Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
I all, I want to share a story with you and to get your view about something that came to my mind recently.
I discovered the I Ching back in 2014 from my best friend. She shared this with me during a difficult period in our lives - we both broke up after a long unhealthy relationship. (Not sure who told her about the book). Since I read and I tried to learn about the readings and interpretations of the questions I ask (I am not an expert). I use the I Ching when I am stuck in a difficult situation and I need an insight or when I get anxious about a certain subject and I want a hint about the future.
Recently, talking with my husband about the I Ching and the consult I made, he made me think about one point:
- these “supernatural” ways of getting hints can be dangerous because those divinations who give us the answers can be demons. And demons feed on our energy and souls.
- he also brought up that demons rarely give something for free and there might be a price to pay for every casts we make and answers we receive.
(I m not saying he is right - I am just sharing what my husband and I were talking about).
He saw some witchcrafts, dark magic, tarots readings, spirit possessions, when he was a kid. Many years ago women used to make use of these kind of ways to obtain answers. Perhaps now a days less or maybe less known.
Anyway, since then he believes that these kind of supernatural things are not good energy but the opposite.
I was not aware of this and it did not cross my mind before.
99% of the times the I Ching was accurate with me. And the answers were spot on. I was helped and I got insights about how my present can change, how my future might look like, what to do if I wanted something, etc etc. I am sure you know what I talk about, we all get that.
Hence now I asked myself
a) “the answers we get from the I Ching is given by demons? That means we communicate with them?
b) Do we need to pay a price later in life? Are we actually paying the price right now in the presente and we don’t realise?”
c) are we doing something we are not supposed to do and there will be consequences on us or people we love?
has anyone asked themselves these questions? What’s your opinion about it?
I Ching is a supernatural or divination or an energy. I respect it and it did helped me and still does.Your husband speaks like he has extensive and expert knowledge on the subject of demonology.
But, he doesn't really, does he?
No, he doesn't.
I mean, he has understandable (based on his history) but irrational fears about something he really doesn't know anything about.
Pose this question to him:
"How do you judge if a human being is good or evil?"
Answer: the proof is in their actions/intentions and the fruit of them.
Yi (a poem written by human beings) has been giving good (Life supporting & affirming) advice for 3000+ years.
There is the pudding. (Evidence)
It's all the proof one needs.
I can personally testify that Yi has given me invaluable advise over the years.
It has helped me safely navigate dangerous people and situations, and has helped to bring many positive transformations in my life.
There much be something supernatural / divination in the I Ching. Don’t you agree?Demons are a religious thing. I Ching is not religious. The same way thoughts can mislead us the same way misunderstanding the text of the I Ching can confuse us. Believing that demons lurk behind the text could roughly be called paranoia and yes: if we are being caught by doubts led out by such misunderstandings we could easily find ourselves in hands of evil forces, but those evil forces are not real but do only exist in our mind.
You said to ask how we judge if a person is good or bad. Your question is about a person.
I see why your husband would be concerned, I didn't feel your approach was helpful to you at all in asking so much for predictions about baby's health and so it's possible your husband wishes you wouldn't lean so much on Yi and he's trying to give reasons as to why you shouldn't keep consulting. He doesn't know much about Yi I'm guessing so he's lumping it together with Tarot and all sorts of other things. I think he's right it is dangerous to mess too much with energies you really do not understand and harm can result.Recently, talking with my husband about the I Ching and the consult I made, he made me think about one point:
- these “supernatural” ways of getting hints can be dangerous because those divinations who give us the answers can be demons. And demons feed on our energy and souls.
- he also brought up that demons rarely give something for free and there might be a price to pay for every casts we make and answers we receive.
(I m not saying he is right - I am just sharing what my husband and I were talking about).
echoing what Moss said about the fruits of things. In my experience Yi is truthful and has not led me astray. Also Yi is an oracle that in my experience recognises and exalts Jesus very clearly so that also makes me think Yi is not demonic.From Matthew 7:15–20 (KJV):
Ye shall know them by their fruit. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Yes the I Ching is full of demons look at 63.3 and 64.4 and 38.6 to start with. While we can say these may be psychological factors in our readings that still does not negate the actual existence of demons. Clearly the writers of Yi reckoned with demons. Demons are not a purely religious thing, they occur in all spiritual traditions and none. From the earliest times, pre Yi, pre religions people believed in demons.Demons are a religious thing. I Ching is not religious.
Believing that demons lurk behind the text could roughly be called paranoia and yes: if we are being caught by doubts led out by such misunderstandings we could easily find ourselves in hands of evil forces, but those evil forces are not real but do only exist in our mind.
Hence now I asked myself
a) “the answers we get from the I Ching is given by demons? That means we communicate with them?
b) Do we need to pay a price later in life? Are we actually paying the price right now in the presente and we don’t realise?”
c) are we doing something we are not supposed to do and there will be consequences on us or people we love?
has anyone asked themselves these questions? What’s your opinion about
But re Yi being demonic, well it's certainly a question worth considering and I guess no one knows for sure 'who' we consult when we consult. There is much truth in this passage where Jesus says
From Matthew 7:15–20 (KJV):
Ye shall know them by their fruit.
I wouldn't necessarily pin it down to a personality as such, it's not a person. The communication is with living intelligence, if it were not living intelligence there would be no reason for me to converse with it. Indeed if it is not living intelligence I cannot see where you'd think the answers come from but people have various ideas about that. Where and how you think answers come is a very individual thing and I don't think it makes any difference to the quality of the consultation.I personally have never had the sense that I was communicating with a personality or being.
At the risk of opening a can of worms, it might be worth enquiring into this. If divination in his experience was specifically something women did, what were the men doing? I'd hazard a guess that they were invested in an accepted religious tradition - Christianity, for instance - which deliberately excluded women from positions of authority. And when that same religious tradition pronounces on the value of divination, it finds it demonic. Hmm.Many years ago women used to make use of these kind of ways to obtain answers.
No, it's not true that fears of demons are down to a source in a book, any book, that's just making spiritual reality a matter of academics. You are completely discounting people's actual experience with spirits now, today, that do not rely on having read old books and that includes academic books on the I Ching. Talking to Yi doesn't depend on academic study. If it's a living energy which I think it is you need not concern yourself you don't have enough hours in the day to cram it all in as you described here, you can go direct and have a conversation with it. Academic resources are of great value, without these we couldn't even access translations, but they really are not the 'source' of Yi and nor are books the source of demons and angels and so on.And fears for demons especially concerning divination, amongst religious (Christians specifically but maybe others ) people, could possible (?) be traced to such sources as lay behind this book.
So you are really saying that though you do not believe in the existence of either demons, or any other spiritual beings outside of books, divination of any kind is good and all religion is bad. Religions deal with spiritual reality, don't fall into the trap of discarding the truth of religions because of what humans have done with it. I mean humans can make Yi into an oracle of lies, evil and oppression. Some can call themselves 'masters' and claim they have complete knowledge of someone's fate in a matter through Yi, some make it say what it never said at all, some translate it to what it never said at all...and the same with religious texts and all ancients texts. They all have humans with agendas as filters but that does not make them of no worth in teachings of spiritual reality. Just because various religious bodies used force to indoctrinate people that does not mean all the teachings of that religion didn't hold great value.- and, in general, we are not being forced into using/consulting the Book of Changes. Many religions, on the contrary, people are being forced into. Our parents baptised us when being very small/newborns and strong religious traditions, 1000 years of age being pulled down upon us. But the safety this gives, being secure in "the herd" is OK (speaking of religious affiliation) - just that they (the religions) are not all that is in this life... (I believe). What are demons to one religious point of view is contrary to another religious point of view. (I still though believe that demons only exist in our imagination.)
So you think human imagination contains all the spiritual realms and there is nothing that exists in it's own right in that realm beyond that imagination. If you think demons only exist in the mind what about angels? This idea that human imagination is the very limit of spiritual reality would explain why you think academia is the only way to know Yi maybe? Maybe you don't think Yi is a living consciousness but that it is just a source in a book somewhere? If you believe that it will indeed be a very tiring project to get to know Yi. To me the idea that demons only exist in our imagination is making the universe completely humancentric.(I still though believe that demons only exist in our imagination.)
The Greek origin of the word did not have negative qualities attached to it.
It meant diety or 'lesser' diety.
Attaching 'evil' to the concept came from outside: the abrahamic traditions.
You haven't had any experience of evil spirits then but that doesn't mean they do not exist. I really don't know how anyone can think that everything in the realm of spirit is all lovely and rosy - it's not here on earth and nor is it on other realms.All the Beasts and devils I have known walked on two legs.
All over the world in traditions and cultures of all kind people have believed in bad spirits and demons.
I'm astonished at your confidence about that. I can't see how you would possibly know that but maybe it's more a case of you don't want them to exist. I'm sure I'd rather they didn't but still.So, I've explained here why I avoid the discussion about demons: Again, because they don't exist.
I do not think he is being irrational - certainly not compared to us who talk to a book and those who expect long term hard as stone predictions from a book. His wife, Mylife, has wanted those as I have seen in SR. We have discussed it over there and I've almost begged her I think to stop asking for predictions about the health of a baby that at that time did not even exist. If her husband thinks her engagement with Yi is going in a dark direction I am wholly in agreement with him. And what he says is true there can be dangers in dabbling with the occult. He can't distinguish between Yi and other ways that's all but that does not mean he is being irrational he's probably just concerned.I mean, he has understandable (based on his history) but irrational fears about something he really doesn't know anything about.
I'm having trouble connecting this strand with the original post. I mean yes of course there are nuts who propose demons must be driven out of innocent people, historically all that horror of the witch hunts, but that by no means means there is no such thing as the power of evil or demonic spirits who serve it.My point is about identifying and dealing with actual devils (as opposed to theoretical ones) and to be careful about what one believes, because that which is within our ability to deal with, is what we should deal with.
Wow @Trojina thanks a lot for your full and extended explanation. I think you covered it all. And here I agree with you that we don’t know “who” we speak with hence the doubts and questions pop in my head.I see why your husband would be concerned, I didn't feel your approach was helpful to you at all in asking so much for predictions about baby's health and so it's possible your husband wishes you wouldn't lean so much on Yi and he's trying to give reasons as to why you shouldn't keep consulting. He doesn't know much about Yi I'm guessing so he's lumping it together with Tarot and all sorts of other things. I think he's right it is dangerous to mess too much with energies you really do not understand and harm can result.
But re Yi being demonic, well it's certainly a question worth considering and I guess no one knows for sure 'who' we consult when we consult. There is much truth in this passage where Jesus says
echoing what Moss said about the fruits of things. In my experience Yi is truthful and has not led me astray. Also Yi is an oracle that in my experience recognises and exalts Jesus very clearly so that also makes me think Yi is not demonic.
You'll find we all have very different views on this. I disagree with Sernevs when he says these things
Yes the I Ching is full of demons look at 63.3 and 64.4 and 38.6 to start with. While we can say these may be psychological factors in our readings that still does not negate the actual existence of demons. Clearly the writers of Yi reckoned with demons. Demons are not a purely religious thing, they occur in all spiritual traditions and none. From the earliest times, pre Yi, pre religions people believed in demons.
Just because it may not be in our experience doesn't mean it does not exist. Humans are just one life form and there are all kinds of life forms we may not perceive, ghosts, fairies ...it would be human arrogance to think these things only exist in our minds with no life of their own beyond our own heads.
I do not think the idea that demons are behind the text can be said to be called paranoia. Why wouldn't someone think that if they hadn't used Yi. Also frankly a great number of people do themselves a great deal of harm through consulting Yi. That is not that Yi itself is harmful but that they use it instead of thinking for themselves, become passive, dependent or frightened of answers.
Evil exists, it is not merely a product of our minds since we are not the absolute centre of the whole of creation. Just as bad people exist or people at least that will harm others so there are spirits who may intend harm. We are spirits wearing bodies and if we can be bad with a body we can be bad without one. And there are greater more powerful spiritual forces than ourselves so if we ever get to thinking all these things are just products of our minds we probably have a rude awakening coming some time or another if we mess about with the darker side of divination etc.
I often ask myself about the nature of what I consult, I think about it. It seems to me Yi is a 'clean' kind of divination, not open to entities to be tampered with. If you think you are talking to demons then stop.
Sparhawk once talked about how divining, consulting Yi, does impact on the fabric of life in subtle ways. No one can be sure of course what effect that has energetically. I think overall it is better to cast less rather than more. This is because for each casting I believe there is an energy exchange, I feel it. I don't think a person can cope properly with many questions as the actual communication gets lost. The worse thing about the online casting tool and these apps is it encourages mindless and repetitive questioning which is psychologically unhealthy. If you are always trying to cheat life by getting a view ahead, believing you can manipulate the future or other people well that sounds kind of demonic. But actually Yi is far more than that and so I don't think it does engage on that demonic level.
Oh another reason I feel Yi is 'clean' as an oracle is the number of times it either gives the question back to you or simply reflects the question. Therefore it is not impinging on your own power. Anything of a demonic nature will start to take away your independence, it won't encourage independence as it wants you enslaved. Yi is constantly saying 'you decide/what do you think?' that's how I find it. That's how I think it is a good deal of the time. So while I do think we are making an energetic exchange with Yi I don't think it pulls us into slavery.
I believe too that we communicate with someone, with some sort of energy or entity. And that’s what I would like to understand if this entity / energy is a good one who helps freely out of the good being or a bad one to whom I have to pay a price to its help / assistance.The communication is with living intelligence, if it were not living intelligence there would be no reason for me to converse with it.
That’s what I am afraid of. Is Yi a dark forse and by asking for its help we will suffer / pay a price?It is a reality that people can call on help from darker forces through certain practices and by doing that they will always suffer.
I just finished reading all the messages. Thank you all for sharing your view and opinion. It’s very much appreciated.Have you read the replies fully? We've all said we don't think I Ching is a bad entity for which there is a price to be paid. Most people probably don't think Yi is an entity as such at all but the response of the cosmos so to speak and many people think the answers come from themselves.
Everyone here has said they do not think there is harm in consulting Yi. If there is harm it is not from Yi but the way a person uses it. In my own experience the times I have harmed myself using Yi was a time when I was extremely anxious and was asking a lot and it was making my anxiety worse and it was a really good idea to put the book away and live simply in the moment. There are times where divining is not the best thing to be doing. You got 52uc recently after asking many questions about the baby. That was clear advice to stop considering the future and be still.
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).