Coronavirus (continued)

diamanda · Apr 11, 2020

Sorry to break the news to you Querent777, but the US is currently top of the world in infections and deaths, plus, near to zero measures taken. I feel so sad for the people of US, but also happy that this is the very end of US dominance in the world. Your insane leader is the US's total downfall.

Trojina · Apr 11, 2020

yup and just when you think he can't get any more mad he does

moss elk · Apr 11, 2020

diamanda said:
the US is currently top of the world in infections and deaths, plus, near to zero measures taken.

On the federal level, the president is doing much worse than nothing: he is seizing the supplies intended for certain US states (also Germany) as punishment for the people who won't worship him,
and giving them to the people that do.
(see the thread Trojina linked to)

As the internet nazi's have said,
"Our god-Emperor has arrived."

Donald Trump Supporters Are Now Calling Him 'God Emperor'

Things are getting really bizarre in Reddit's largest pro-Trump group.

www.huffpost.com

Surely nothing could go wrong...

Olga Super Star · Apr 12, 2020

What does it mean “US states including Germany”?

Liselle · Apr 12, 2020

elm sauce said:
https://huffpost.com/us/entry/us_579a6970e4b08a8e8b5d38b5
Surely nothing could go wrong...

On a mundane level, this link went wrong (404 error).

moss elk · Apr 12, 2020

Olga, it was my poor word choice.
I corrected to 'also Germany'.

Liselle, I corrected the link.

Lavalamp · Apr 16, 2020

diamanda said:
Sorry to break the news to you Querent777, but the US is currently top of the world in infections and deaths, plus, near to zero measures taken. I feel so sad for the people of US, but also happy that this is the very end of US dominance in the world. Your insane leader is the US's total downfall.

Such narrow minded, cockeyed contempt and animus Diamanda. The US has certainly taken measures, sometimes quite draconian unconstitutional ones by local officials to stop Covid-19.
And your statistics are far off. As of Tuesday 4/14/20 Belgium and Italy's death rates are each 12.8% and the UK's is 12.7%, that's confirmed cases divided by deaths. The United States has a death rate of 4.1%, and the World average is about 6%.
And your wish misfortune befalls my nation, and the attendant political glee is myopic, immoral and shameful.
If the American economy fails, the whole world's economies will fail. And if you are a student of the Yi or simply live acccording to the Golden Rule, you should know by now it is evil to wish misfortune - and disease and death - upon others.

- LL

Lavalamp · Apr 16, 2020

"Spain has the highest number of deaths per 100,000 residents: 38. " April 14, 2020

The US is the hardest-hit country in the coronavirus pandemic — but its 4% death rate is far lower than that of many other countries

Belgium, Italy, and the UK all have coronavirus death rates greater than 12% — three times the US's COVID-19 death rate.

www.businessinsider.com

Olga Super Star · Apr 16, 2020

May I point out that all these data are not worth much.

China is rumored to have been burned around 100,000 people in the first ten days, but didn’t say anything to avoid panic spreading. My Chinese friend says around 80,000 ashes were collected so far, so it’s really difficult to think that only 3,000 people died.

I know at least 2 people who died from corona virus who Have not been included among corona virus deaths, and some cities have had like 120 deaths against 20 last year, but only 2 have been considered covid. Meaning that actual covid deaths could be 7 times as much in certain areas. It’s going so fast they can’t cure everyone and when an elderly couple die in three days as the ones I know, they don’t take any test out of the corpses, they just take them away and burn them. But we aresure they were covid because their son fell ill too and he was taken to hospital being in his 50s.

Germany has few people dying from coronavirus but who knows whether they check everyone, maybe someone has cancer or is already in hospital, dies and it’s declared a cancer related death while it was corona.

It doesn’t make any sense to think in terms of performances..

Lavalamp · Apr 16, 2020

In the United States we are not overcounting actual cases, if anything we are undercounting. The vast majority of cases are asymptomatic, with no fever they won't test you and they tell you just stay home and self quarantine.
This means our actual death rate is even lower than the 4% in these stats. Everyone's is actually.
Our NIH and CDC thinks the mortality here is actually under 1%, once you account for undiagnosed cases.
In California, a State of about 40 million people, there have been 27, 097 confirmed cases. That is a 0.06775% low infection rate, Ridiculously low for an extremely contagious virus predicted to infect 50% and then 20% of the population.
And but 889 deaths. That is 3.28% of confirmed cases, but given the confirmed cases have to be way way way low, that is just too high a morbidity rate.
- LL

Olga Super Star · Apr 16, 2020

Morbidity rate is fake everywhere since it varies so much

I personally know an American in NY who was told he must assume he has had covid because he was sick and in bed for three days, high fever but no test done. They can’t test everyone and they have no idea how many people have it.

The only thorough testing was done in a small village in Italy where it was discovered that 60% of the 3,000 people had it but showed no symptoms and didn’t know at all the man who had died.

You keep talking in terms of performances, good doctors are everywhere, it’s a new virus, there’s no cure, there are no reasons why Americans should die less from it, you have Europeans dna, you are dying like everybody else in my opinion

In New York not so many people over 85 perhaps, I tend to think that the heart affected and retired are more likely to be living in less active cities

Lavalamp · Apr 16, 2020

I don't follow what point you are trying to make.
The US has a pretty low rate relative to everyone else.
Much of that is due to imposing travel bans with China and quarantine restrictions, and then travel restrictions with Europe earlier than anyone else. This slowed the infection and helped our hospitals not become overwhelmed.
And it doubtless saved a lot lives.

- LL

Trojina · Apr 16, 2020

Querent777 said:
I don't follow what point you are trying to make.
The US has a pretty low rate relative to everyone else.

No, the US does not have a low rate, it's spreading faster there than anywhere else . Your hospitals are overwhelmed. I'll get you some figures.

Currently standing at 28 and a half thousand deaths topping, massively I think, every other country. Scroll down the link and have a look.

Trojina · Apr 16, 2020

Querent777 said:
Such narrow minded, cockeyed contempt and animus Diamanda. The US has certainly taken measures, sometimes quite draconian unconstitutional ones by local officials to stop Covid-19.
And your statistics are far off. As of Tuesday 4/14/20 Belgium and Italy's death rates are each 12.8% and the UK's is 12.7%, that's confirmed cases divided by deaths. The United States has a death rate of 4.1%, and the World average is about 6%.
And your wish misfortune befalls my nation, and the attendant political glee is myopic, immoral and shameful.
If the American economy fails, the whole world's economies will fail. And if you are a student of the Yi or simply live acccording to the Golden Rule, you should know by now it is evil to wish misfortune - and disease and death - upon others.

- LL

She did not 'wish misfortune disease and death' upon others, she said she was sad for your country. Don't make things up to support your blinkered political biases.

Don't just babble back up with quotes when you make out a person said something.

So come on quote where you think Diamanda wished death and disease on others - it's a sick accusation and one you need to quote to back up which you can't

Let's have a look what she said, here it is

Sorry to break the news to you Querent777, but the US is currently top of the world in infections and deaths, plus, near to zero measures taken. I feel so sad for the people of US, but also happy that this is the very end of US dominance in the world. Your insane leader is the US's total downfall.

Where in that do you see wishing death and disease on others. It's quite damning thing to accuse someone of.

mandarin_23 · Apr 16, 2020

Yes, we shouldn't argue about death rates and so on ... there is no national contest, is there? At least, there shouldn't be! We are not in a war, counting dead people on each side in long lists. And I also can't see that anyone in this forum wished desease and death upon others. And this is what the reading says - hexagram 13, people in harmony.

We all don't really know exactly about the rates and numbers, it depends on how many persons have been tested and also the relability of test and the definition of death causes. A nation's mortality rate also depends on many factors such as the average age, way of life, economy, and the structures and resilience of the health systems - and, again written, the way to figure the numbers out. There might be factors we might not even have the slightest idea about so far. Things may also change rapidly.

And all of these percentages and rates are just assumptions and abstractions, tables we see on our screens in the news, which help the responsibles to make decisions. Every ill person is a single person, wherever and whatever nation he or she belongs to. Let us just think about those who suffer, and hope the best for the health of everybody.

Trojina · Apr 16, 2020

Figures do matter and can't be just brushed aside, governments can't afford to be woolly about this because the graphs determine when the peak is reached and when lockdown measures can be eased. Just saying they aren't reliable doesn't help, all statistics can be seen as dubious due to varying factors but nonetheless they are necessary. We need to know when the peak has been reached.

So numbers aren't at all 'just assumptions and abstractions' how can they be when they are there as a guide and a measure to decide how much lockdown at what time. We could hardly manage without them, we can't guess when the peak is, scientists can't guess, there has to be measures of some kind.

Someone saying the death rate in the US compares well to other countries is fantasizing

Lavalamp · Apr 16, 2020

Trojina said:
No, the US does not have a low rate, it's spreading faster there than anywhere else . Your hospitals are overwhelmed. I'll get you some figures.
Currently standing at 28 and a half thousand deaths topping, massively I think, every other country. Scroll down the link and have a look.

Here's a handy chart you might like to refer to before you get too full of yourself Trojina.
It is from today at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries.
One is Coronavirus sorted by deaths per million population. The US is 15th in the world.
Two is Coronavirus Countries sorted by Cases per million population. The US is 20th in the world.

Where do you live again?
And btw, no, our hospitals are not and were not overwhelmed.

Liselle · Apr 16, 2020

Querent777 said:
And btw, no, our hospitals are not and were not overwhelmed.

Some hospitals in some places seemed pretty overwhelmed for a while, e.g. New York.

Lavalamp · Apr 16, 2020

And here are some charts on the "flattening of the curve" in New York, our hardest hit state. From April 9, but the downward trend in new Covid19 hospitilizations and ICU admissions has continued and fallen below the baseline. The death count is a lagging indicator. Of the 2500 extra beds the Federal government built, the city eventually used 800, according to Governor Cuomo at yesterdays Presser.
I have been in TV News for 25 years guys. I know my stats.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...oronavirus-deaths-day-799-dying-24-hours.html

- LL

Trojina · Apr 16, 2020

Querent777 said:
Here's a handy chart you might like to refer to before you get too full of yourself Trojina.

Look do you understand the rules here ? No personal abuse. I have not personally abused you but disagreed with your ideas - hence you do not say that I get too full of myself because I offer you a chart.

Trojina · Apr 16, 2020

Querent777 said:
Where do you live again?
And btw, no, our hospitals are not and were not overwhelmed.

Oh really ? Not overwhelmed ? The footage and reporting on the UK BBC news must be all false. Wake up will you and quit the personal abuse !

Trojina · Apr 16, 2020

Querent777 said:
I have been in TV News for 25 years guys. I know my stats.

And he says I'm too full of myself.

Querent777 said:
And here are some charts on the "flattening of the curve" in New York, our hardest hit state. From April 9, but the downward trend in new Covid19 hospitilizations and ICU admissions has continued and fallen below the baseline. The death count is a lagging indicator. Of the 2500 extra beds the Federal government built, the city eventually used 800, according to Governor Cuomo at yesterdays Presser.
I have been in TV News for 25 years guys. I know my stats.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...oronavirus-deaths-day-799-dying-24-hours.html

- LL

Hilarious - is that the best you could find. That newspaper is the laughing stock of the country - right wing gibberish that isn't even news it's not even taken seriously.

I mean if the Daily Mail says it we know it's bollocks.

Liselle · Apr 16, 2020

Querent777 said:
Of the 2500 extra beds the Federal government built, the city eventually used 800

Which I think is an indication of overwhelmedness... I mean, using 800 of the extra beds means the regular hospitals had 800 too few - I think - right?

Lavalamp · Apr 16, 2020

NY Governor's Presser Wednesday April 15, 2020

Lavalamp · Apr 16, 2020

Liselle said:
Which I think is an indication of overwhelmedness... I mean, using 800 of the extra beds means the regular hospitals had 800 too few - I think - right?

No not overwhelmed. They added capacity 2500 *Hospital* beds. They used less 1/3rd of them.
Overwhelmed is when you have patients in the hallways, in the break room, nothing close to that happened and they did not run out of ventilators at all. All the modeling projections were *way* off, exponentially so.
- LL

Lavalamp · Apr 16, 2020

Trojina said:
I mean if the Daily Mail says it we know it's bollocks.

In others words you can't be bothered to inform yourself really.
The information in the article is directly from Governor of New York Cuomo's press briefing, his charts.
Here is what several different models predicted - Vs actual beds needed on he dotted line.

- LL

Trojina · Apr 16, 2020

Perhaps you ought to go and continue in Open Space as this has nothing to do with Yi. There's a thread open called PanDumbic

Olga Super Star · Apr 16, 2020

Querent777 said:
No not overwhelmed. They added capacity 2500 *Hospital* beds. They used less 1/3rd of them.
Overwhelmed is when you have patients in the hallways, in the break room

Which is exactly what would have happened if you didn’t build a new hospital.

my point is: who cares

if a country has people in corridors and hallways it just means it has more cases
It’s a matter of luck, not of organization nor money

You are so organized that Leonardo Di Caprio had to open up a foundation to get food to the millions of Americans who lost their jobs

Lavalamp · Apr 16, 2020

Trojina, you said you would prove me wrong with statistics.
You were hoisted on your own petard.
- LL

moss elk · Apr 16, 2020

Querent777 said:
I have been in TV News for 25 years guys. I know my stats.

Fox, The National Enquirer, Golf Geezers Gazette, Guns &Ammo and Smaugs Weekly Aquisition and Hoarding report aren't really news.

It's amazing to me that an asian man who laments about and acknowledges mistreatment of 'gutter races' has linked himself to the racist elite in this country.
When in Rome do as the Romans do....
I suppose. I can only imagine the headaches caused trying to reconcile that with your religion. Maybe Scotch helps you forget.

Coronavirus (continued)

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