1.1.6 The Dragon is hidden / the Dragon is exceeding

[Samgirl]

I was wondering your take on this. In my opinion, line 1 is talking about dormant energies and line 6 mentions going too far, what is also a theme on hexagram 28.

If we talk about feelings, for example, and just for the position of the lines, would this represent that what we feel is creative energy (Hex.1) still dormant, that because is kept hidden exceeds itself? I am picturing hexagram 28 with the heavy weight in the middle that could collapse at any moment...

How would you see this oracle?

 

[dobro p]

Two things. First, when you draw Hex 1 (or any hexagram) it includes feelings but isn't by any means restricted to feelings. Feelings are part of a situation, and the Yi images situations on the archetypal level. I'd say that's true even if the question you've asked is about feelings exclusively. So yeah, I think you're coming to terms with the meaning of 1.1 okay, but I wouldn't limit it to the emotional part of the situation only.

Second, sometimes I'm tempted to see a special meaning in the consultation when you draw the first and sixth lines of a hex.

 

[fkegan]

Hexagram One The Creative, Heaven or Sunshine. The first and 6th lines are transitional. The first from prior conditions, the 6th to subsequent conditions. In simplest form, hex 1 refers to the 6 double-hours of the sundial with first line being before dawn, 6th line sunset.

In any context the oracle 1.1,6>>28 is about a process which has all its focus elsewhere, not in the active here-and-now which is moving toward the situation where process or energy is cut off from both its roots and its follow through, leaving no option except to tear itself apart inside or fall from its own weight. In general this suggests the Yi oracle describes burning your bridges both behind you and in front of you thus trapping yourself within yourself to deal with your internal issues.

Frank

 

[Samgirl]

Two things. First, when you draw Hex 1 (or any hexagram) it includes feelings but isn't by any means restricted to feelings. Feelings are part of a situation, and the Yi images situations on the archetypal level. I'd say that's true even if the question you've asked is about feelings exclusively. So yeah, I think you're coming to terms with the meaning of 1.1 okay, but I wouldn't limit it to the emotional part of the situation only.

Second, sometimes I'm tempted to see a special meaning in the consultation when you draw the first and sixth lines of a hex.

Thank you, Dobro. I would be interested if possible in reading your thoughts about the special meaning you see for the lines 1 and 6, as well as a bit more about your explanation about this particular case, beyond the emotional level. Thank you again.

 

[Samgirl]

In general this suggests the Yi oracle describes burning your bridges both behind you and in front of you thus trapping yourself within yourself to deal with your internal issues.

Frank

Thank you so much for your explanation! And for this beautiful images, as usual!

 

[Trojina]

I've often felt there was a special meaning with lines 1 and 6 changing too. Someone here once said they thought it occured when a situation was very quickly moved though, sort of all done in one bite. I've often wondered about this but haven't come to any firm conclusions of my own. Looking forward to others thoughts on this.

You ask some very good questions Sam !

 

[dobro p]

Thank you, Dobro. I would be interested if possible in reading your thoughts about the special meaning you see for the lines 1 and 6, as well as a bit more about your explanation about this particular case, beyond the emotional level. Thank you again.

Well, lines 1 and 6 often have a 'pre- and post-' meaning. By that, I mean that line 1 often seems to have a meaning along the lines of 'the situation imaged in this hex hasn't quite arrived in full' and line 6 often seems to have a meaning along the lines of 'the situation's waning'. So if you draw lines 1 and 6 in hexagrams of this sort, it seems to be saying something along the lines of 'you're not really into the core of this situation, you're kind of at the edges of it'. So drawing 13.1.6, for instance, would have a meaning of '13 lite' if you take my meaning.

However, in some cases line 6 seems to be the high point of the situation which the hex images - hex 14, for instance, or maybe 40. If that's the case, then drawing lines 1 and 6 doesn't have the idea of 'hex lite'.

Having said all that, I think that 1.1.6 falls into the former category, cuz I think lines 1 and 6 are sort of 'pre-hex' and 'post-hex'.

 

[Samgirl]

As change moves upwards in a hexagram then the uppermost line is the position currently reached, and therefore the oracle to be considered as the answer to the question. The lowermost line changing was the entry into the situation, just as the uppermost is the exit. If you enter as hidden dragon and leave by the top line then this indicates that you haven't been patient enough to let the hidden dragon develop, you have just gone and blundered into the situation. You had potential (line 1), but you blew it (line 6). And this is how the two changing lines would relate to each other. It is important to see that change has climbed up the hexagram at too fast a pace. That these lines changing gives hexagram 28 is no surprise, you are thrown into a completely unstable situation on the verge of breaking.

So... it would be fair to say that when we receive changing lines in the lower trigram only, we are experiencing the situation -we are at the beginning of the situation, and from there there are many possibilities and if the lines are changing only in the upper trigram, we could read it as an oracle, the situation is already moving forward to something else? Or basically describing something that cannot be really changed cause is completed?

 

[Samgirl]

Well, lines 1 and 6 often have a 'pre- and post-' meaning. By that, I mean that line 1 often seems to have a meaning along the lines of 'the situation imaged in this hex hasn't quite arrived in full' and line 6 often seems to have a meaning along the lines of 'the situation's waning'. So if you draw lines 1 and 6 in hexagrams of this sort, it seems to be saying something along the lines of 'you're not really into the core of this situation, you're kind of at the edges of it'. So drawing 13.1.6, for instance, would have a meaning of '13 lite' if you take my meaning.

However, in some cases line 6 seems to be the high point of the situation which the hex images - hex 14, for instance, or maybe 40. If that's the case, then drawing lines 1 and 6 doesn't have the idea of 'hex lite'.

Having said all that, I think that 1.1.6 falls into the former category, cuz I think lines 1 and 6 are sort of 'pre-hex' and 'post-hex'.

Thank you, Dobro, Interesting to read your comments.

 

[Samgirl]

No. I don't apply trigrams in this way at all. Others might, I don't. I was talking about the uppermost of two lines changing taking precedence, it being the more developed situation. Both of these lines could occur in the lower trigram, for instance. The higher the line, in general, the more developed (often to the point of reversion by the top line, but not necessarily), but making an arbitrary dividing line for interpretative purposes based on trigrams is only for trigram pundits.

Yeah, sorry for the confusion. I understand.

 

[frank_r]

1 changing to 28. The only lines that are changing are the outside ones, the ones that are not changing are the inside ones. The core/nucleus isn't changing.
The first line is the line of the people and the 6th of the Sage. The first line is hard to understand because everyone belongs to the people and is part of the people. The last line is easy to understand because everybody knows when somebody is wise or not.

So the first line is harder to understand you only can feel this line by looking to the reactions of other people.
The last line is very obvious, and is easy to understand with your head(your head is also on top).

The last and the first line are not really part of you, the bottum line is from the Earth and the top line is from the Heaven. The middle lines belonging to you, and these are not changing

Hexagram 1 is regarded as Being(in contrast to 2 non being) and 28 is regarded as death(in contrast to 27 life). And than in the way of knowing what your responsibility/indivudualty is on earth. 28 is also seen as where the Spirit is Housed. And that's inside the Heart of somebody.

So I would say this answer has to do with taking responsiblity with your own creative proces and choices.

All the best Frank

 

[Samgirl]

1 changing to 28. The only lines that are changing are the outside ones, the ones that are not changing are the inside ones. The core/nucleus isn't changing.
The first line is the line of the people and the 6th of the Sage. The first line is hard to understand because everyone belongs to the people and is part of the people. The last line is easy to understand because everybody knows when somebody is wise or not.

So the first line is harder to understand you only can feel this line by looking to the reactions of other people.
The last line is very obvious, and is easy to understand with your head(your head is also on top).

The last and the first line are not really part of you, the bottum line is from the Earth and the top line is from the Heaven. The middle lines belonging to you, and these are not changing

Hexagram 1 is regarded as Being(in contrast to 2 non being) and 28 is regarded as death(in contrast to 27 life). And than in the way of knowing what your responsibility/indivudualty is on earth. 28 is also seen as where the Spirit is Housed. And that's inside the Heart of somebody.

So I would say this answer has to do with taking responsiblity with your own creative proces and choices.

All the best Frank

Cool explanation. Thank you very much!

 

[meng]

I was wondering your take on this. In my opinion, line 1 is talking about dormant energies and line 6 mentions going too far, what is also a theme on hexagram 28.

I like your take just fine on this. There's a very fast, perhaps instant jump from being all the way below to all the way on top. As personal energies go, this could be an image of someone who is temperamental and explosive.

This naturally could lead to distressing circumstances, as in 28, as someone who is beside themselves, someone for whom the sky always seems to be falling.

 

[frank_r]

How does that rule of thumb apply to hexagram 1? The first line, being a hidden dragon, is actually an Emperor-in-waiting. The top line is only the sage in a handful of hexagrams, and certainly not in hexagram 1.

Interesting question yes. I think the top line is always the line of the Sage. When somebody is a Sage that doesn't mean he/she will have a easy life. The last line only is telling how to handle not that the handling will be easy and always postive. Also a Sage/wise somebody has to live with setbacks, it's only important how he/she is reacting on the circumstances.
So in hexagram 1 the Sage has to deal with the circumstance of arrogance, and this line isn't telling that the Sage is arogant. He is only arrogant if he isn't listening, if he is dealing in the right fasion he can make a breakthrough(hex 43).

Everybody can have all lines, I don't belief that if somebody is a Sage he/she never will have this line.

Frank

 

[dobro p]

So in hexagram 1 the Sage has to deal with the circumstance of arrogance, and this line isn't telling that the Sage is arogant. He is only arrogant if he isn't listening, if he is dealing in the right fasion he can make a breakthrough(hex 43).

Everybody can have all lines, I don't belief that if somebody is a Sage he/she never will have this line.

A few things here.

1 I'd say that if a sage is arrogant, then the sage isn't really a sage. It begs the question: what do you think a sage is?

2 I'd say Twilight's take on it is the more accurate one (although I also realize that if YOU think that 1.6 is the sage, then the oracle will accommodate its result to your understanding of it at that point). My take on Line 6 is that sometimes it's the sage, sometimes it's the high point of the energy in the Hex, sometimes it's the 'waning' of the energy in the Hex, and sometimes (like in 1.6) it's the energy of the Hex gone wrong.

3 If you see the sage in 1.6, then you either have to say that the arrogance is in the situation (that is, if you think, like me, that a sage is above arrogance), which makes the oracle a bit less useful because as you know there is no shortage of arrogant people in one's environment - what's really useful is when the Oracle gives you a nudge and points out that YOU are being arrogant [by the way, I wouldn't fix on the word 'arrogant' - it isn't the only rendering of the Chinese]; or you have to say that the arrogance is in the sage, which as I've said, doesn't make much sense of the idea of 'sage'. So what's a sage? An intellectual who is as susceptible to emotional afflictions as the rest of us? A man of the world? Or someone whose being is a step above the norm?

 

[meng]

1.1,6-28 sounds like bi-polar.

I don't understand the sage thing, other than it's an aspect of everyone. And even then, your definition of a sage may vary greatly from mine. So, what is a sage? And if you describe a sage with a term such as wisdom, please also define wisdom.

 

[frank_r]

I'd say that if a sage is arrogant, then the sage isn't really a sage. ?

Yes I think also like this, if he is arogant he isn't a Sage.

If you see the sage in 1.6, then you either have to say that the arrogance is in the situation (that is, if you think, like me, that a sage is above arrogance), which makes the oracle a bit less useful because as you know there is no shortage of arrogant people in one's environment - what's really useful is when the Oracle gives you a nudge and points out that YOU are being arrogant [by the way, I wouldn't fix on the word 'arrogant' - it isn't the only rendering of the Chinese]; or you have to say that the arrogance is in the sage, which as I've said, doesn't make much sense of the idea of 'sage'. ??

Personally I see the last line as the top Heaven line, the spiritual line already outside time.
In that way you can recognise the arrogance if you are acting as a Sage. You can see where and what the arrogance is in the situation and in yourself.The Sage and the environment are one.

So what's a sage? An intellectual who is as susceptible to emotional afflictions as the rest of us? A man of the world? Or someone whose being is a step above the norm ??

yes, and what is a Sage. For me a Sage is someone who is acting from the Heart.

 

[meng]

In conclusion, I should say I have gained nothing ... I went through such terrific agony studying this Zen. I lost everything I had, and I gained nothing. I am satisfied. ~ Sokei-an

 

[maremaria]

1.1.6 >28 sound like a good advice how to cross safely the great pass (28). Keep your feet down on earth and don’t let your mind go beyond your limits. Line 1 belongs to Earth , so one much trust earth’s laws and line 6 belongs to Heaven so one must trust its laws.