44.2 > 33 your thoughts please?

[scarlet]

How would you interpret hexs 44 with moving line # 2 , giving hex 33?
Question was- Will we get back together (relationship question).
I am not sure if it's positive or negative response.

 

[gene]

It is one of those dubious readings because a fish in the tank can be something positive, but in this case, not likely. The reason I say this is because relationships questions are usually more positive when the second line correlates with the fifth. Here they do not. The only yin line in the hexagram is line one and it belongs to the fifth line, the ruler. But the rules of context are that the second and fifth should correlate. In other words if one line is yin and the other yang, best is if the second is yin and the fifth is yang. In the context of the overall meaning of the hexagram, the first line, the yin line is held in a friendly way, but not a relationship way. It is friendly, and yet distant at the same time, recognizing, with the meaning of the hexagram as a whole that the hookup could be somewhat dangerous. And then 33 talks about retreat.

It sounds like you do not want this to go, yet it may be best if it does.

Gene

 

[willowfox]

It looks quite negative to me, suggesting that the other person could prove to be a big problem if you come into contact with them again, so it is advising you to back off as there will be problems for you if you persist.

 

[dobro p]

How would you interpret hexs 44 with moving line # 2 , giving hex 33?
Question was- Will we get back together (relationship question).
I am not sure if it's positive or negative response.

It's neither negative nor positive, but it's giving you some advice about what's going on and how to handle it. The text says that holding what’s valuable within you is alright, but it isn’t worth contacting anyone. In other words, the Yi isn't saying whether or not you'll get back together (it's leaving that up to you, and the uncertainty surrounding it just part of what you have to learn from), but it's helping you deal with it skillfully.

 

[auriel]

nah- you got him hooked. fish on the line. but he's got issues with you to work out in private only. don't ask your friends opinions- play from the heart. & give in a little- when you're through playing hard to get- and work something out. but also these issues could go deep- so you'll need to find long term solutions to keep them at bay

 

[scarlet]

Thanks....so the opinions contradict here. I think I will pick the positive one I really do want to reconcile.

 

[dobro p]

nah- you got him hooked. fish on the line. but he's got issues with you to work out in private only. don't ask your friends opinions- play from the heart. & give in a little- when you're through playing hard to get- and work something out. but also these issues could go deep- so you'll need to find long term solutions to keep them at bay

I like 'fish on the line' - I think you've seen something there.

 

[scarlet]

dobro- Does this mean you agree with auriel's interpretation?

 

[rosada]

It's nice to think happy thoughts and tell people encouraging things, but we're trying to earn to decipher the I Ching here and no way is 44.2 saying "You have a fish on a line" meaning you can now reel him in.

44.2
There is a fish in the tank. No blame....The fish is an unsavory influence that must be kept in check. Avoid this person or you will have only yourself to blame.

Does not further guests...He'll just contaminate every part of your life.

33. Retreat
The superior man keeps the inferior man at a distance,
Not angrily, but with reserve.

Again, is this saying soul-mate? I don't think so!

Interesting the fan yao of 44.2 is
33.2
He holds him fast with yellow oxhide.
No one can tear him loose.

Perhaps this discribes your intense desire to reconcile.
-
Anyway, I certainly wish you the best with your friendship, Scarlet, I'm just saying that 44.2 says, "Avoid this person," and any other interpretation is not what the I Ching says - if things work out differently, then the I Ching was wrong, but 44.2 doesn't say "Give in a little," it says, "Don't go there!"
-

No offence intended to those who disagree with me. Guess I'm in a huffy mood today.

 

[Trojina]

Scarlet its worth checking out the hexagram index on this line - I swear some time back someone talked about 'bin rites' in relation to the fish not being served - it may have been Marshall - i think the idea was this was a good omen for partnership but not for settling things as in marriage etc because these rites were not to be performed yet. I think it was along the lines of there is something in the relationship but now is not the time to make it official or public. Can't find that thread now so may have got this wrong - anyway i don't think its as cut and dried as either you reconcile or don't reconcile. If you are looking for the 'right' interpretation of this line you won't get it i don't think, you'll have to read around it and dwell on how it pertains to your situation.

No fish on lines are mentioned at all as far as i can see -

 

[dobro p]

dobro- Does this mean you agree with auriel's interpretation?

I don't understand why Auriel goes where he/she does with the rest of the interpretation, so I neither agree nor disagree with it. If I could borrow Auriel's take on the first phrase though, my reading of what you got would be something like this: "You've got him like a fish on the line and there's no fault or blame attached to this (lucky you!); and yet there's no advantage for you in contacting him right now. Let him simmer in his own juice for a while. (That's the element of withdrawing, see?)"

That's what I now think the Yi's saying in answer to your question. But it doesn't really answer your question directly, right? However, it seems to imply there's a good chance you'll get back together because it seems to be saying your position is the strong one, that the ball's in his court, and all you have to do is wait.

 

[dobro p]

Okay, I went back and re-read Auriel's message yet again, and this bit's clearer for me now: "he's got issues with you to work out in private only."

I think he/she means by this that you and he don't need to consult each other right now, which is what the Yi says.

 

[willowfox]

-
Anyway, I certainly wish you the best with your friendship, Scarlet, I'm just saying that 44.2 says, "Avoid this person," and any other interpretation is not what the I Ching says - if things work out differently, then the I Ching was wrong, but 44.2 doesn't say "Give in a little," it says, "Don't go there!"
-

No offence intended to those who disagree with me. Guess I'm in a huffy mood today.

I said the same many days ago but I'm just a snail lately and people on this forum either ignore me or try to step on me.

 

[dobro p]

It's nice to think happy thoughts and tell people encouraging things, but we're trying to earn to decipher the I Ching here and no way is 44.2 saying "You have a fish on a line" meaning you can now reel him in.

44.2
There is a fish in the tank. No blame....The fish is an unsavory influence that must be kept in check. Avoid this person or you will have only yourself to blame.

Does not further guests...He'll just contaminate every part of your life.

33. Retreat
The superior man keeps the inferior man at a distance,
Not angrily, but with reserve.

Again, is this saying soul-mate? I don't think so!

Interesting the fan yao of 44.2 is
33.2
He holds him fast with yellow oxhide.
No one can tear him loose.

Perhaps this discribes your intense desire to reconcile.
-
Anyway, I certainly wish you the best with your friendship, Scarlet, I'm just saying that 44.2 says, "Avoid this person," and any other interpretation is not what the I Ching says - if things work out differently, then the I Ching was wrong, but 44.2 doesn't say "Give in a little," it says, "Don't go there!"
-

No offence intended to those who disagree with me. Guess I'm in a huffy mood today.

You're ignoring the fan yao meaning. Yellow oxhide, no one can tear him loose. This is strong connection, not otherwise.

And if you choose the translation 'visiting' instead of 'guests' it talks about maintaining a discrete distance, not breaking the connection. (This is where the 33 connection comes in.)

And 'containing fish' is NOT a negative image. It's an image of having something (fish are valuable in the Yi, not otherwise) and possibly of having control of it. Line 2 is often a line of control or power of some sort.

Finally, I found the rendition 'like a fish on the line' for 44.2 an inspired rendition.

You're being didactic, but I'm seeing stuff in this line I never saw before because of the first part of Auriel's rendering. Are you so sure your take on it is absolutely correct and the only one? I'm asking, cuz sometimes I *do* feel my take on a line is really reliable. So I'm asking: do you have that sense of sureness about your interpretation in this case? Cuz until now, the meaning of this line has always seemed rather uncertain.

 

[hilary]

Trojan, I remember what you remember. Steve M was pretty convincing (and absolutely sure, as he generally is). The gist: catching a fish in a willow-wand trap (there is no 'tank' outside Cary Baynes' ingenuity) is a good omen for a partnership. But not that good an omen - not something you can really bank on. Don't introduce the prospective partner to your ancestors (the 'guesting' rites) just yet.

An alternative take on this line, from Margaret Pearson: the fish in the trap is an image for early pregnancy. Go into retreat and keep quiet; this is not a time for socialising.

I would read this cautiously. Yes, there is something in your relationship and your feelings; no, it's not all in your mind. But that doesn't mean you should be actively seeking reconciliation or making a deeper commitment.

Hexagram 33 is all about self-preservation, keeping your own identity free and clear. That's exactly the kind of thing people can lose in difficult relationships - you know, when it seems you can't decide how you feel or what you want until you know what the other person feels and wants? Not good.

 

[mirian]

I cannot add anything in terms of interpretation but I would like to draw on my personal experience. I got exactly the same hexagram and changing line quite some time ago. In my case, the Ching was definitely talking about an unworthy relationship.

 

[rosada]

IMO "Fish on a line" suggests something one is attached to, has control over. "Fish in the tank" suggests something one is separated from, control by putting up boundries. The key difference is that one suggests you can manipulate the other, the other emphasizes you can only control yourself. However, perhaps there is a hint that by Playing Hard to Get, Retreat, refusing to respond to poor treatment, perhaps the partner will come to their sences and streighten up.I wonder if the "yellow oxhide" would indicate some sort of Karmic tie, some lesson to be learned that would make the relationship less easy to walk away from. Like, "He doesn't treat me well, but my father didn't treat my mother well so of course I'm crazy about him..." I wonder if 33.Retreat is also counselling to step back with your requirements. Maybe this is what Auriel was saying when she said, "Give alittle." I think that could apply if it meant step back from the degree of commitment and not expect more than your commitment requires. In otherwords, if he is treating you as "Just a friend" don't expect more and you wont be disappointed with less and you may find you have a fabulous friendship that could then grow!
Interesting Miriam, that you found 44.2 to indicate an unsavory character. Do you have any sence of what the Fan yao 33.2 meant in your case?
Scarlet, even though you're getting more value from the more optimistic interpretation, can you tell us how this line relates to your situation? That is, do you see yourself having him as a fish on a line, some sort of control - even it a small way ? Do you see yourself needing to put up boundries, Retreat, or not tell your friends or family about him? Just curious..
Rosada

 

[willowfox]

There is no such translation of this line, 'as fish on the line", it does not exist.

Fish in the tank or fish in the wrapper, or in one's kitchen there are fish, and it is not beneficial to entertain guests.

Keep this person away from you as he will only cause trouble for you. So do not entertain him it is not beneficial for you.

 

[hilary]

Indeed - there's no fish on a line, but there's also no tank. That's an artefact of translation from German to English: I believe Wilhelm said something like 'container', and Cary Baynes deduced that the natural container for a fish was a tank. The fish is wrapped, like a foetus in the womb. Steve M, whose opinions are not to be sneezed at, thinks the fish has been caught in a willow-wand trap.

Either way, the gist seems to be that however good it is to have a fish, it's not good enough to entertain guests. Don't socialise, don't invite him in, don't make a formal commitment that he will be part of your family and your life.

 

[Trojina]

I think I'd go with Pearson and Hilary - something embryonic needs time and space to develop without input from others and without you giving to them - if you're nurturing something not yet ready its not time to offer it out to others.

Re the view the fish is something negative that needs controlling I can't see why a fish would be used to symbolise this ? fish are so easy to control (unless they're piranhas,) well at least I can't say I've found them great trouble makers. Also from my experience I recall getting this line when asking about non romantic relations, get togethers, social things with long term friends etc who really can't represent danger that needs containing, I think it could be literally about not extending oneself or ones hospitality when theres something precious within that needs attending to and that links to 33.

 

[scarlet]

Scarlet, even though you're getting more value from the more optimistic interpretation, can you tell us how this line relates to your situation? That is, do you see yourself having him as a fish on a line, some sort of control - even it a small way ? Do you see yourself needing to put up boundries, Retreat, or not tell your friends or family about him? Just curious..
Rosada[/QUOTE]


Rosada,
To answer your question- He does not want to reconcile(he is very angry), but I do. So, 'fish is Not on a line' ie no control. I do not see putting any boundaries. I am not in touch with him and I was not planning to contact him at all. So, when I asked this question to I Ching- I had this in my mind that I am not going to contact, I just wanted to know if we will get back together. I am confused why I Ching replied 44.3 (coming to meet)?

 

[mudpie]

am confused why I Ching replied 44.3 (coming to meet)?

If it is 44.3, the whole discussion is .....futile?

as for the fish, it is wrapped up and you know how fish are, they smell. I get the unsavory feeling from that image. also, you gotta cook em up fairly soon or they will really smell.
I always thought of this line as being about having enough....but not enough to share, and thus it isnt a good time to consider entertaining anyone's presence.
In the case of this question, I would never see it as an inviting omen, but rather a message to say "leave well enough alone" ....ie, maybe you've long since come to terms with it, wrapped it up, and entertaining the idea of a reconciliation is not advised, even though it might be tempting in a dangerous sort of way.

But 44.3 is more definite. severe warning, imo.

Even though 44 is called "coming to meet"....it refers to a temptingly powerful influence (like lust) that can turn your world upside down. It can be so tempting and alluring that you fail to realize the enormity of what you are undertaking. a whole empire can topple because of giving into this seemingly innocent seduction.

 

[dobro p]

There is no such translation of this line, 'as fish on the line", it does not exist.

Fish in the tank or fish in the wrapper, or in one's kitchen there are fish, and it is not beneficial to entertain guests.

Keep this person away from you as he will only cause trouble for you. So do not entertain him it is not beneficial for you.

1 I know there is no such translation as 'fish on the line'. But I think I think it's a good take on the line we *do* have. It's a useful way to look at this essentially positive line, I think.

2 I agree it's not beneficial to 'guest' the other person.

3 I don't agree that this means you should 'keep away from this person as he will only cause trouble for you'. The Yi says nothing more than it's not advantageous to be in touch with this person now. 'Not advantageous' is not the same as the 'trouble' you see in the line.

 

[scarlet]

Sorry ..I meant 44.2 ..(not 44.3)

 

[dobro p]

Sorry ..I meant 44.2 ..(not 44.3)

Ha! You'll cause a war around here with a mistake like that.

 

[auriel]

aw go fish!
someone has a gift for you. its socially embarrassing, but not unwelcome.
love,
mr. auriel