Practical techniques for disengaging?

mudpie · Mar 29, 2007

ahhhhh, I thought vermouth was a rather creative solution.
as was the hammer too, but the hammer gives too much of a hangover

nooooo, august, I dont think anyone was saying you were trying to out-holy anyone, the question just invited the discussion.

a long walk has yet to fail me. you never come back the same person. Solvitor Ambulando

bruce_g · Mar 29, 2007

Listener, and let's not forget the privilege of being pot banging age.

bruce_g · Mar 29, 2007

Walking is great. Without even trying, I experience a relaxed form of hex. 56, and a nice form of 54: aware of transience. There's unexplainable magic spots along the way. There's one spot where I sense a young Indian brave, sitting on the same rock. Sometimes I say hello, sometimes I feel too foolish to acknowledge him. He isn't very moved either way. There's a small ranch up the road. The owner's Painted and Arabian geldings never fail to acknowledge us. Unfortunately, an electric fence prevents petting. About once a week I take a large bag with me, to pick up cans and bottles, thoughtless travelers threw out of their car windows. I call it "piggy trash day". I wave to everyone who drives by, and most all wave back - "Look, hon, there's that strange ole guy with his dog again." There's lots of cottontails and jackrabbits, quail, and the occasional wiley coyote. Mojo and I are one when we walk; looking in the same directions always, as though we're wired to the same remote control. The last stop on the way back is the mailbox. The two neighbor dogs, Ruby and Buzz, are always waiting by the backyard fence for their treat. By the time I'm back inside, I'm back to where I need to be.

Works for me.

hollis · Mar 29, 2007

it just must be wonderful to walk in the desert. how beautiful is the north american southwest.

hollis · Mar 29, 2007

august moon said:
I'm not uptight so much as I'm trying to cultivate some patience and to not get to het up about things, for my own sake and in order to allow the Yi or the Great Fractal to show me that indeed, things are going to work out in time. Wallowing in my doubts is not useful -- going round and round in my head is not productive.

For what it is worth, I feel that I am in the same boat. For me it is a question of faith, even though I have so little trust. But I am most willing to have it, once I have separated the chaos of fortune from my own subtle faults. Chaos, that random uprooting, and the difference between my own pride or ability to be my own worst enemy.

Hope that isnt too abstract.

Do you have something to cultivate trust in? Something there, patient, waiting, that will be there, when your tasks are done, when your time has come?

Believe ti or not, one thing that helps me to disengage is consulting the YJ, but I try not to do it too much. Try not to muddy the water.

august moon · Mar 29, 2007

hollis said:
For what it is worth, I feel that I am in the same boat. For me it is a question of faith, even though I have so little trust. But I am most willing to have it, once I have separated the chaos of fortune from my own subtle faults. Chaos, that random uprooting, and the difference between my own pride or ability to be my own worst enemy.

Hope that isnt too abstract.

Would you elaborate on this? -- it is not too abstract, rather it is thought-provoking, but some examples would be useful.

hollis said:
Do you have something to cultivate trust in? Something there, patient, waiting, that will be there, when your tasks are done, when your time has come?

I think I do, but I am not sure if it is what you mean. Would you elaborate on this as well? Thanks!

bruce_g · Mar 29, 2007

Hollis, when you zoom out far enough, the "i" becomes so small, and the "it" becomes so huge, there's nothing left to do but to trust.

bruce_g · Mar 29, 2007

That's also true if you zoom in far enough, but much harder to do.

But trust is the key; you're absolutely right.

mudpie · Mar 30, 2007

hollis said:
it just must be wonderful to walk in the desert. how beautiful is the north american southwest.

Agreed. Your description, Bruce, is so vivid that I can actually feel like I am walking with you and MOjo.

BUt wait, pot-banging age?????? cough, cough, cough. I ain't banging no pots yet, boy. Spilling a few crumbs on my blouse, and occasionally wearing sandals with socks...but not banging no pots. The sun is at the zenith.

Don't you bang no pots neither...until you're at least 75 :bows:

bruce_g · Mar 30, 2007

laughin...

Well, my daddy taught me to never ask a woman's age, so... no pots for you! Just crumbs!

For me, banging pots is the other side of long walks. Sorta balances things out. What I could never do (lord help me) is to live in the droning voice of lukewarm.

bruce_g · Mar 30, 2007

don't need to be old to bang pots..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA8wJRGBlDU&NR

hollis · Mar 30, 2007

hi august

Hi August, I will post some thoughts as soon as a little time frees up!

:bows:

Sparhawk · Mar 30, 2007

My practical way to disengage is to grab my camera gear and start shooting, sometimes for months on end...

L

hollis · Mar 31, 2007

august moon said:
Would you elaborate on this? -- it is not too abstract, rather it is thought-provoking, but some examples would be useful.

X vector Y
they get together
X says no to something to Y
Y feels rejected and gets huffy
Y goes off and cheats
X is devastated and breaks up with Y

but later, take 2:

X vector Y
they like each other
X says no to something about Y
Y feels rejected and wants to cheat
but
sees that X has a point
Y readjusts expectations
Y does not run away
X is happy
Y really like X
X still like Y
so they keep vectoring.

thats my subtle fault, feeling rejection, and then undermining the relationship.

But uber trust issues

X wants to go to Bali
Her house burns and all her money is lost, and she can never go to Bali, she has to deal with rebuilding life.

next life, take 2:

X wants to go to Bali
She has tremendous fears about it
She does every good trick in the book, including helping old dogs cross the street
She finally asks the ICHing, with great fear and trepedation
Can I go to Bali
I Ching says, yeah great, you can go to Bali!
She freaks out
asks
When can I go to Bali!!!
I Ching says, well, after you take care of some basic issues
But dont miss your chance, our opening,
So X has to take care of some details first
Cant go to Bali till December, and it is only March
X is terrified that Bali will never happen
I Ching says, it will be there when it is time, just trust.
X sighs and says, OK. I will try to trust that I will go to Bali.
Till then, I will trust the words of the I Ching, and do what I must do.
I have faith that the time will come when I can go to Bali and the house will not burn.

oh god, that is all so stupid sounding but I hope it helps clarify all the other googoo i wrote here in this thread.

august moon said:
I think I do, but I am not sure if it is what you mean. Would you elaborate on this as well? Thanks!

So basically I am hoping that I go to Bali, and have to trust that it will happen when the time is right.

Mostly my problem is laziness.

Any tactics for not being a lazy bum????? anyone?????

august moon · Mar 31, 2007

bruce_g said:
don't need to be old to bang pots..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA8wJRGBlDU&NR

WOW!!

august moon · Mar 31, 2007

hollis said:
X vector Y
they get together
X says no to something to Y
Y feels rejected and gets huffy
Y goes off and cheats
X is devastated and breaks up with Y

but later, take 2:

X vector Y
they like each other
X says no to something about Y
Y feels rejected and wants to cheat
but
sees that X has a point
Y readjusts expectations
Y does not run away
X is happy
Y really like X
X still like Y
so they keep vectoring.

thats my subtle fault, feeling rejection, and then undermining the relationship.

But uber trust issues

X wants to go to Bali
Her house burns and all her money is lost, and she can never go to Bali, she has to deal with rebuilding life.

next life, take 2:

X wants to go to Bali
She has tremendous fears about it
She does every good trick in the book, including helping old dogs cross the street
She finally asks the ICHing, with great fear and trepedation
Can I go to Bali
I Ching says, yeah great, you can go to Bali!
She freaks out
asks
When can I go to Bali!!!
I Ching says, well, after you take care of some basic issues
But dont miss your chance, our opening,
So X has to take care of some details first
Cant go to Bali till December, and it is only March
X is terrified that Bali will never happen
I Ching says, it will be there when it is time, just trust.
X sighs and says, OK. I will try to trust that I will go to Bali.
Till then, I will trust the words of the I Ching, and do what I must do.
I have faith that the time will come when I can go to Bali and the house will not burn.

oh god, that is all so stupid sounding but I hope it helps clarify all the other googoo i wrote here in this thread.

So basically I am hoping that I go to Bali, and have to trust that it will happen when the time is right.

Mostly my problem is laziness.

Any tactics for not being a lazy bum????? anyone?????

I don't know what the things are that you need to do (ducks to be put in a row) before you can go to Bali, but writing them down on a list and marking them off will give you a feeling of progress, of being on the path. Sometimes laziness responds to a written schedule, because you only have to take care of that step, not the next day's step or the next week's or the next month's or the whole shebang which can be really daunting.

Decide how much money you have to have to pull off the trip, and divide that into monthly installments. Is it possible? Get an empty wine bottle and paste a schedule on it with a line for each month and the amount you need to stash in cash in the bottle. Of course, if your house burned down, maybe you won't trust the wine bottle method...I wouldn't blame you there, but some sort of impervious container that you cannot break into without being really obvious even to yourself...

Each month stash the cash. Seeing it tangibly collect is a reinforcement of your steady progress down the path. It makes it real. You can do it!

Of course, this is not "trusting" that it's just going to "happen". Maybe I'm not spiritually evolved enough, but to me, the difference between a dream and a goal is simply a plan.
If your plan is unreasonable, then you are setting yourself up to sabotage it. You do have to trust yourself to stick to the plan. If you have to take more time to get the funds together because you haven't got the spare income to stash, then so be it. The weather will be the same. The weather in Indonesia is described in as composed of two seasons: the hot season and the wet season. The hot season is a little bit hotter than it is wet. The wet season is a little bit wetter than it is hot. :rofl:

I used to own a travel agency specializing in cheap tickets to Asia...

mudpie · Apr 1, 2007

In Bali, I believe laziness is an esteemed way of life.

I suggest that you find yourself a drum, one like the kids are beating in that great youtube video, and every night beat out a balinese rythym and send your love out to Bali like a huge white flower-strewn carpet. Tuck a flower behind your ear, and beat on that drum as you become ONE with your desire for being in Bali . You'll be in Bali before too long.

mudpie · Apr 1, 2007

p.s. that's called 'taking the high road'....

bruce_g · Apr 1, 2007

(in deep TV announcer voice) Tune in again next season, to find out if X sabotages her opportunity to live her dream and go to Bali. And, will Y go with her, or prevent her from going? (dramatic music crescendo)…. and, CUT to commercial.

Sorta agree with August. A dream without a plan is just a dream, but a plan without a dream is just a plan.

hollis · Apr 1, 2007

drumming is a great idea! so is planning! no to sabotage! okay guys, i'm on it. love and thanks!

rosada · Apr 1, 2007

More ideas on how to manefest Bali..

Put up a map of Bali in the West and Northwest walls of your house (feng shui).

Mark off the dates on your calendar. Make plans accordingly, as in, "I can't have a doctor's appointment then as that's the week I'll be in Bali."

Start collecting small items the people in Bali would like to have, i.e. tubes of lipstick, American t-shirts, etc. As you have material objects that are intended for Bali, you will find they strengthen the magnetic pull and you will be drawn to Bali not only by your desire to go there but also by Bali's desire to have the gifts you'll bring.

Trojina · Apr 1, 2007

But if you believe global warming is caused by fuel emissions our earth would prefer it if you did not go to Bali - you will be the same person in Bali as you are here. Whatever your're looking for you don't need to go to Bali to get it :mischief:

Tohpol · Apr 1, 2007

trojan said:
But if you believe global warming is caused by fuel emissions our earth would prefer it if you did not go to Bali - you will be the same person in Bali as you are here. Whatever your're looking for you don't need to go to Bali to get it

Yes I agree. I'm beginning to see that anticipating an event or a certain outcome is tanatamount to forcing it into a narrow possibility when there might be the REAL avenue for positive change or a BETTER possibility around the corner. Perhaps this is where faith and trust in the Dao, or Universe comes into play. Being playful with our destiny but not complacent. Extremely difficult sometimes, but it may just mean we have to quietly let things build until we feel its time to grasp that opportunity and where we have the requisite energy to do it justice. The IC seems really big on this. Needing, pleading and hoping something will be so may well be going against the creativity of the moment that accumulates the required window of opportunity.

That harks back to a post someone mentioned about "The Secret" (was it Hilary?) which I think is the worst example of "create your own reality" meme. As one writer put:

"Imagine telling twelve year-old girls in Chinese sweatshops - the ones who work sixteen hours a day for pennies, live in squalor, may get raped at any moment, and sometimes are found dead at the ripe old age of twenty at their sewing machines from working themselves to death - that their situation is the product of their thoughts."

topal

mudpie · Apr 1, 2007

"Imagine telling twelve year-old girls in Chinese sweatshops - the ones who work sixteen hours a day for pennies, live in squalor, may get raped at any moment, and sometimes are found dead at the ripe old age of twenty at their sewing machines from working themselves to death - that their situation is the product of their thoughts."

it would depend on if they could hear you/understand...and also circumstances are a product of consciousness ..a broader term than 'thoughts' altho same thing ultimately.

what is the alternative...to pity them and say "OH my... I guess God doesnt like you, tough luck, bad karma..." consciousness creates reality..(thats what karma is) .....there is no capricious God , granting favors to some and withholding from others.
Buddha had compassion for the suffering, and we can as well, but that is different from pity

august moon · Apr 1, 2007

topal said:
Yes I agree. I'm beginning to see that anticipating an event or a certain outcome is tanatamount to forcing it into a narrow possibility when there might be the REAL avenue for positive change or a BETTER possibility around the corner. Perhaps this is where faith and trust in the Dao, or Universe comes into play. Being playful with our destiny but not complacent. Extremely difficult sometimes, but it may just mean we have to quietly let things build until we feel its time to grasp that opportunity and where we have the requisite energy to do it justice. The IC seems really big on this. Needing, pleading and hoping something will be so may well be going against the creativity of the moment that accumulates the required window of opportunity.

That harks back to a post someone mentioned about "The Secret" (was it Hilary?) which I think is the worst example of "create your own reality" meme. As one writer put:

"Imagine telling twelve year-old girls in Chinese sweatshops - the ones who work sixteen hours a day for pennies, live in squalor, may get raped at any moment, and sometimes are found dead at the ripe old age of twenty at their sewing machines from working themselves to death - that their situation is the product of their thoughts."

topal

That is precisely the very basis of the caste system in India, a massive, centuries-old good ol' boy network keeping billions of people "in their place."

Tohpol · Apr 1, 2007

listener said:
"Imagine telling twelve year-old girls in Chinese sweatshops - the ones who work sixteen hours a day for pennies, live in squalor, may get raped at any moment, and sometimes are found dead at the ripe old age of twenty at their sewing machines from working themselves to death - that their situation is the product of their thoughts."

it would depend on if they could hear you/understand...and also circumstances are a product of consciousness ..a broader term than 'thoughts' altho same thing ultimately.

what is the alternative...to pity them and say "OH my... I guess God doesnt like you, tough luck, bad karma..." consciousness creates reality..(thats what karma is) .....there is no capricious God , granting favors to some and withholding from others.
Buddha had compassion for the suffering, and we can as well, but that is different from pity

Completely agree. My point is exactly that, we can have compassion and action together. No one needs pity. New money making schemes like "The Secret" tend to bypass reality in favour of focusing on exclusive desires at the expense of that compassion. It's the same kind of feverish, slick, consumerism given a spiritual gloss. i.e. "Great! I can have it in the shortest possible time! "Buy this DVD and you can have it all!" The core marketing ethos derives from the same incentive to consume.

I think consciousness in itself, doesn't create reality - consciousness IS reality, and matter IS consciousness so its kind of a cross-conceptualisation. But the quality of that consciousness depends on what we DO with the choices presented to us, that depends on our awareness and which in turn, stems from how close to an objective reality we are in touch with.

In other words, if we are choosing merely to force into existence what we desire it is actually quite materialistic and must go against the process of exchange/networking and finding the root causative reasons for the way things are. But that requires effort for the good of all, rather than our own egos and I guess collectively we aren't there yet.

topal

getojack · Apr 1, 2007

topal said:
That harks back to a post someone mentioned about "The Secret" (was it Hilary?) which I think is the worst example of "create your own reality" meme.

Yes, it was Hilary. She also said that unless you've been living under a rock, you've heard about it. I guess I've been living under a rock because the first I heard about it was here. But back to the point, if I could create my own reality, I think I would make pizza grow on trees.

I think it all depends on what you mean by making your own reality. I have no doubt that people create all kinds of problems for themselves based on unreal perceptions about the world. I've seen it in myself and others too often not to realize that.

As for being able to create pizza trees, that's just wishful thinking.

Sparhawk · Apr 1, 2007

getojack said:
As for being able to create pizza trees, that's just wishful thinking.

Are you a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle??

L

Trojina · Apr 1, 2007

I never heard of The Secret either so also must be living under rock. I assume its yet another 'you can create your own reality' tome ? They keep being churned out as if this is a new idea.

Well if we are one another, our roots so connected under the surface I reckon we go a pretty long way to create one anothers reality also.

august moon · Apr 1, 2007

Another Rock Dweller here. It may be a larger community under here in the Unenlightenment than market studies previously estimated... :rofl:

Practical techniques for disengaging?

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One of those men your mother warned you about...

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One of those men your mother warned you about...

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