensure a happy relationship with V?
Answer: Hex 51 with changing line 2
--> Hex 54

Doesn't sound very good to me.

7) What can be done to have an everlasting loving relationship with V?
Answer: Unchanging Hex 8

This one sounded optimistic again.


I know that I deserved a slap for bugging the I Ching with so many questions but it had happened.

From my opinion, one common essence of these answers is for me to be patient and sincere.

So my questions are:

Why did I receive contradicting answers to my seemingly identical (or rhetorical) questions?

Were the contradicting answers some form of punishment for asking so many questions?

Which ones should I follow? The first few ones?


Thanks and apologies for reading this long post. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Hi Lexxmexx

Just in case the comment could be useful
______________________________________________
A)
What I had learn is: Yi Jing has a propper order. Goes from general to concrete. So, our dialogue with Yi Jing should follow that order.

Example:
1.- General Diagnosis of the relationship between X and I (the aswer shows the general situation of the relationship, including causes and calendaric time of evolution)
2.- Qualification of my position within the relationship (the answer shows how you are facing the relationship.. talks to you... are you in good position? in week position?, acting wise? feeling good?)
3.- Qualification of X position within the relationship (the answer talks about X facing a relationship with you)
4.- What should I do related to the relationship between X and I? (before asking how getting an everlasting love relationship, one have to be sure that searching for that is fair and correct)
5.- Please give me an image of the future situation of the relationship between X and I in the next "n" months
__________________________________________

Anyway, a few ideas of your questions

1.- Answer one, in the way I see, doesn't talks about an objective significance, but a subjective significance. It is the significance you are giving to V right now.
So, seems to me that you think in V as someone who can help you to solve the dificulties in your life and make your life richiest.
Line 6.. is bad. One way to understand: seems like you think you couldn't improve your life without V's help. That's not good.

2.- Second answer: V is friendly, enthusiasmic and sympathic to you. V is self-confidence, and that allows V aproach you friendly as helper. v wants be a fellow helper. Even a little maternal to you.

3.- How long I must wait: well, a pilgrim doesn't wait too long in one place. Otherwise, the pilgrim ends crying, like a bird with the neckegg burned.

4.- 42==> 23. Increes DEPENDS on inner sincerity (line 5) and Heaven's impulse (line 1). You must examinate if that is your case wishing V accept you as lover. In order to do it, you need to split emotional attachment, take a step back and get some distance to see objectively (23)

5.- What can you expect?. First, notice that not every relationship is a romantic relationship. In questions 3, 4 and 7 you especificly asked about romantic relationship.. but in questions 5 and 6 you didn't. 53 talks about a gentle and slow development. Better to be firm basis than spoil the relationship with unwise rushes.

6.- Answer 6: don't lose inner calm (judgment), be ready to have some loses (your romantic intentions?), don't try to avoid them (line 2). Understand that you goal is something beyond your control (54)

7.- Everlasting love relationship... mmm hex 8 is friendly relationship, not romantic relationship.


In the way I can understand, there is no contradiction in the answers... all of them point at the same conclusion: is a good FRIENDLY relationship, but don't have high expectatives about romantic partnership.

Sorry tell you this conclusion; hope to be wrong.

Best wishes

Hi Jesed,

Thanks for your reply.

Regarding your interpretation on my first two questions, it seems like the situation is opposite to what you had described. I am the one who is offering help and being friendly....and V doesn't seem to reciprocate much, or at least I don't sense anything much. Could V's help be something like trying to fulfill my wish for a romantic relationship.

Background: V is currently seeing someone but doesn't seem to be very happy. V knows very well of my intentions and had not rejected me in any way.

Jesed said~{#:~}[br]4.- 42==> 23. Increes DEPENDS on inner sincerity (line 5) and Heaven's impulse (line 1). You must examinate if that is your case wishing V accept you as lover. In order to do it, you need to split emotional attachment, take a step back and get some distance to see objectively (23)

Click to expand...

Yes, I had thought about this and is very firm that I wish V to accept me as lover. So what does mean for me?

No offence here but I really wish that the outcome will not be what you had interpreted.

Thanks again for your help.

Hi Lexxmexx

I'll try to express myself better.

Answer 1: I'm not saying that V is someone helping you in real life (that would be an objective sentence).
I'm saying that you WANT that V be someone helping you ("It is the significance you are giving to V right now")

Answer 2: "V is friendly, enthusiasmic and sympathic to you". I mean: he feels friendship for you, but not having romantic feelings for you.


Best wishes

Hi Lexxmexx

Welcome aboard.
I don't believe you deserve a slap for bugging the I Ching! It's very hard not to, when you want acknowledgement so much. But, on the other hand, it doesn't do any good either. I think it's better to stick at the one question. More questions tend to increase ones insecurity, rather than relieving it.
I'm afraid I agree with Jesed: this doesn't sound like a succesfull love-relationship. The first one you got is very significant to me: I think it indicates breaking up, and how it's wise afterwards to move on and let bygones be bygones (and eventually "increase" 42 will set in again). This is a sad line, the tears can be quite literal. Since your question was what significance V has in your life, it might be: to show that after break-up, life goes on. I have a feeling that the other hexs indicate that although friendship is all that's available, this won't work for you, resulting in a break-up.
In response to your question on how long you must wait for V to accept you as a lover, I think 56.6 indicates that it's not going to happen. You build your nest (feeling of safety, belonging, safe home situation etc.) on uncertain grounds. It burns. Resulting in 62, a time of mourning.
There is something you can do, but it's not happy news. If you take your loss now (you might discuss your ideas with her openly and find out how she feels), hex.3.6 will set in, you can cry over it and move on to 42. But not with her, I'm afraid.

Good luck. I hope things turn out differently!

Femke

As someone who has made this mistake many times, and been smacked in the head for it by some of the people here, let me offer this advice. Dont ask so many questions. I know its hard when you are trying to get a handle on the situation, but you will only end up confusing yourself. For one thing, the answers are not always about what you think, and when you are inexperienced, as you and I both are, you can see things that arent there. Sometimes its wishful thinking, sometimes the translation you use, and sometimes its that the answer does not answer the question you think you asked. The best way to get the best answer is to ask something like what you should do or how you should approach, meditate on the answer for a few days, look up as many translations as you can find, check the clarity archives for similar results and then discuss it here if you need to. One thing I have learned about the Yi and relationships, it is not a fortune teller. It will tell you the best way to proceed, but there are no guarantees. Many times it will tell you about you or give an overview of the situation. And it times, it will get you where you need to be, not where you want to be. Its a tough rule to follow, and I break it all the time, but everytime I do, I find the answers dont make sense and any comfort I get is shortlived because the results turn out to be inaccurate. The Yi will tell you the truth, no more, no less, which is not always comforting or reassuring. Good luck

My rule is the more questions i ask about a potential relationship the less chance it has of ever coming to fruition. If I'm asking the Yi means I'm not asking them, if I'm not asking them why not ? Why can't I speak to them (the love interest)If I can't even speak to them it doesn't bode well for a relationship does it ?

This is not to say you won't have a relationship with V. No one can tell you that but V (I read somewhere 3,6 means on no account give up)

D'you know I even think asking the Yi over and over could actually jeopardize ones chances. This is because you start to build up your own picture of what they think and feel, you believe the Yi confirms it and all the time you may be way off base. You've tied yourself up in all sorts of knots, without ever even consulting the one who for sure knows the answer - the love object him/her self. Never let the love object slip away without telling them how you feel and giving them the opportunity to tell you how they feel.

Picture this scenario.. you meet V aged 90 and V says "I always wanted to be your lover". You gasp
in reply that you did also. S/he then asks why you never spoke about it ? You reply "The Yi Jing told me not to"

Hi everyone,

I really appreciate that so many of you had offered your guidance.

To Jesed and Femke, thanks for clarifying. The truth is certainly painful to accept. I certainly hope that things will turn out differently and for the better.....

To Seeker, yes, you were right. I just realized from another posting that we cannot use the I Ching to tell the future. The hexagrams derived are actually the mental state that we are having at the moment and they advise on how we should cope with it. Asking questions on how to approach the situation is certainly better than trying to know the outcome. Getting undesired hexagrams for inexperienced people like me will only serve to reinforce our doubts, and depressions and harsh actions will only cause us to work towards that unwanted outcome. This is what I had learnt from Dr Wayne Dyer's books - one create one's own destiny.

To Void, I felt the same way as you did regarding asking too many questions. V had once told me that I will have a chance, just that it is not the right timing yet. I will have to remind myself that this is a book of Changes, the outcomes predicted are not casted in stone and are subjected to transition over time. Your advice really showed me that there will be light at the end of the tunnel :-D

Thank you all very much!!!

I've asked two more questions today and received the following hexagrams.

What does V want this relationship (with me) to evolve into?
Answer: 32.5 --> 28

I don't know if this is really referring to V's intentions and if the 'marriage' is referring to me.


What can I do to strengthen this relationship with V?
Answer: 59.1.3 --> 9

What I derived from these is that I am currently feeling frustrated with my present situation where V is not reciprocating to me. I need to change this state of mind and calm myself down before I can proceed further. Hex 9 tells me that I cannot take any significant action now and I must be patient and tolerant until the time is right.

Am I right?

Hi

"I just realized from another posting that we cannot use the I Ching to tell the future"

I must say that I disagree: Yi Jing is very useful to tell future effects of present situation.

If we cannot use Yi Jing to tell the future:
a) How I did publicly predict in March 2005 that Catholic Pope JPII would die before April 6 of 2005? (he died April 2, 2005) http://www.e-ching.com/viewtopic.php?t=1534

b) How I did publicly predict in October 17, 2005: if the legislative election in Venezuela is not delay, the political tension would make the election end in pitfall? (as it did in december 4, with oposition withdrawing from the election)
http://www.e-ching.com/viewtopic.php?t=2607

c) How I did publicly predict in August 26, 2005 that Donjuan's relationship would break-up before a year? (As it happened in September 6, 2005) http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/92/5061.html?1126126444

If someone like me, not even an Adept yet (in Yi Jing's terminology for stages of knowing Yi Jing) can achieve it, imagine what can achieve the more development ones.

Best wishes

Hi Jesed,

I hope you are not irritated by my queries

You have a point there. The I Ching can tell us what might happen in the future given this present situation. But since this is about changes, let's say if we do follow the I Ching's advice or change something now, can this affect and change the future outcome that was previously predicted?

Can you help me decipher what my two questions mean?

Thanks again.

Hi Lexxmexx

Of course I'm not irritated by your queries.

You are right... Yi Jing can tell expected tendences of development... but there is no written fate.

The advice in your second question... disolve unfruitful intentions

Best wishes

Hello! I'm a newcomer here, but I've been reading for a while.

I tried Jesed's "general to specific" dialogue about what seems to be a stalled relationship situation of my own, and here's what I got:

general diagnosis: 31.4 -> 39
my position: 5.3 -> 60
X's position: 1.3,5 -> 38
what I should do: 38.2,6 -> 51
Image of next 3 months: 62.5 -> 31

Cautiously, I'm inclined to think the situation looks rather more promising than I'd expected, but I'd be curious to hear what any of the rest of you think.

Hi Andrea

Just in case the comment could be useful
It is a very interesting dialogue

1.- General Diagnosis
The Time your relationship is living right now is short: started between August 1- September 16 and would end in December 16. It means: is ending already.

So, try to remember what actions in those months lead to mutual influence; and what actions in those months mislead you as a couple.

Is Time for Influence, but is walking to Obstruction (seems you think the relationship is already in obtruction Time).

If you want to avoid the relationship enter in Obstruction Time, you need to learn the advice of line 4. Something in the past months that made you/your partner doubt about the relationship.

Excitment, doubts, uncalm wishes. If you follow that path, your relationship would find obtructions.

2.- Your position within the relationship: is not good. Is like an army waiting the enemy in tha mud. Only defeat can be expected in that position. You need to acumulate energy to get out from the mud.

3.- X's position within the relationship: X is trying to influence and lead you (even control you); but that is dangerous. Too much energy would lead to oposition. X needs to act like line 5, and get some wise advice.

The picture seems like: X is like the active army searching for control you; and you are like the army waiting for fight back in an unfavorable place. Not good at all for relationships.

4.- What to do: Don't be rude, take small steps to solve the oposition, search for new mutual understanding. But don't betray your own way and individualty. That's the wisdom of negotiation. Both lines point to misunderstandings, each one think in the other as enemy.. but that's wrong. If you can solve that misunderstandings, good fortune and fair influence would arrive again

5.- Future image: small steps, attention to details, one find the correct parter and a great task can be achieve.

NOTICE: The resultant hexagram, in future image is 31.. just like the primary hexagram of the actual time. It means: if you follow the advice of Yi Jing, you would achive a evolution... like returning to an Influence Time but in a higher and better level.

AND THAT IS GREAT NEWS AND HOPE FOR YOUR RELATIONSHIP. But, again, is IN CASE YOU FOLLOW THE ADVICES

In one phrase: the relationship is walking to obstacles, beacuse of recent misundesrtandings and doubts. But you two can solve that misunderstandings by negotiation. If you achive that, romantic influence would return in a better and depper level.

Best wishes

sorry... in last paragraph: "If you achive that, influence would return in a better and depper level."

(without "romantic"... because is not necesarly a romantic influence... even if it could be a romantic one)

Thanks, Jesed. You're right about the short duration of the relationship, and I'm wondering where and how you read that.

Most of this makes sense to me. Next step, I guess: figure out how best to get out of the mud! I asked about that and got:

64.2,3,6 -> 62

Still scratching my head about that, but I suppose it emphasizes not rushing things, keeping quiet till I have something to say, not losing my head, and so on. (All of that makes sense, but it's exactly what I'm doing, so I'm not sure how it's supposed to get me out of the mud!)

Hi Andrea

"Thanks, Jesed. You're right about the short duration of the relationship, and I'm wondering where and how you read that. "
Look at this:
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/92/5540.html?1133014275

"I'm not sure how it's supposed to get me out of the mud"
a) Recover inner straight and calm (look the image of hexagram 5, and if you have it look at Whilelm's comment on 5.3)
b) Look carefuly point 4 of my comment.

Best wishes

"But since this is about changes, let's say if we do follow the I Ching's advice or change something now, can this affect and change the future outcome that was previously predicted? "

Agreeing with Jesed that yes, often you can. I suspect that's the whole point of an answer that prepares you for it... ;-)

"I am fairly new to the I Ching"

I'd suggest not being overly quick to draw conclusions about what the Yi can/can't do. Give it a while (maybe a *long* while) to let it show you what it's capable of. You're obviously open-minded or you wouldn't be using the Yi at all - power to you, keep it up!

- Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for replying.
However, it seems like all the hexagrams I received from the questions I asked were unfavourable to me.....

I like this person a lot and really hope to start something but all seem to go nowhere. I really don't know what to do.

The two final questions which asked doesn't seem to make any sense to me.

What does V want this relationship (with me) to evolve into?
Answer: 32.5 --> 28

What can I do to strengthen this relationship with V?
Answer: 59.1.3 --> 9

Jesed mentioned "disolve unfruitful intentions". My intention is just to have a love relationship. Does this mean that I should give up?

"it seems like all the hexagrams I received from the questions I asked were unfavourable to me..... "

Well, generally, of course there are some situations where you can't make things work out or the time/effort you would have to expend to make it work out would not be worth it. So if your answers are consistently negative, you're wise to take heed of that, too, IMHO.

- Jeff