Hello there,
I am new here and I am almost new with I Ching, so it would be wonderful if I could receive a little help. Please also excuse my English if it is not good enough, it is not my native language.

I am having a healing process for a few years with a therapist and in a few words the whole process changed my life. During these numerous sessions, at some point I felt an attraction with my therapist and I assumed that sometimes this can happen but that's all... One year ago I received an acupuncture treatment from him and I had some kind of spiritual awakening. At some point I felt a bond and I am not sure of the nature of this bond. Perhaps it's a spiritual bond, a one side attraction because he helped me so much - but in that case it's not good for me. But I also wonder why this person had taken so much importance in my life and if there is something more, some improper exceeding i should remove? It's also not a friendship. To be sincere I am even confused with my own feelings and seek clarity. Note that I am also in a committed relationship with someone I love for more than a decade.


So here comes my readings and questions:

What is the nature of this relationship/bond? 59.3.5.6 >46
59 > I can read here that's a deep healing relationship. It dissolved many wounds but also give me the feeling to dissolve myself.
Anyway I am not sure to understand " 59.6"
46 >> This relationship helps me to progress and I should continue to go to therapy.



It would be wonderful if I could receive a little help with the interpretation. I would be greateful for it.
Best

Hello... any help? I really need for clarity, so any help with the interpretation would be helpful

I'll give it a try and then maybe others will chime in.

Since it's a therapeutic relationship, I think the casting could make sense in that maybe these are things this person helps you with? The tendency to lose yourself (maybe codependency or low self-esteem, or unclear sense of identity?), to release tension and get feelings out, and to leave situation or thoughts that are harmful for you. That's how I would interpret it... the only thing is that I can't be sure if line 6 implies it leading up to you needing to part ways with this person. In a romantic or personal context, I wouldn't really see this casting as very positive because it sounds like maybe losing yourself and needing to pull away from a dangerous situation. Or just warning you that's a possibility. I do think often we are simply being shown dynamics. I don't think this one is telling you to draw any closer but if it's working for you as is then probably just describing the therapeutic dynamic. One of your hidden lines is 57.5 which implies that rather than make a big, permanent decision on whether this person is good or bad for you, just see as you go. Work and then assess, work and then assess. Could be fruitful (and obviously already has been!) but it will also be up to you to assess when it's run its course.

59 > 46 could be something that propels you forward and then you release it. It's not permanent. I know sometimes 59 can be reunion so maybe it means you meet again at a favorable time... personally I don't see romance here but perhaps someone else will have another perspective. Line 5 can sometimes be passion although it doesn't look especially advised in this context, and it's iffy if it even has that more intense connotation since it has another obvious possible meaning that's suited to a therapeutic relationship.

Thank you so much Redoleander ...I am new in Iching and it's sometimes so opaque for me.
You have been pointing something very important about losing myself and unclear sense of identity...

This acupuncture therapy started just like just any another therapy - but one year ago we explored something more spiritual from his Tao master - and I felt i dissolved myself. My whole inner world changed drastically, it opened a door literally... I also felt that a bond was created with him, which was not the one you expect from a therapist. It can sound weird, but sometimes I feel like genuine love - bu I don't really know this person. At the same time, I know that sometimes this happens with psychotherapist - sometimes it's part of the process. The point is I feel that going at therapy - has been opening this spiritual door in a positive way, changed my perspective of life, healed my traumas but now I feel that I should walk my way without his help and perhaps it runs its course.

I also feel this relationship being unclear and I feel - you are right some kind of co-dependency when I met him.


In the meantime, my relationship with my actual partner is also changing and we also grow a little bit apart, which also happen when you spent more than a decade together. But i cherish our family, friendship and trust, as well as our peaceful life. That's the reason why I feel confused about my therapist dynamics, and I have second guess about my own feelings.

To explore a little bit more about the dynamic, I have been asking to more questions:

How does my therapist feels about our relationship/what is his position?
I know him as a therapist but not so personally..

This was the result 60.6 > 61
60.6 I can read the boundaries within the therapy relationship and the good morals too.
61 : Reading this one, I am not sure to clearly understand but I tough that maybe this man and I are in a similar spiritual path, looking for something similar.

And I finally asked:

Where am I on my own love/relationship journey and advice from the Yi Ching?
I got 39 Limping unchanging
I wonder for this one, if it's me struggling in my actual relationship to make it work against the flow and for the sake of the family - and because that's the normal challenge of a very long term relationship ? Or if going to therapy/continue to visit my therapist can be the obstacle of my current one?
The 39 also reminds me that I no longer know what to do, where to go. Perhaps that's the real work in a relationship as well as in life, to overcome obstacles...Any suggestion to understand this?

Hello, any insights about the 2 others hecagramms? It actually gives me the feeling i should take distance...

Torshavn said:

I know him as a therapist but not so personally

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Torshavn, I am curious (and please answer only if you want to): you refer to this person as your therapist, and that what you are involved in with him as therapy. I'm not challenging this, but it made wonder: it seems he is an acupuncturist and perhaps a spiritual (daoist?) teacher, but is he also a trained or licensed counselor or therapist? (In US states these people go by different titles - 'marriage and family counselor', psychologist, social worker). Is your therapist trained and/or licensed in this way as well? I ask so I can better understand the nature of your relationship, and to get a better sense of what you (or he) mean by 'therapy'.

He is trained as an acupuncturist/chinese medicine. I went for tinnitus ( i don’t have anymore). My tinnitus appeared after 2 extremely difficult family loss and mournings. At the end, the therapy was working extremely well for my anxiety and was keeping me balanced amd extremely peaceful about the life difficulties that were appearing. It really helped to go through those losses. So i went almost every week for 3 years... the last year was because i was complaining about an overwhelming sensitivity. I had a psychoterapy when I was younger but « speaking » never helped me in being emotionaly balanced. Acupuncture and body work did.

Torshavn said:

What is the nature of this relationship/bond? 59.3.5.6 >46

Click to expand...

This seems to me to be describing changes in your relationship.

Looking at the trigrams (three-line figures), with 59, you have lower trigram Water changing to Wind (in Hex. 46): I see this as representing you, going from a place of vulnerability and/or hurt (which I'm not judging, and which I think may be necessary for our healing) to a place where you can explore possibilities - and learn how to do so - perhaps about yourself, your life, and/or our world.

59's Upper trigram is Wind, changing to Earth: I see this as representing your acupuncturist, and that your work together has been the catalyst for your changes: for me, Wind represents gently and patiently exploring possibilities, sending out 'feelers' and getting back and responding to this feedback, these 'messages', feelings, etc. The change to Earth (46's upper trigram) brings to mind words from the Dazhuan, the Great Treatise - one of the Ten Wings commentaries which are part of the Yijing. It says that the Yi is ....

" .... shedding light on trouble and its causes,
not as a guide or a teacher,
but like a parent at ones' side .... "

It makes me wonder if your acupuncturist has taken on a kind of parental role for you, even if it's just a projection on your part. I am not insinuating anything incestual nor inappropriate, only that this sort of relationship - perceived or actual - can awaken strong feelings.

This also brings to mind the healthy roles that (healthy) parents have in our lives: they guide us, teach us (and in your case, heal), and then they send us out to make our way in the world.

Richard Rutt called Hex. 59 'Gushing' which for me has both positive and negative associations: the gushing of a geyser or one 'gushing' praise upon another; or ... the gushing of blood from an open wound.

Lines 59.3 and 59.5 talk about 'gushing on the body' and 'gushing, flushing the liver ...." For me, these are about the work you are doing, which is healing / changing / purifying your body (and perhaps also your mind and heart?)

Lines 59.5 and 59.6 talk about 'gushing in the king's dwelling' and the gushing blood of castration: these are more difficult for me to understand - but venturing a guess: perhaps these are about healing a parental / father wound or relationship? Or they are about feeling (or struggling with) both needing to be separate from and at the same time feeling torn away from father (or parents)? Whatever you may think or feel about this, I sense it is part of your healing and will ultimately be positive (the text says 'no misfortune').

As an aside: I'd say if your acupuncturist is not trying to steer your life, thoughts, or feelings in a certain direction, and he is not doing anything which feels inappropriate, than I don't sense that there is harm being done. However, it could be that at some point - even without any negativity - your feel your time together is over, and it's time to move on to other things - like the crane sending her chicks from the nest! Also, I think that sometimes emotional-mental (what I think of as counselling) can be helpful - or even necessary - in our healing (but this is a personal choice, and not a recommendation on my part).

I hope this is useful for you.

Regards, D

How does my therapist feels about our relationship/what is his position?
60.6 > 61

Sounds like maybe he knows the boundaries of the relationship and isn't overly distancing but also does maintain distance. I suppose there's a possibility that he finds the limits of the relationship too restrictive but I'd be very hesitant to make such a big leap in assumption off a reading alone (without other signs).

Where am I on my own love/relationship journey and advice from the Yi Ching?
39 Limping unchanging

You're in a period of difficulty or feeling blocked. 39 UC is sometimes about not just continuing on as you have been but exploring what a different approach might do for you. Perhaps being in the same pattern in your relationship is making you look outside of it but that may not specifically be the change you need, just some sort of difference in approach that solves problems without coming at them in the same way (or even a direct way).

dfreed said:

59's Upper trigram is Wind, changing to Earth: I see this as representing your acupuncturist, and that your work together has been the catalyst for your changes: for me, Wind represents gently and patiently exploring possibilities, sending out 'feelers' and getting back and responding to this feedback, these 'messages', feelings, etc. The change to Earth (46's upper trigram) brings to mind words from the Dazhuan, the Great Treatise - one of the Ten Wings commentaries which are part of the Yijing. It says that the Yi is ....

" .... shedding light on trouble and its causes,
not as a guide or a teacher,
but like a parent at ones' side .... "

It makes me wonder if your acupuncturist has taken on a kind of parental role for you, even if it's just a projection on your part. I am not insinuating anything incestual nor inappropriate, only that this sort of relationship - perceived or actual - can awaken strong feelings.

This also brings to mind the healthy roles that (healthy) parents have in our lives: they guide us, teach us (and in your case, heal), and then they send us out to make our way in the world.

Richard Rutt called Hex. 59 'Gushing' which for me has both positive and negative associations: the gushing of a geyser or one 'gushing' praise upon another; or ... the gushing of blood from an open wound.

Lines 59.3 and 59.5 talk about 'gushing on the body' and 'gushing, flushing the liver ...." For me, these are about the work you are doing, which is healing / changing / purifying your body (and perhaps also your mind and heart?)

Lines 59.5 and 59.6 talk about 'gushing in the king's dwelling' and the gushing blood of castration: these are more difficult for me to understand - but venturing a guess: perhaps these are about healing a parental / father wound or relationship? Or they are about feeling (or struggling with) both needing to be separate from and at the same time feeling torn away from father (or parents)? Whatever you may think or feel about this, I sense it is part of your healing and will ultimately be positive (the text says 'no misfortune').

As an aside: I'd say if your acupuncturist is not trying to steer your life, thoughts, or feelings in a certain direction, and he is not doing anything which feels inappropriate, than I don't sense that there is harm being done. However, it could be that at some point - even without any negativity - your feel your time together is over, and it's time to move on to other things - like the crane sending her chicks from the nest! Also, I think that sometimes emotional-mental (what I think of as counselling) can be helpful - or even necessary - in our healing (but this is a personal choice, and not a recommendation on my part).

I hope this is useful for you.

Regards, D

Click to expand...

Thank you so much for Dfreed and Redoleander

Dfreed, I am curious...You have been talking about "Hex. 59 'Gushing' which for me has both positive and negative associations: the gushing of a geyser or one 'gushing' praise upon another; or ... the gushing of blood from an open wound". This image makes sense for me. Since I started that "one year therapy" - which was going with the season, I started to feel a pressure and some kind of electricity that rise in the middle in the back and travel in the body - arms and legs, back and neck. For me this is something about the heart Chakra - but my acupuncturist call it "Ling Tai". This kind of energy/electricity awaken in that exact point, moves, and is more or less always here for one more than one year now. It's also part of this "spiritual change" I was talking previously. "the gushing of a geyser " is a beautiful description of it in my opinion.


About if my therapist is having a parent role...In some way, yes and no. I can feel genuine interest in all his patients, and I feel that he also have a genuine interest in me going better or not. He take care in many aspects.


Redoleander, thank you. You are right about 39. This helps me very much

Torshavn said:

About if my therapist is having a parent role...In some way, yes and no. I can feel genuine interest in all his patients, and I feel that he also have a genuine interest in me going better or not. He take care in many aspects.

Click to expand...

I appreciate your response.

As to this 'parental' idea (and it's just an idea): the 'role' might be more an emotional / feeling sort of thing - and is not so clearly defined. And it could be about how you feel towards him (even unconsciously), and is not at all about what he does or says. (And if this doesn't ring true, no worries.)

The more general sense is that there is a relationship of some sort, and that perhaps it's changing.

It reminds me a bit of 'falling in love' - sometimes we do this and develop a 'loving relationship' despite any 'real' connection: we simply fall for someone, even if we have no shared interests, can't really communicate, and maybe have hardly met them, etc. But still, we might feel we have a 'very real connection' that can affect us deeply. Love is funny that way.

Best, D

Torshavn said:

Hello there,
I am new here and I am almost new with I Ching, so it would be wonderful if I could receive a little help. Please also excuse my English if it is not good enough, it is not my native language.

I am having a healing process for a few years with a therapist and in a few words the whole process changed my life. During these numerous sessions, at some point I felt an attraction with my therapist and I assumed that sometimes this can happen but that's all... One year ago I received an acupuncture treatment from him and I had some kind of spiritual awakening. At some point I felt a bond and I am not sure of the nature of this bond. Perhaps it's a spiritual bond, a one side attraction because he helped me so much - but in that case it's not good for me. But I also wonder why this person had taken so much importance in my life and if there is something more, some improper exceeding i should remove? It's also not a friendship. To be sincere I am even confused with my own feelings and seek clarity. Note that I am also in a committed relationship with someone I love for more than a decade.


So here comes my readings and questions:

What is the nature of this relationship/bond? 59.3.5.6 >46
59 > I can read here that's a deep healing relationship. It dissolved many wounds but also give me the feeling to dissolve myself.
Anyway I am not sure to understand " 59.6"
46 >> This relationship helps me to progress and I should continue to go to therapy.



It would be wonderful if I could receive a little help with the interpretation. I would be greateful for it.
Best

Click to expand...

You're asking why this person has taken such a central role in your life? It's a well known phenomenon called 'transference' and can be used to advantage in certain psychotherapeutic situations.


Freud first noticed it happening with his patients and could see that in fact at times by relating to him as if he were their father for example it gave them the chance to work through issues directly with him because in that patient's mind the therapist had almost, subconsciously become the father.

Any therapist has to be aware of the possibility of transference and also counter transference which works the other way around. If they aren't consciously working with and aware of that things could get quite messy which they have for you by the sound of it. So your response is perfectly usual and it would likely have happened with other therapists so this isn't something special to him, you have transferred your feelings onto him.


Yi's answer 59.3.5.6>46 phew it gives me the impression of a full on meltdown of you into him which is precisely what you said yourself here

Torshavn said:

. It dissolved many wounds but also give me the feeling to dissolve myself.

Click to expand...

I find it worrying that you have gotten so far into this and he hasn't discussed transference with you ? Or maybe he has...but he needs to.


If this has helped you that's brilliant but you don't want to end up with such blurry boundaries with him you kind of don't know where he stops and you start which is the danger particularly in line 6 which does advise you to get clear.

Torshavn said:

Note that I am also in a committed relationship with someone I love for more than a decad

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And that's the real sustaining relationship - the relationship with the therapist is likely just transference. Towards the end of therapy the therapist should gently somehow wean you off that transference, so you are put back together again to face the world. The danger with this person might be you just remain open, there's no closure even though it's been good and there's been growth. He or she will have sessions with their own supervisor to work through their own feelings in their work and it sounds like possibly the therapist could use a little more 'supervision' a term used by psychotherapists. I mean I don't know of course but it all looks a bit too open to me and in line 6 one is being advised to keep in one piece, to stop bleeding outwards as it were.

It looks like everything has been poured into this (59.5) and that's been good for you but when does it end ?(59.6) and don't forget this person is acting in a professional role, or meant to be and if he isn't then he destabilises you and your relationship.

Thank you dfreed


hello Trojina Thank you very much.

i had a Psychotherapy and i know what transference is but in this case it doesn't really resonates to me in this situation. Some parental/protective role, yes it resonates - because I can feel this protective and genuine attitude but a transference I don't feel it.

I think this therapy made me grow in a spiritual way that I was not even interested in.... and this therapy made him grow as a therapist because we talked about it. The outcome was surprising with both of us.


Trojina, about “ Dissolving myself” I was referring to the experience I had these past 18 months. I have the feeling that my "identity" is melting, all the area of my life that were important are not so much. It's like releasing everything to be in the moment. My creative work which was extremely important lost its importance. I still love my creative work, but it is not meaningful as before. I also feel emotionally detached from many things that were very important for me. This inner transformation is so huge for me, that right now, that I feel this therapy perhaps is over and that I need to walk my way, learn vipassana meditation ( my interest in meditation has been growing ), learn how to be peaceful in all situations without the help of my therapist and just be.