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41-2,4
- Thread starter krista
- Start date
dobro p
visitor
- Joined
- May 19, 1972
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41.2.4>21 - diminishing that bites through an obstacle. In other words, M is diminishing his/her involvement with you in a way that bites through some kind of obstacle (the obstacle is probably in the relationship).
41.2 talks about the inadvisability of imposing order on the situation, and points out how this is not actually a diminishing, but an augmenting in fact. In other words, by not imposing him/herself on the relationship, M is actually augmenting things - it's no loss at all.
41.4 talks about how dumping any afflicted emotion arising out of this situation immediately and putting things straight yields joy without a hint of remorse. Which is, I think, self-explanatory in terms of M's feelings and attitudes toward you - the line describes either what M is actually doing right now, or what M needs to do.
Okay, I answered your question. Now I'm going to suggest that it would be much more useful for you (and for M) if you asked the Yi about *your* attitude and behavior in the relationship, not M's. I mean, you don't really need to know where M is at in the relationship as much as you need to know where *you're* at in it. And to the extent that you want to know what's on M's mind, why not ask them? Why pry behind the scenes of someone else's mind using the oracle?
And if I've got it all wrong, tell me why.
41.2 talks about the inadvisability of imposing order on the situation, and points out how this is not actually a diminishing, but an augmenting in fact. In other words, by not imposing him/herself on the relationship, M is actually augmenting things - it's no loss at all.
41.4 talks about how dumping any afflicted emotion arising out of this situation immediately and putting things straight yields joy without a hint of remorse. Which is, I think, self-explanatory in terms of M's feelings and attitudes toward you - the line describes either what M is actually doing right now, or what M needs to do.
Okay, I answered your question. Now I'm going to suggest that it would be much more useful for you (and for M) if you asked the Yi about *your* attitude and behavior in the relationship, not M's. I mean, you don't really need to know where M is at in the relationship as much as you need to know where *you're* at in it. And to the extent that you want to know what's on M's mind, why not ask them? Why pry behind the scenes of someone else's mind using the oracle?
And if I've got it all wrong, tell me why.
R
rosada
Guest
You haven't given us much to go on here, Krista...
Assuming M stands for Man and not Mother and the fact that not many people post here to tell us how great their relationships are going, I'm going to assume you are asking about a relationship with a Man and that it isn't moving along as you would like.
41. Decrease
is about eliminating unrewarding activities.
41.2 (note, this is how you indicate a change line. Less cumbersome than having to write out "change line at 2") Suggests to me that M is friendly towards you, but not overly so. May not have time or interest in a closer involvement. May realize you would like more, but much as he would like to help you, he doesn't feel about you what you feel towards him and therefore he can't give you what you're wanting.
41.4
Again suggests M feels pressured. Something you are doing that you could stop doing would make it easier for M to reach out to you.
Sounds like 41 is saying if you and M had a relationship, the intensity has decreased. You are no longer the hub of the universe for your partner. Time to let the relationship stabilize on a companionable level. No need to react with hurt, because as you are able to relax, what does work about the relationship will come into focus.
(from Angelika Hoefler's book)
21. Biting through.
I think I'm close to the same thinking as Paul on this. By decreasing demands on M, or the relationship with M, you may find that what ever the obstacle between the two of you is comes into focus and can be resolved. Of course, if there is something unsuitable about a relationship with this person - like if one of you is married - then 21 can mean cutting off the relationship entirely. But otherwise I think IC is telling you, "Make few demands and you two should be able to tackle problems in a mutually satisfactory way."
Assuming M stands for Man and not Mother and the fact that not many people post here to tell us how great their relationships are going, I'm going to assume you are asking about a relationship with a Man and that it isn't moving along as you would like.
41. Decrease
is about eliminating unrewarding activities.
41.2 (note, this is how you indicate a change line. Less cumbersome than having to write out "change line at 2") Suggests to me that M is friendly towards you, but not overly so. May not have time or interest in a closer involvement. May realize you would like more, but much as he would like to help you, he doesn't feel about you what you feel towards him and therefore he can't give you what you're wanting.
41.4
Again suggests M feels pressured. Something you are doing that you could stop doing would make it easier for M to reach out to you.
Sounds like 41 is saying if you and M had a relationship, the intensity has decreased. You are no longer the hub of the universe for your partner. Time to let the relationship stabilize on a companionable level. No need to react with hurt, because as you are able to relax, what does work about the relationship will come into focus.
(from Angelika Hoefler's book)
21. Biting through.
I think I'm close to the same thinking as Paul on this. By decreasing demands on M, or the relationship with M, you may find that what ever the obstacle between the two of you is comes into focus and can be resolved. Of course, if there is something unsuitable about a relationship with this person - like if one of you is married - then 21 can mean cutting off the relationship entirely. But otherwise I think IC is telling you, "Make few demands and you two should be able to tackle problems in a mutually satisfactory way."
R
rosada
Guest
Further thoughts.
Krista, I'm seeing you in a situation where you are in a relationship with a man who may have been quite devoted to you at one time, perhaps asked you to "wait" for him until his job or divorce or whatever was no longer an obstacle. Now it feels like he's not so attentive and you are wondering what his feelings are. Are the obstacles really so great that he can't spend more time with you, or are you being taken for granted or even forgotten? 41.2. tells me he's not going to do anything to remove the obstacle to the union you are hoping for, but if you can live with that, can give up your mistaken belief that he is going to give you more, than he will be delighted to see you when he can (41.4). However, when you realize he's not making any effort to remove the obstacles between you, you yourself may decide to move on. Sounds like it's time for a real heart to heart.
--
Hey, this is the kinda reading you get when we don't have more facts. Let us know the real situation. It's the only way we learn...
Krista, I'm seeing you in a situation where you are in a relationship with a man who may have been quite devoted to you at one time, perhaps asked you to "wait" for him until his job or divorce or whatever was no longer an obstacle. Now it feels like he's not so attentive and you are wondering what his feelings are. Are the obstacles really so great that he can't spend more time with you, or are you being taken for granted or even forgotten? 41.2. tells me he's not going to do anything to remove the obstacle to the union you are hoping for, but if you can live with that, can give up your mistaken belief that he is going to give you more, than he will be delighted to see you when he can (41.4). However, when you realize he's not making any effort to remove the obstacles between you, you yourself may decide to move on. Sounds like it's time for a real heart to heart.
--
Hey, this is the kinda reading you get when we don't have more facts. Let us know the real situation. It's the only way we learn...
Everything sounds completelly perfect and it does fit in the situation. M is a friend, a man, M is his name initial. We were lovers in the past and chat sometimes but not for a long time now since he looked for me again, chased me almost, was nice and civil sending even offlines and communicating and I was responding being nice, maybe a bit pushy to understand where he was at about me, but completelly into limits and no big deal, anyway... he was being kinda nice and civil until from one day to the other he just blocked me or put me on invisible stealth settings so I dont see this person online ever again cause he shows offline to me when I know he is online, so I got confused and hurt by his attitude, cause I really was expecting some niceness and courtesy from someone I cared, do you understand? I am upset about that. I dont think I push into limits that could lead to such a reaction, in the past yes but not now. I was just really nice and caring, but as I am to the ones I liked or like cause Im a caring person and he was important to me so I was nice. I may have some stupid expectations I admit but I know it will go anywhere and it is just illusional or desillusional on my part, but I just wanted to feel like I was important at least to not be blocked as people do when they hate someone. I feel upset and very threatened, but I just may sound just silly. But thats me, I cant fake saying Im ok and not upset so Im here looking for advice and clarification. The answers fit completelly the situation and told me a lot. I just wish I could understand cause I really dont think I did something so bad that could cause such a strong reaction. What do you all think I should ask now to help me clarifying this and move on completelly?
Plus..... this will not have a turning point, cause ... honestly... it doesnt mean I would like to chat again, but really... I feel very much upset and would be ok to just know I was so much left behind like nothing. I know this is such a weird world with weird people but Im never ever used to uncaring ones. My bad, it seems, cause it sounds people dont care and know the value of courtesy.
Sorry, just venting out of upset moments, but... what should I ask now to help me clarify and calm down?
I am the kind of person who needs to understand what happens in all situations.
And thanks if I come too strong now, but I am just very upset and always disappointed at how people reactions can be so cruel sometimes even if it is their right.
Plus..... this will not have a turning point, cause ... honestly... it doesnt mean I would like to chat again, but really... I feel very much upset and would be ok to just know I was so much left behind like nothing. I know this is such a weird world with weird people but Im never ever used to uncaring ones. My bad, it seems, cause it sounds people dont care and know the value of courtesy.
Sorry, just venting out of upset moments, but... what should I ask now to help me clarify and calm down?
I am the kind of person who needs to understand what happens in all situations.
And thanks if I come too strong now, but I am just very upset and always disappointed at how people reactions can be so cruel sometimes even if it is their right.
Hi Krista,
I mended the ?pushiness? of asking so fast in the first place, but perhaps, after reading what has been going on, I wander if this pushiness is also the ?problem?....
Hexagram 41 is about balance. The image says to losen what you have to much, and get what you have not yet to get balance. You probably have a feeling of ?needing him? right now, and the Yi is trying to comphort you in some way saying that you are strong enough to live without him. I think 41 is about the situation now, and lines 2 & 4 going to hex. 21 are the background and the near future. It?s going to be some time to bite trough things... NOT to from this man, but more of the feelings... If you look at the changing lines and make these lines yang, then the ONLY hexagram with yang lines on these positions is Hex. 40 Liberation. Free yourself from to much anxiety.
Hang in there!
Hug,
Frank
I mended the ?pushiness? of asking so fast in the first place, but perhaps, after reading what has been going on, I wander if this pushiness is also the ?problem?....
Hexagram 41 is about balance. The image says to losen what you have to much, and get what you have not yet to get balance. You probably have a feeling of ?needing him? right now, and the Yi is trying to comphort you in some way saying that you are strong enough to live without him. I think 41 is about the situation now, and lines 2 & 4 going to hex. 21 are the background and the near future. It?s going to be some time to bite trough things... NOT to from this man, but more of the feelings... If you look at the changing lines and make these lines yang, then the ONLY hexagram with yang lines on these positions is Hex. 40 Liberation. Free yourself from to much anxiety.
Hang in there!
Hug,
Frank
I was pushy here before cause I thought the readers were online so got anxious.
I may be pushy here but wasnt with this person at this time so I know I have no blame to carry on this in the present.
I feel very unfairly treated and believe me... being blocked is not the best of feelings.
I must free myself of anxiety, you are right, but tell my mind. lol
Anyway, I may sound maybe too much but I surely can live without him and Im just upset, thats all.
But I am very upset... and honestly.. I am a nice polite woman and really was expecting more courtesy from him cause Im like this in my life. I always expect good things from people in general, from ex-lovers and friends to casual people I meet in my life. My big mistake in this, maybe.
Anyway....
Thanks for your post and anything I can hear right now is really good for me as it helps me to relax and forget people who are not worth my time and energy.
I apreciate any help and honestly... I seek for it right now.
I may be pushy here but wasnt with this person at this time so I know I have no blame to carry on this in the present.
I feel very unfairly treated and believe me... being blocked is not the best of feelings.
I must free myself of anxiety, you are right, but tell my mind. lol
Anyway, I may sound maybe too much but I surely can live without him and Im just upset, thats all.
But I am very upset... and honestly.. I am a nice polite woman and really was expecting more courtesy from him cause Im like this in my life. I always expect good things from people in general, from ex-lovers and friends to casual people I meet in my life. My big mistake in this, maybe.
Anyway....
Thanks for your post and anything I can hear right now is really good for me as it helps me to relax and forget people who are not worth my time and energy.
I apreciate any help and honestly... I seek for it right now.
Hi Krista,
I know exactly how you feel right now, and believe me I do. NOT in this specific kind of situation, but with ?telling my mind?... I have moodswings, and am finnaly getting at the fact that I control these moodswings myself, but everytime I try to be calm and peacefull about it, something happens and the brain takes over my wheels again... Very disturbing indeed... So, as for that side of the ?problem? I do know what it is to bite trough (21)... Even at this moment as we speak I finnaly had some better thing to say to someone, and I torned it dawn a bit myself, as ?o well, it?s nothing? or something like that, where I had to be damn proud of myself... And so should you! I do like love and kindness of people too, but I have to learn (yes, as a mather of fact I have to ?learn? that...), to be kind to myself the most... Please let the mood loosen up a little (am I talking to myself here :-D?), and look at these answers in some days from now... Man, I was shaper with that ?patience? thing afterall :-D...
Hang in there!
Hug,
Frank
I know exactly how you feel right now, and believe me I do. NOT in this specific kind of situation, but with ?telling my mind?... I have moodswings, and am finnaly getting at the fact that I control these moodswings myself, but everytime I try to be calm and peacefull about it, something happens and the brain takes over my wheels again... Very disturbing indeed... So, as for that side of the ?problem? I do know what it is to bite trough (21)... Even at this moment as we speak I finnaly had some better thing to say to someone, and I torned it dawn a bit myself, as ?o well, it?s nothing? or something like that, where I had to be damn proud of myself... And so should you! I do like love and kindness of people too, but I have to learn (yes, as a mather of fact I have to ?learn? that...), to be kind to myself the most... Please let the mood loosen up a little (am I talking to myself here :-D?), and look at these answers in some days from now... Man, I was shaper with that ?patience? thing afterall :-D...
Hang in there!
Hug,
Frank
Yes I do understand, same here as my mind is always the last one to relax.
Now being more specific, and not feeling so upset about it as I was yesterday, does this reading mean that this person doesnt like me anymore not even as a friend to chat ocasionally so wont ever contact me again? I ended up being the bad guy in this?
Thanks for any help.
Now being more specific, and not feeling so upset about it as I was yesterday, does this reading mean that this person doesnt like me anymore not even as a friend to chat ocasionally so wont ever contact me again? I ended up being the bad guy in this?
Thanks for any help.
Hi Krista,
Doesn't he like you me anymore... Gee, I realy don't know, to be honest, but the question was related to that and you received hex. 41... It looks like the interest is decreased... BUT as you responded up here the way you responded, I wander if you had that same kind of emotion inside when the question was asked, and THEN it is NOT about a straight and clear answer about his feelings, BUT about the response you had inside... (your feelings). As I said the Imagetext is about "The superior man curbs his indignation and restricts his desires"... That can mean 'restrict' the pain inside you as well. Ofcourse you feel hurt, and ofcourse you have doubts, but maybe after calming down, as you already did in comparison to yesterday, it's time for a follow-up question...? I still believe it's about YOU in the first place, although the question was about him... If I look further to me line 2 sounds like your emotions these days...and the balance to find there... Then line 4 is about feelings AFTER the balance. Because you may not be used to this, it could be a 'biting trough'... Perhaps others can help you out here as well, as they gave some great insights too...
Again: Hang in there.
Hug,
Frank
Doesn't he like you me anymore... Gee, I realy don't know, to be honest, but the question was related to that and you received hex. 41... It looks like the interest is decreased... BUT as you responded up here the way you responded, I wander if you had that same kind of emotion inside when the question was asked, and THEN it is NOT about a straight and clear answer about his feelings, BUT about the response you had inside... (your feelings). As I said the Imagetext is about "The superior man curbs his indignation and restricts his desires"... That can mean 'restrict' the pain inside you as well. Ofcourse you feel hurt, and ofcourse you have doubts, but maybe after calming down, as you already did in comparison to yesterday, it's time for a follow-up question...? I still believe it's about YOU in the first place, although the question was about him... If I look further to me line 2 sounds like your emotions these days...and the balance to find there... Then line 4 is about feelings AFTER the balance. Because you may not be used to this, it could be a 'biting trough'... Perhaps others can help you out here as well, as they gave some great insights too...
Again: Hang in there.
Hug,
Frank