43. Kuai / Break-through (Resoluteness)

rosada · Jun 29, 2008

This isn't much of an example but for what it's worth..
While reviewing this line here I suddenly remembered the rice I had cooking on the stove in a METAL pot. With a small cry of "Oops!" I got to it just as the bottom was beginning to burn. Another minute and there would have been a problem but all is well.

charly · Jun 29, 2008

rosada said:
43.2 ... A cry of alarm. Arms at evening and at night. Fear nothing.

Rosada:

Here the chinese text:

惕號。莫夜有戎。勿恤。

Word by word meanings,in upprcase W/B:

惕 li4: fearful / ALARM
號 hao4: roar / cry // sign / signal / password (military) / CRY
莫 mo4: none / no one / EVENING [?]
夜 ye4: night / NIGHT
有 you3: to have / there is / there are / ...
戎 rong2: war / warfare / military affairs / weapons / ARMS
勿 wu4: do not / NOTHING
恤 xu4: to worry / to suffer / FEAR

Beware but do not fear. Maybe you think that nobody likes to fight in the night, but suprise attacks exist. Better be atent to the signs.

號 hao4: is a loud cry. The traditional character is suggestive, has a TIGER component > ROAR. Some variants of small seal character seems to have a tiger with his head, skind and claws over a man (two legs) > a SHAMAN.

Yours,

Charly

rosada · Jun 30, 2008

Thanks Charly. I really get a lot out of these one word, heart of the matter, translations.

Another small example or 43.2 changing to 49. Revolution.: Yesterday I was directing our driver from the back MIDDLE seat of the car. I said "Go right" but he turned left. I gave a "Cry of alarm" and he turned the car around.

From these experiences I now think of 43.2 as advising one to stay alert, stay close to the situation, something will require you to give a wake up call, and things that go wrong can be turned around with ease.

rosada · Jun 30, 2008

43.3
Nine in the third place.
To be powerful in the cheekbones
Brings misfortune.
The superior man is firmly resolved.
He walks alone and is caught in the rain.
He is bespattered,
And people murmur against him.
No blame.

Here we have man in an ambiguous situation. While all others are engaged in a resolute fight against all that is inferior, he alone has a certain relationship with an inferior man. If he were to show strength outwardly and turn against this man before the time is ripe, he would only endanger the entire situation, because the inferior man would too quickly have recourse to countermeasures.The task of the superior man becomes extremely difficult here. He must be firmly resolved within himself and, while maintaining association with the inferior man, avoid any participation in his vileness. He will of course be misjudged. It will be thought that he belongs to the party of the inferior man. He will be lonely because no one will understand him. His relations with the inferior man will sully him in the eyes of the multitude, and they will turn against him, grumbling. But he can endure this lack of appreciation and makes no mistake, because he remains true to himself.
-Wilhelm

charly · Jul 1, 2008

rosada said:
43.3
... he alone has a certain relationship with an inferior man... He must be firmly resolved within himself and, while maintaining association with the inferior man, avoid any participation in his vileness. He will of course be misjudged. It will be thought that he belongs to the party of the inferior man. He will be lonely because no one will understand him. His relations with the inferior man will sully him in the eyes of the multitude...

Rosada:

I believe that «poweful at the cheeckbone» (1), maybe better «power at the jaw», means:

a stubborn, obstinate person
a person with ease to speak (move the jaws), a charismatic leader
a person who lies on appearances.

... maybe all at the same time, but without wiseness, without awareness of the context, tha's why he ends badly while the Noble Young (2) ends without blame.

I don't believe in Wilhelm's commentary but it reminds me the personnality of Il Duce and his relationship with the King of Italy.

Mussolini was an obstinate person who likes to live dangerously (3) and ends hanging from the feet at Piazzale Loreto while the King that supported him with low profile only lost his crown.

I have read some translations as «wounded at the cheeckbone», meaning the person who gets the slaps.

I go to post the chinese text assap.

Yours,

Charly

_____________________
(1) «Jetón» big face. «Caradura» hard face.
(2) JunZi, not at all «Superior Man».
(3) «vivere pericolosamente».

charly · Jul 1, 2008

rosada said:
43.3
...
To be powerful in the cheekbones
Brings misfortune.
The superior man is firmly resolved.
He walks alone and is caught in the rain.
He is bespattered,
And people murmur against him.
No blame.
...

Chinese character, pinyin, english, W/B (uppercase) text:

壯 zhuang4 strong / robust / powerful / [TO BE] POWERFUL
于 yu2 at / to / IN
頄 qiu2 cheekbone / [THE] CHECKBONES

有 you3 to have / there is / there are / BRINGS
凶 xiong1 fierce / terrible / ominous / misfortune / MISFORTUNE

君 jun1 noble / ruler / SUPERIOR
子 zi3 child / son / egg / little / MAN
夬 guai4 fork // to fork / separate // decisive / [IS] FIRMLY
夬 guai4 fork // to fork / separate // decisive / RESOLVED

獨 du2 alone / independent / only / ALONE
行 xing2 to move / to travel / to act / to behave / [HE] WALKS
遇 yu4 to meet with / [AND IS] COUGHT
雨 yu3 rain / [BY] RAIN

若 ruo4 to seem / like / as / if / [HE] IS
濡 ru2 to moisten / wet / BESPATTERED
有 you3 to have / there is / there are [...] ???
慍 yun4: indignant / feel hurt [AN PEOPLE MURMURE AGAINST HIM] !!!

无 wu2 without / not / no / avoid / NO
咎 jiu4 blame / mistake / wrong / BLAME

I wonder from where come people who are murmuring.

A more direct rendering:

Powerful at checkbones has misfortune.
Noble Young [is] strongly determined.
[His] lonely behavior meets rain, as wet, [he] gets upset.
No wrong.

This under the supposition that reduplicacion of GUAI must be translated as retaining the same sense as adverb + adjective.

But in chinese this is not always the case, sometimes reduplicated word mean something quite different.

And if GUAI-GUAI was an onomatopoeia? QUACK-QUACK, the cry of the duck (1)

Powerful-at-Checkbones has misfortune.
Noble-Young, quack-quack,
[His] lonely behavior meets rain, as wet, [he] gets upset.
No wrong.

Opposition and correlation are the two main resources of figurative speech in the YI, if QUACK-QUACK means to fear, here we have an opposition:

Two cases of how to behave:

the way of the stubborn → goes to end badly
the way of the JunZi → goes to end without blame

Even more, the way of the JunZi:

although can be saw as fear: quack-quack
is autonomous: lonely behavior
and get results: meets with rain
paying the inherent costs: getting wet, getting upset
ends without blame

Two characters, Powerful-Cheeckbone use to be impulsive, promiscuous, arrogant, but in times of difficulty they can be cought running away. Quack-Quack looks tranquil but are autonomous, loyal in his relations, guided by a sense of justice and possibility, although not always winners, they end without blame.

Yours,

Charly

______________________
(1) JunZi not only makes QUACK-QUACK [夬夬]:

At H.1 JunZi all the day makes QUIAN-QUIAN [乾乾]
At H.15 JunZi also makes QUIAN-QUIAN [謙謙]

(2)Obtaining rain and geting wet + upset is obviously metaphoric, in my country is said: «el que quiera celeste que le cueste y el que quiera pescado que se moje el culo» = «the one wanting pale-blue that it costs to him and that the one loving fish that gets wet his bottom». All is paid.

rosada · Jul 3, 2008

43.3 cont.

The superior man is resolutely resolved. Ultimately this is not a mistake.

Ch'ien is the head. The third place is at the top of this trigram, hence the image of the CHEEKBONES. This line belongs to the strong primary trigram Ch'ien, hence the redoubled of the lower nuclear trigram Ch'ien and also stands in the middle of the lower nuclear trigram Ch'ien, hence the redoubled RESOLUTION. It is SOLITARY because it alone is in the relationship of correspondence to the dark line at the top. Tui, as water suggests the idea of RAIN BESPATTERING the line. The STRENGTH OF ITS NATURE PROTECTS IT FROM CONTAMINATION by the dark line above, hence despite evil appearances there is no mistake.
-Wilhelm

Sooo..
Cheekbones
strong resolution
solitary
rain bespattering
and strength of its nature protecting it from contamination.

Changes to 58. Something cheerful results?

rosada · Jul 4, 2008

43.4
Nine in the fourth place means:

There is no skin on his thighs,
And walking comes hard.
If a man were to let himself be led like a sheep,
Remorse would disappear.
But if these words are heard
They will not be believed.

jilt · Jul 4, 2008

well, does anyone dare to speak now with this 4th line?
anyway, I think, strange as it may seem, that 43 is all about double standarts, a situation that evokes corruption. The upper trigram is collecting, the inner is following the way of heaven. But now the place of the minister comes into doubt because of the character of the time: following the ruler keeps in pace with collecting, following the upward pushing yangs will de-attach him/her from the ruler, but also resolve the corruption that came into being with the collecting. That is the indesiciveness is a conflict of loyalty: to the ruler or to good gouvernment (or houskeeping).
The only thing you can do in this case is following your heart: concetrate on it, bring your mind in your heart. What does it say?

getojack · Jul 4, 2008

rosada said:
43.4
Nine in the fourth place means:

There is no skin on his thighs,
And walking comes hard.
If a man were to let himself be led like a sheep,
Remorse would disappear.
But if these words are heard
They will not be believed.

In Chinese, the first line is closer to "No skin on his butt"

(Believe it or not

)

jilt · Jul 4, 2008

getojack said:
In Chinese, the first line is closer to "No skin on his butt"

(Believe it or not )

you mean that this line is torn between a beating on his/her butt and listening to the heart?
that is exactly that conflict of loyalties. Line 3 doesn't have that conflict, in words and appearances it is with the ruling class, but in mind (inner trigram) with the removal of the double standart. Here the situation (line 4) is the reverse.

rosada · Jul 4, 2008

Here a man is suffering from inner restlessness and cannot abide in his place. He would like to push forward under any circumstances, but encounters insuperable obstacles. Thus his situation entails INNER CONFLICT. This is due to the OBSTINACY with which he enforces his will. If he would desist from this obstinacy, everything would go well. But this advice, like so much other good counsel, will be ignored. For obstinacy makes a man unable to hear, for all that he has ears.

"Walking comes hard." The place is not the appropriate one.
"If these words are heard they will not be believed."
There is no clear comprehension.

This line is the lowest place of the upper trigram, hence the image of the thighs. The fact that the line is hindered in its forward push by the strong line in the fifth place suggests the idea that walking is impossible. A symbol of Tui is the sheep, hence the advice is to let oneself be led like a sheep. As the line changes, the upper trigram will turn into the trigram K'an, which means ear; but since the line is neither correct nor in its proper place, it pays no heed to what is said.
-Wilhelm

jilt · Jul 5, 2008

yes, you do clear things up, Rosada.
But I still think the breaking trough in this hex. in human life is manifested in the change of loyalties, in line 3 there is secret loyalty to the yang forces and lipservice to the still ruling party, and line 4 has the reversed situation, you'r with the ruling party and don't want to see that's a fast changing situation. The accompanying behaviour is seen in your/wilhelm's description above.
The overall movement of the hex. is upward, all yang pushing up, to throw out the yin. But when you devide it, make the dichotomy (divide and rule) in upper and inner, you see the inner all yang moving up, the lake seeping down, two opposing forces. The 3rd anf 4th line are experiencing the full force of the process from breaking through but have different positions in it.
In the wilhelm explanation you see a change of interpretations: normally the cheeckbones would be on the 5th or 6th place, but here they are on 3. Normally the thighs would be on 3, but here on the place of the heart. So, as you see there can be no clear comprehension, even the bodyparts are in interpretation on the wrong place. You could say that this line is confusing heart and genitals, doesn't know which force to follow.
In 44.3 the tighs are on the right place again, and the advice is given not to follow your genitals (or to keep it a secret) line 4 is in that case about an empty heart (not in philosophical sense, but in love poetry sense).

this is difficult stuff

rosada · Jul 6, 2008

Yes, jilt, I totally agree with you. This is a very confusing hexagram. Or at least it is for me right now. I haven't caught the real sence of it. I usually can see a parallel in my personal life to the I Ching line we are studying and my own life has been very confused just now too. Many mixed blessings, perhaps the manifestation of the mixed loyalties of 43.
By the way, I can't take any credit for my previous post. That was all Wilhelm. I can't even say I understood it!

rosada · Jul 6, 2008

43.5

0 Nine in the fifth place means:
In dealing with weeds,
Firm resolution is necessary.
Walking in the middle remains free of blame.

rosada · Jul 6, 2008

Okay, I'm starting to get a sense of 43. I think it's about negotiating. In 41. Decrease and 42. Increase we were presented with ideas about simplifying one's life and then about being able to develope the talents God gave us with all sorts of encouragement to share thrown in. But are we always supposed to be sharing? What about when one is feeling taken advantage of? To agree to pay a bill just to avoid a scene is not sharing, it's cowardice. Sometimes we must speak up, question authority! Yet the I Ching understands to have to confront someone is always a bit scary : "One must resolutely make the matter known in the court of the king. It must be announced truthfully. Danger." Furthermore, people whom we might like to protect from knowing there is a problem must also be told: "It is necessary to notify one's own city. " At this negotiating stage we are cautioned, "It does not further to resort to arms," but rather to solve the problem, "to undertake something." Happily we are encouraged that we have what it takes to solve the problem if we are able to recognize the riches we have been given are to be used for just this purpose, "The superior man dispenses riches downward and refrains from resting on his virtue."

43.1
Mighty in the forward striding toes.
When one goes and is not equal to the task,
One makes a mistake.

At first we may go about things wrong, perhaps thinking we already know what must be done. But this is a situation that requires negotiating. Thus going forward energetically one is not equal to the task and makes a mistake.

43.2
A cry of alarm. Arms in the evening and at night.
Fear nothing.

Alerted this may be a more tricky situation than we realized, we are advised to gather the facts. Again we are assured there is nothing to be feared.

43.3
To be powerful in the cheekbones brings misfortune. To rant and rave makes a problem bigger than it needs to be. Remember the cop is just doing his job. The problem is only a problem because we think it is. (I no longer believe this. See revised interpretation below.)

43.4
If we could just have faith that everything will work itself out we could probably get through this test a lot easier. But we wont believe that until after we've gotten through it.

43.5
In dealing with weeds,
Firm resolution is necessary.
Walking in the middle
Remains free of blame.

Okay, weed happens. We just have to walk/talk through the situation with out casting blame, and lo, problem resolved.

43.6
No cry.
In the end misfortune comes.

We haven't talked about this line yet, but I think it may be a warning that even though we had the courage to speak up a little bit, we might not have really resolved the situation completely. Like when you speak up and ask someone to pay their part of the lunch bill and they say, "Certainly, let's split it," still leaving you paying more than your share. At 43.6 we are warned the weeds will grow back.

Trojina · Jul 6, 2008

Re 43.3 I recall Hilary saying somewhere I think that 43.3 can refer to a situation where someone is kind of really putting on a front, like a stony face, setting their face, trying not to show their feelings - as in setting ones jaw when determined and believing everyone is against you. Its not necessarily that anyone is against you , but you feel that is the stance you have to take, defensive, quite hard, to get through the difficulty.

If I imagined that and Hilary didn't say anything like that....er someone else did, all i know is it wasn't my idea and i thought it an interesting take on 43.3

rosada · Jul 6, 2008

Oh yes, thank you trojan, that interpretation is a much better fit. Now I'm seeing 43.3 as the line indicating the actual negotiating:
"To be powerful in the cheekbones brings misfortune."
To over state one's case or be rude is not helpful to resolving the issue.
"The superior man is firmly resolved."
Yet one must not be whimpy.
"He walks alone and is caught in the rain.
He is bespattered,
And people murmur against him.
No blame."
I think it's interesting that 43.3 is the top line of the Ch'ien trigram. Ch'ien is all about asserting one's own will and does not have any yin lines to denote receptivity. So there is a sense of not being able to get through to the other party and the other party not being able to get through to us. Perhaps this indicates all the gossip (or our own fears) chattering away before negotiating begins, before we know the otherside's point of view, when we are still "walking alone", before we know how the otherside will react. When the line changes, becomes yin, receptive, Ch'ien becomes Tui and the hexagram becomes 58, the image of joyful discussion.

Hmmm...well to revise my former post I now see 43 as..
43. When things have gone too far, "after a long accumulation of tension", there is a need to negotiate.
1. When an issue needs to be negotiated, it is important not to start off too assertively. Beware of stepping on "toes" because your inner understanding does not match, "equal", the outer situation.
2. Speak up. No need to be anxious or upset, just be prepared, have your facts straight.
3. Even being willing to negotiate may cause some people to question your loyalty, but being a bully will cause misfortune.
4. One would like to just solve the situation according to one's own understanding, but this is very hard to do. Only when we learn the other person's point of view can the misunderstanding be resolved, letting higher mind enter and guide both parties, but this is not believed until it happens.
5. The actual negotiation. Being firm but reasonable will lead to a blameless resolution.
6. You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate and if you say nothing, you get nothing.

rosada · Jul 7, 2008

43.6
# Six at the top means:
No cry.
In the end misfortune comes.

Victory seems to have been achieved. There remains merely a remnant of the evil resolutely to be eradicated as the time demands. Everything looks easy, Just there, however, lies the danger. If we are not on our guard, evil will succeed in escaping by means of concealment, and when it has eluded us a new misfortune will develope from the remaining seeds, for evil does not die easily. So too in dealing with the evil in one's own character, one must go to work with thoroughness. If out of carelessness anything were to be overlooked, new evil would arise from it.

The misfortune of not crying out should in the end not be allowed to persist.

This line is the representation of the evil that is to be rooted out.
The undertaking requires caution. It appears easy, because there are five strong lines against only one weak line; but the dark nature of the present line suggests that it knows how to silence those who would raise the warning. However, its kind must not be tolerated, otherwise it is to be feared that from the neglected solitary yin line, evil will sprout forth as from a seed.
- Wilhelm

rosada · Jul 7, 2008

It occurs to me that perhaps the reason this hexagram feels so confusing with good and bad all mixed in together is because that is how life is before we negotiate for what we want. Often something that appears bad at first can be recognized as having something important good in it.

heylise · Jul 7, 2008

In China the flooding of the Yellow River was a big issue. It happend many times, and millions drowned.
It has a habit of taking the loose soil along and then depositing it elsewhere, that way making a kind of dikes along its borders. Now and then the water would be so high or so wild, that these dikes broke through. With disastrous result.

In the time of Yu the Great one of this floods happened. Or maybe more than one. He got everyone together to get the water away again. There was not that much land, and lots of people even back then, so they needed the land. And most of all, they did not want to get drowned. He dug canals, and worked so hard that he ruined his own health. He could hardly walk anymore.

I think hexagram 8 is about the organization of conquering the flood, getting everyone to assist. And 43 about the dike breaking through. And by extension about everything which can be compared/connected in one way or another to a breakthrough and everything which happens then.

It has to be dealt with from out a central place, not everyone doing something at random.
"One must resolutely make the matter known
At the court of the king.
It must be announced truthfully. Danger.
It's necessary to notify one's own city.
It doesn't further to resort to arms.
It furthers one to undertake something."

Many people hated him for what he did, he had to reorganize the distribution of the fields, often dig right through properties in order to make the water flow away again, and China has a history of not reckoning that much with people's rights. So they cursed him, even though he had worked so much himself as well
"To be powerful in the cheekbones
Brings misfortune.
The superior man is firmly resolved.
He walks alone and is caught in the rain.
He's bespattered,
And people murmur against him.
No blame."

Yu had trouble walking
"There's no skin on his thighs,
And walking comes hard.
If a man were to let himself be led like a sheep,
Remorse would disappear.
But if these words are heard
They won't be believed."
Goats (sheep and goat is the same character) are very handy to hold on to if you have trouble walking. They are easy to tame, and they have nice handles on their heads. So I think he rather was 'led by a goat' than like one.
I don't think there is a connection between that and 'remorse would disappear', rather that it belongs to the next sentence: remorse will disappear but nobody can believe that.

When you see the river is rising and you don't warn anyone..
"No cry.
In the end misfortune comes."

LiSe

rosada · Jul 7, 2008

Wow, heylise, this is wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing!:bows:

meng · Jul 7, 2008

Awesome. Thanks, Lise.

charly · Jul 8, 2008

heylise said:
In China the flooding of the Yellow River was a big issue...
And 43 about the dike breaking through. And by extension about everything which can be compared/connected in one way or another to a breakthrough and everything which happens then ...

... no skin on his thighs, (1)
... walking comes hard.
... led like a sheep,
... Remorse would disappear.
... words are heard
... not ...believed

Goats (sheep and goat is the same character) ... they have nice handles ... (2)
So I think he rather was 'led by a goat' than like one.
...

LiSe:

Maybe should you agree with the following simplified version?

[COMING LIKE A FLOOD]

naked, (3)
hardly moving, (4)
lamb or sheep driven,
forgetting remorses,
hearing unbelievable words!

I always wondered what «skinless buttocks» meant:

«naked» here makes sense, but there are another possibilities.
«punisshed» > «bandit» > «deserter»
«hairy buttocks» = «brave»(5) > «hairless buttocks» > «coward, not brave»
«beardless» / «hairless» > applied to negroid / mongoloid people (racial prejudice?)
«barbarian» / «shepherd» (cultural prejudice from the cowherd point of view?)
maybe only a personal name

Yours,

Charly

___________________
(1) maybe buttocks is more accurate
(2) goat, sheep , lamb, billy, ram
(3) loincloth, a minimalist dress was anciently a skin of animal covering the buttocks, then skinless buttocks = naked
(4) also difficultly moving / cautiously moving
(5) «black buttocks», I believe that among ancient greecks

jilt · Jul 8, 2008

Lise, you give a lot of clarity with those breaking levies. But somehow there should be water and mountain, so hex 4 or 39 (water inside, dike outside?) in the explanation. Here, in 43, a lot of inspiration is pushing a stagnant lake away?
Anyway, your metaphor makes a lot of sense, especially if you take the opposite hex 23 in consideration. When following the lines as we did it lookes like the process of 23. Over there eroding forces, here building forces?
Here resolute action removes corruption, like a flood. In 23 erosion takes over, like an avalache? Here 5 yangs push out a yin, there 5 ying erode (let fall) a yang. The energies are very different and so are the directions from 23 and 43.

More imaginable would be, considereing the energies, that a group of ruling people have been neglecting something (e.g. levies) en are collecting the the resources for their own, not spreading the wealth. Comes in another group/person that roots out the neglect and starts to redistribute the resources.
So we must be talking about a flood of love, inspiration, creativity, goodness, god, prana, chi. Just listen to the silencing voices of the 6th line: nonsense, can't be true, impossible, think about the structure of society, you can't rule with love alone, we don't have the structure to support your plans, in our organization is a strict protocol for creative processes, things have always been done this way, that's tradition, we have families to feed, do as the Joneses do, etc.
:bows:

maremaria · Jul 8, 2008

LiSe, how interesting !!! thanks for this

Maria

heylise · Jul 8, 2008

Thanks everyone for your nice remarks. Me glowing here with pride!

Jilt, I think it is totally legitimate to derive lots of meanings from the original simple image. A very real breakthrough which drowns people can be used as image for many other things wich give a similar feeling. Something huge coming over you, or a breakthrough of a stagnation, or someone speaking up against an intolerable situation. Or the examples you give.

But a simple straightforward image which everyone can easily recognize does give the room for those other meanings. As soon as you refine the meaning, it also gets more narrow. After all every hexagram is 1/64 of universe, it has to have lots of meanings hidden in it. Every question brings up one of those meanings.

I don't see why it HAS to have mountain and water. It is the whole situation of the breakthrough, not only the elements as matter. Besides, it has lake, a body of water. But inside this water is the power of heaven, too big for a calm lake. When your mind is like a lake, but your heart like the power of hex.1, wouldn't that break through your calm outside one day? And when that happens, you need the mental 1-powers of a man like Yu to keep your sanity. I think heaven symbolizes both the power of the water and the power you need to solve it.

Will answer Charly soon too.

LiSe

jilt · Jul 8, 2008

thanks Lise for answering.

yes, i do think it is fully legitimate to derive lots of meaning from an hexageam, and i love your works. Explaining and interpreting is a creative process and every stap we take in it adds to the life of the iching. And your steps made me musing around about the energies involved.
No, indeed there doesn't HAVE to be those other trigrams involved, again I was musing around, considering other possibilities. And I because I am involved in talk about the I -something I haven't been doing for a long time- many things come together in an almost flooding way. e.g. I never considered the contrasted meaning with 23, and now I realize how important that is in this case. (Taking again 23 and 43, 23 would mean corruption or erosion taking over and 46 corruption or erosion rooted out.
Indeed Yu did the 43 thing. no doubt about that.

And Charly, i did't want to say something about your wonderfull reply to Lise because it was adressed to Lise. But very fine and inspiring remarks, fun to consider.

heylise · Jul 8, 2008

Charly
I have in my own translation http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/hex_33-48/hex_e_43.htm
The buttocks without skin. One moves poorly now, leading a goat. Regret goes away. Hearing the words, no belief.
So I agree with most of what you suggest. Some very interesting meanings among the ones you found. Thanks!

Jilt, I like the connection of a hexagram with its ‘opposite’, or rather complementary hexagram. Every yang line to yin and vv. Very often it gives a lot more insight in both.

From this book (I didn’t find it in the book, Google did when I searched for the “gait of Yu”)

.........
Among all of the early rituals that shamans performed, rituals to summon rain were the most important and most coveted for proving a shaman's power. The Han dynasty lexicon, Shuowen jiezi, defines the shaman (wu) as a priest or invoker, who is female, and also dances for rain with two sleeves raised in dance posture. Explanations about the importance of rain dances and flood control in Chinese shamanism often include a reference to the myth of Yu, the flood controller and sage king, and King Tang. After five years of flooding and severe famine, Yu exhausted himself while he was trying to stop a raging flood. An illness following his successful efforts crippled him, and for the rest of his life Yu walked with a limp that history records as the gait of yu, or the shaman's gait. The shaman's gait became the name of a dance performed by Daoist adepts in later Daoist religion.
And:
In the Zhuangzi, shamans named wu are not depicted favorably, and are instead portrayed as charlatans who fool people into believing they can divine the future, and as outdated practitioners of cruel sacrificial rituals. These individuals have many of the traits of shamans: They are able to fly and ride on the clouds and mist, they enter trances, and they are masters of fire and the other natural elements. They are recognisable by their names (the true man, the daemonic man, the perfect man, the sage, the nameless man) and by their unusual appearances (hunched backs and skinny necks). These individuals become shaman-like individuals through experiences such as the one had by Ziqi of the south wall: His breathing changed, his body seemed like a tree that had withered, and his mind seemed like ashes. Master Yu is an example of an ideal human being who acquired his unusual appearance - becoming a hunchback - during illness.

And finally something totally different, found it somewhere else:
F. Fiedeler comments: " to show one's flesh and lead a sheep" is an expression known in the historic Chronicle `Zhuochuan` meaning to subordinate in order not to face the worst. The sheep was known as a lucky animal.
..(and a great gift for buttering someone up. Showing your butt might be similar to kissing his ass. This comment is not from Fiedeler.)
It might be that the expression comes from the Yi instead of the sentence in the Yi having this meaning.

LiSe (doesn't look as if the picture will show - seems never to work for me - but it does have a link to Amazon)

meng · Jul 8, 2008

"Buttocks without skin" sounds as though Yu literally worked his ass off.

43. Kuai / Break-through (Resoluteness)

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