Clarity,
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Well, we will need to define very well early and later heaven first, don't we...As an afterthought to post#28:
Thinking about it some more,
1) There are no such things as errors or mistakes, just "happy little accidents". Thank you, Bob Ross. RIP
2) I'm certain there are many insights into archetypal and shadow energies when pre-heaven concepts are added to the equation, especially when the influence of pre-heaven onto post heaven experience is taken into consideration.
This could well bring forward deeper connection and insight into the subject matter for this thread. For me, right now, I am looking to focus on staying afloat in the waves of this post heaven ocean we all swim in.
Early Heaven has I feel a sense of the nebulous about it an the only two 'solid' archetypal constructs might be Heaven and Earth. The rest, may be a bridge too far to accurately define in this netherworld.There is another way of looking at the pre-heaven and post-heaven.
Pre-heaven is the world of the mind.
Post-heaven is the world of the experience.
To be clear, by the Five Arts do you mean the 5 Phases or Elements (Wood Fire, Earth, Metal and Water)?You or @Hans_K might be able to make a more informed view than I can about the images and symbology that they each represent in relation to the Five Arts.
Yet I do not think that is what is meant by the pre-Heavenly state.Early Heaven has I feel a sense of the nebulous about it an the only two 'solid' archetypal constructs might be Heaven and Earth. The rest, may be a bridge too far to accurately define in this netherworld.
Early haven - before its manifested. Later - after its manifested.
In China and countries around it I Ching is kinda intertwined with other parts of life. Geomacy, martial arts(inner or outer), medicine(believe it or not but Traditional Chinese Medicine, what we know as acupuncture and herbal remedies actually use same elements, trigrams and ideas) and other stuff. Even cooking sometimes. All that is called Five Arts.To be clear, by the Five Arts do you mean the 5 Phases or Elements (Wood Fire, Earth, Metal and Water)?
I get that Hans. Pre-Heaven is sometimes called Ideal. Here, in this word, I've seen the concept being carried of what is existing is existing only in the imagination and perhaps this is where things are at that place of desirable or perfect balance.Yet I do not think that is what is meant by the pre-Heavenly state.
The pre-Heavenly state is essentially the state where everything is in balance, each trigram faces its opposite so there is balance.
I may not always come at these things from a purely Chinese metaphysics perspective. However, I do love to sit with the concepts, and alternative perspectives that are at play here.The arrangement on the main axes Heaven-Earth and Water and Fire, are the drivers of change (see thread All Change: Headless Dragons and Perseveringly Upright.)
From Chinese metaphysics, these are the 8 primal forces that make up everything, originating in Heaven and Earth and from this point of view there is nothing nebulous about it (which of course does not mean that you cannot experience it as nebulous).
As the pre-Heavenly state is the origin, the post Heavenly state is the effect or as Thia Viatar puts it in a previous post
This is one way of looking at it, another way is to see Post Heaven not as Chaos but as Change. After all, the King Wen arrangement of the trigrams indicates the cyclical rise and fall of Chi, the life force. So Change then becomes the default mode. When we can move with the rhythm of Change then balance is inherent. Only when we resist the rhythm of Change do things get out of balance.Once we step into Post Heaven, Chaos is the default mode and Balance is what we all strive for as we battle away against the darkness in the myriad beings and the doom carried by some of the archetypes in this dimension.
I agree that's also a way look at the nature of Post Heaven. Chaos and Change can be seen as having an equivalence. All Change can be viewed as a disturbance to an existing Comfort Zone. At the first instance of Change the Comfort Zone is thrown into Chaos. How centred or grounded we are relates to how much of an impact the Change has on us. Regaining an equilibrium may be an simple, quick process or there may be a life changing magnitude to how impactful the chaos of disturbance remains for us.This is one way of looking at it, another way is to see Post Heaven not as Chaos but as Change.
I agree, at the end of the Change process there will be a new balance. The circulation of life-force Chi during the process, though, seems to provide opportunities for many qualities of itself to be experienced.After all, the King Wen arrangement of the trigrams indicates the cyclical rise and fall of Chi, the life force. So Change then becomes the default mode. When we can move with the rhythm of Change then balance is inherent. Only when we resist the rhythm of Change do things get out of balance.
Indeed it would be. People, sometimes chose to pick a fight with their resistance, which is never a good plan. It's important to remember that Stilling, itself evokes a process that is laden with degrees of turbulence and chaos (52.2, 52.3). The energy required by different people in different life circumstances, requires that light and dark are both used in differing amounts and for different spans of time in order for the resistance to be let go of. Sometimes it may be required for the letting go to be assisted by the prudent use of a set of bolt cutters to release the chains for a full embrace to become truly expressed.So, instead of fighting against, it might be better to let go of the resistance and embrace all aspects. The Yin-Yang symbol shows that the dark and the light together create unity.
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).