37.3,4>25 a quick check

[dragona]

Greetings all :bows:
Just a quick question to run by you, if you`d be so kind.
I had an ugly fall out with a friend some time ago and wondered if now, when things are cooler, there is any difference in the atmosphere.
Is ... thinking/intending of approaching me? hex 37.3,4 <25
My understanding of the reading is that the other side reckons: "No, the dissociation was the right thing to do and I am happy the way things are."
Am I reading this correctly?
Ty :bows:

 

[foxx777]

Greetings all :bows:
Just a quick question to run by you, if you`d be so kind.
I had an ugly fall out with a friend some time ago and wondered if now, when things are cooler, there is any difference in the atmosphere.
Is ... thinking/intending of approaching me? hex 37.3,4 <25
My understanding of the reading is that the other side reckons: "No, the dissociation was the right thing to do and I am happy the way things are."
Am I reading this correctly?
Ty :bows:

HMMMMMMM, I do not get that, I do not arrive at that conclusion at all.
I would think that the conflict did you good, and you will become friends again:

37. Family Members

Line 3:

Family members scolding, scolding.
disliking harshness brings good fortune.
Woman and child giggling, giggling,
is eventually inadequate.

It's not good to scold each other, it is better to avoid being harsh. But constantly giggling with each other isn't good either, this will not help things to get going. Both inhibit real communication.

Line 4:

Enriching the family.
Much good fortune.

Providing support to each other. Things go very well.



Hexagram is changing to:

25. Without Pretense

Without pretense.
A foundation for progress.
It is beneficial to persist.
In fact, not being pure is a severe mistake.
It is a disadvantage to have a goal to move to.

Being oneself, natural, without making an effort to appear different than one really is. This makes real progress possible. It's beneficial to continue being this way. Not being thus is in fact a severe mistake. Pursuing a goal may make it necessary to go against one's feelings, so this is a disadvantage to being oneself.

 

[ginnie]

It is best in asking questions of the I Ching to pose them from your own point of view, not ask what someone else is thinking. Sorry, there is no way to read the response you received, because the form of the question is not amenable to interpretation.

 

[dragona]

So what do you think the answer is foxx? I feel I got unjustly judged and still very frustrated about it. :-/

It is best in asking questions of the I Ching to pose them from your own point of view, not ask what someone else is thinking. Sorry, there is no way to read the response you received, because the form of the question is not amenable to interpretation.

I am aware of that and also not fond of yes/no type of questions, but this is such an simple point of a view I tried to apply because for this person answers were always quite consistent to actions.
I believe Yi always offers more, an objective scenery of a kind, so I tend to believe the answer is of a value.

 

[meganj]

I don't see anything wrong with the question Dragona posed.

But is the person a he or a she?

 

[dragona]

I so rarely quarrel as it is, women are not interesting to quarrel with
I was not acting according to his ideas, so the friendship/caring was a thing of a convenience..some people still can do that, amazingly...

 

[foxx777]

I felt the answer was, according to the translation which I posted above, that although there was a communication problem, there could still be mutual support, but that you must hold to your true feelings.

Here it is again, and I think all of this is set forth within, in particular within the bolded prhases.

I think despite how you posed the question, that the I Ching is reflecting back the state of affairs between you and concerning the 2 of you:

37. Family Members

Line 3:

Family members scolding, scolding.
disliking harshness brings good fortune.
Woman and child giggling, giggling,
is eventually inadequate.

It's not good to scold each other, it is better to avoid being harsh. But constantly giggling with each other isn't good either, this will not help things to get going. Both inhibit real communication.

Line 4:

Enriching the family.
Much good fortune.

Providing support to each other. Things go very well.



Hexagram is changing to:

25. Without Pretense

Without pretense.
A foundation for progress.
It is beneficial to persist.
In fact, not being pure is a severe mistake.
It is a disadvantage to have a goal to move to.

Being oneself, natural, without making an effort to appear different than one really is. This makes real progress possible. It's beneficial to continue being this way. Not being thus is in fact a severe mistake. Pursuing a goal may make it necessary to go against one's feelings, so this is a disadvantage to being oneself.

 

[dragona]

I think despite how you posed the question, that the I Ching is reflecting back the state of affairs between you and concerning the 2 of you
yes, that is how I understood it, but since asked about another person, 3rd line indicates to me that actions taken were just and severity was needed and 4th line may speak of one or both being enriched in our own detached circles...further more hex 25 is as independent and unatached as can be..like a young hippy girl high on weed dancing through the meadows in spring...
what I am trying to say, I had a brief hunch today but now it is gone....

 

[dragona]

Hi back, just wondered how (if) you see that happening?

I felt the answer was, according to the translation which I posted above, that although there was a communication problem, there could still be mutual support, but that you must hold to your true feelings.

 

[danadanadana]

I had an ugly fall out with a friend some time ago and wondered if now, when things are cooler, there is any difference in the atmosphere.
Is ... thinking/intending of approaching me? hex 37.3,4 <25

Hexagram 37 - The Clan or Family
Relationships in the clan are based on duty and hierarchy and tradition. It is important to understand the situation from the perspective of what is your duty to the clan, and what is your friend's duty to the clan.
Line 3
Where tempers flare up in the family,
Too great severity brings remorse.
Good fortune nonetheless.
When woman and child dally and laugh,
It leads in the end to humiliation
It appears that there has been a family argument where someone has transgressed the traditional rules of the clan out of anger, hurt and resentment. Since these are family ties that have been damaged there is hope of forgetting the argument and forgiving the wrongs that have brought this argument about.
Line 4
She is the treasure of the house.
Great good fortune.
Remember your duty to the group and be willing to forgive and forget your personal hurt just to keep the harmony of the group since that is the most important consideration.

Changing to Hexagram 25
THE IMAGE
Under heaven thunder rolls:
All things attain the natural state of innocence.
Thus the kings of old,
Rich in virtue, and in harmony with the time,
Fostered and nourished all beings.
You are hoping that your friendship can be renewed and in this hope you are expressing a simple love and affection for your friend that is the seed of your relationship. Give energy to this basic feeling for your friend and with time you will probably have a chance to reconnect - like a new fresh green sprout in springtime grows on an old tree.

 

[dragona]

Thank you, and just to add, it is not a family member...but due to the New Moon, my fragile nervous and emotional setup, or the frustration in overall, I am still mostly too dissapointed and quite angry these days and feeling too easily abandoned for I don`t stop caring for people even long after they do.
The question was is the other side ready to approach and from the whole thread here, I think the answer is NO.

 

[Trojina]

I don't see anything wrong with the question Dragona posed.
?

Really ? Then read this http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=12642 check under the sub heading "not so helpful questions"
this forum is so full of women asking what men are thinking it was written and put here as a sticky to address that. Ginnie knows what she is talking about.

its not a question of right and wrong but one of understanding the answer which none of you who ask these questions ever do...and so ask other women to help you figure what the man is thinking....what a waste of time it gets...which is absolutely your choice...but if someone occasionally steps in to suggest you are aren't really getting far with this kind of question be happy they did

 

[Trojina]

Greetings all :bows:
Just a quick question to run by you, if you`d be so kind.
I had an ugly fall out with a friend some time ago and wondered if now, when things are cooler, there is any difference in the atmosphere.
Is ... thinking/intending of approaching me? hex 37.3,4 <25
My understanding of the reading is that the other side reckons: "No, the dissociation was the right thing to do and I am happy the way things are."
Am I reading this correctly?
Ty :bows:

yup pointless question. You could toss a coin for it since a its a yes/no question.

Better question might be "should i plan for his return ?" perhaps. At least if you asked that there'd be a clear place to interpret from...ie your POV.


BTW how many threads are there now on his state of mind...is it all the same guy ?

 

[foxx777]

Hi back, just wondered how (if) you see that happening?

I guess I felt that he might come back, and reconcile, and that so long as she held to her own feelings, and did not go so far as to be conciliatory, it would be alright. Or at least I had hoped....

 

[foxx777]

yup pointless question. You could toss a coin for it since a its a yes/no question.

Better question might be "should i plan for his return ?" perhaps. At least if you asked that there'd be a clear place to interpret from...ie your POV.


BTW how many threads are there now on his state of mind...is it all the same guy ?

I actually cannot see the vast difference in asking, "How does X feel" or "should I plan for X's return?" , as X would have to feel at least somewhat remorseful to return, so answers the first in any case. I guess the best would be , "What does this quarrel really mean for further relations with X?", but this is so much semantics.

While, "What is X thinking, feeling, about me?" may be an unwise question, it is at least honest: They really want to know. When there is a lapse or a silence, this is what fills one's mind.

 

[danadanadana]

Thank you, and just to add, it is not a family member...but due to the New Moon, my fragile nervous and emotional setup, or the frustration in overall, I am still mostly too dissapointed and quite angry these days and feeling too easily abandoned for I don`t stop caring for people even long after they do.
The question was is the other side ready to approach and from the whole thread here, I think the answer is NO.

Even if the person in question is not literally a family member you have drawn the hexagram 37 which is specifically about the the duties and feelings that arise for an individual living within a family or clan. Since the subject of your question is not a family member then I would suggest that you are relating to him or her in a similar way as you did to someone in your own family history, perhaps? The key to the reading is to understand the influence of families and clans.

 

[Trojina]

I actually cannot see the vast difference in asking, "How does X feel" or "should I plan for X's return?" , as X would have to feel at least somewhat remorseful to return, so answers the first in any case. I guess the best would be , "What does this quarrel really mean for further relations with X?", but this is so much semantics.

While, "What is X thinking, feeling, about me?" may be an unwise question, it is at least honest: They really want to know. When there is a lapse or a silence, this is what fills one's mind.

really ? obviously you haven't read the sticky I linked to. You don't understand the difference between trying to understand an answer via mindreading someone else or asking from your own POV... ....well read the sticky. As for wanting to know..yes of course they want to know but they'll never find out by posting 50 threads here about it. Even after 50 threads they don't know.....


don't mind me I'll leave you to get on with it.....

 

[foxx777]

really ? obviously you haven't read the sticky I linked to. You don't understand the difference between trying to understand an answer via mindreading someone else or asking from your own POV... ....well read the sticky. As for wanting to know..yes of course they want to know but they'll never find out by posting 50 threads here about it. Even after 50 threads they don't know.....


don't mind me I'll leave you to get on with it.....

Sure, I understand the difference. But I suppose philosophically, I am taking the a priori view, such as , What was Ceasar thinking, that he crossed the Rubicon? This is actually what my philosophy mentor taught me, in terms of how to view the etyiology of historical events. So, what is he thinking does not seem like mind-reading to me, but like a priori historical purview thinking.

 

[Trojina]

I actually cannot see the vast difference in asking, "How does X feel" or "should I plan for X's return?" , as X would have to feel at least somewhat remorseful to return, so answers the first in any case. I guess the best would be , "What does this quarrel really mean for further relations with X?", but this is so much semantics.

While, "What is X thinking, feeling, about me?" may be an unwise question, it is at least honest: They really want to know. When there is a lapse or a silence, this is what fills one's mind.

Precisely....so one has a choice to ask a)from ones own perspective where it is much easier to understand the answer AND its likley ones gets in insight into the others feeling anyway...OR b) ask about his intentions where to be honest its not at clear what the answer is.


Whatever

 

[foxx777]

Yes, I do see your point, of course. Thanks.

 

[Trojina]

Sure, I understand the difference. But I suppose philosophically, I am taking the a priori view, such as , What was Ceasar thinking, that he crossed the Rubicon? This is actually what my philosophy mentor taught me, in terms of how to view the etyiology of historical events. So, what is he thinking does not seem like mind-reading to me, but like a priori historical purview thinking.

yes i can see how all that in depth tutoring got you to your answer here

 

[dragona]

"Give energy to this basic feeling for your friend and with time you will probably have a chance to reconnect - like a new fresh green sprout in springtime grows on an old tree."
That was very lovely put danadanadana even if it suggests that I should act as a bigger person and take the initiative.
"you are relating to him or her in a similar way as you did to someone in your own family history, perhaps? "
that is a very interesting point, there are repeating patterns here and even, I don`t know...a karmic connection? (I hesitate to say such things without being absolutely certain), certainly close.

I mind very much the way I form my questions, so something must have made me ask it in that "uncorrect "way, let us presume...as I presume that when many others do the same thing, they do it for other, different reasons I may not be aware of so at least I try to say something nice and meaningful if I can to them...or don`t get bothered responding to "pointless question".

 

[foxx777]

Hi back, just wondered how (if) you see that happening?

I think so, not only from the reading, but from my own experience. Friendships often weather all sorts of conflicts and disruptions. Sorry, sometimes I lose track of these threads. Please post if anything occurs! I have always read H25 as a sort of innocent non-involvement, which could create an opening or space for a return of your friend.

 

[foxx777]

yes i can see how all that in depth tutoring got you to your answer here

Good thing I have a sense of humor.

 

[dragona]

These kind of situations I find extremely unpleasant and want to put things right whenever I can, especially it is affecting others as well. Not to mention unnecessary drama and tension...the third party, a mutual friend let me know they had met and then suddenly walked away from the conversation (that was on the easy side), so I formed the question that way, thinking something has happened and this will cut it short as probably will be negative.
Awkward, as I said.
For follow up then got 19.3,4 so I guess something should be done about it at last.

 

[hopex]

the person somehow is in your tribe and so
be without expectation

 

[dragona]

i like your quick insightful remarks hopex, i do
but am so slow on the way how yor mind works and breaking the row withing the sentence gives it a different spin
hope ll is well with bruce and yourself there

 

[cris]

So... over two years later... what happened, Dragona? Did you and your friend reconcile?

 

[watergoddess1]

I think that this hexagram is saying that although you guys had a fall out - there is love / strong bond still existing within your friendship.

The reflection of 25 - to me feels like forgiveness is ripe, and whoever was in the "wrong" will be forgiven. OR that one will recognise that he / she was not actually wronged.

Either way - it's positive.