49, 49.3

[dragona]

Hello, getting hex 49 is not a happy news for me, something would change for worse or already in changing, was my experience in the past, few times I would get it.
Now I am interested in the 3rd line, from practical point of a view, looks easy enough to understand: in wanting somebody`s attitude or conviction to change needs time to happen
and when it has been discussed upon - three times (why three? yes, no, yes or no, yes , no) it may be accomplished.
Or, state your point and wait...but is there some other meaning to this text?
K. Anthony wrote that bad influences weaken when we come to meet them again and again - we build our resistance, by being dulled, I suppose...is that one way to look at this?
Or it implies communication, discussion as a rule?
Thank you for any explanation, d.:bows:

 

[bradford]

it implies patience and timeliness

 

[charly]

Hello, getting hex 49 is not a happy news for me, something would change for worse or already in changing, was my experience in the past, few times I would get it.
Now I am interested in the 3rd line, from practical point of a view, looks easy enough to understand: in wanting somebody`s attitude or conviction to change needs time to happen and when it has been discussed upon - three times (why three? yes, no, yes or no, yes , no) it may be accomplished.
Or, state your point and wait...but is there some other meaning to this text?
K. Anthony wrote that bad influences weaken when we come to meet them again and again - we build our resistance, by being dulled, I suppose...is that one way to look at this?
Or it implies communication, discussion as a rule?
Thank you for any explanation, d.:bows:

Hi, Dragona:

For you I understand 49.3 so:

A REVOLUTION approaches, if you take it with wisdom and understanding it will change your life for better and, even, maybe, can get a husband.

H.49: Change, revolution, revol, rebellion, LAKE (joy) over FIRE (passion).
WATER defeats FIRE, JOY defeats PASSION.

... going to THUNDER below LAKE, arousing inside joy.

It will develop an inner revolution.

Only you can know if it is true, I'm based on the following translation (almost literal):

49.3:

ATTACK: HORRIBLE!
Violence brings misfortune.

OMEN DANGEROUS.
Previsibly dangerous.

CHANGING THREE WORDS ONLY ...
Only changing a few ideas and expressing it with strong words ...

... THERE WILL HAVE A CAPTURE.
... will get results, will obtain adhesion.
​

The image of a rebelion led by persuasion, not only by violence.

Revolutionary power of persuasion instead of dangerous use of violence.

The chinese character used for PERSUASION also means TO ENJOY: Only enjoying three times will have a captive. Instead of going ahead boldy, enjoying three times before and will get a captive (of love).

All the best,


Charly

 

[bradford]

49.3, 9 3rd
To expedite has pitfalls
Commitment is difficult
When talk of change has circled three times
Then be sure


Zhi Gua 17: Sui, Following (Wait for the proper signs)
(Fan Yao 17.3: bound to mature one, give up child for attainment)

 

[meng]

right thing at wrong time
wrong thing at right time
you big loser

wait
then move
tai-ming is everything

 

[dragona]

Thank you gentlemen, especially Charly for a vote of optimism - mind you, I never said what the question was but judging by your interpretation, feels like the Yi is describing what was in the past only, there is no movement this one concerned.

 

[dragona]

Expanding on this a bit, perhaps, but what of this three days before and after (hex 18, just recieved yesterday), three times mentioned above...can it bee seen as three trial periods of sort, three times conversed upon something literally, or just this phrase denotes great deal of consideration/reconsideration on the matter in hand, even one sided?
Charly`s translation gives the idea of how loose this could be interpreted, I suppose....

 

[charly]

...
Charly`s translation gives the idea of how loose this could be interpreted, I suppose....

Hi, Dragona:

Translation is not fully based on interpretation. There is degree of freedom because the chinese characters (and words) are highly polisemic. I believe that we must begin with an as literal as possible translation.

In the context of a consult interpretation is unavoidable, and that's the good.

49.3 chinese text and most common meanings:

征 zheng1: attack / levy (troops or taxes) / journey / trip / expedition /
凶 xiong1: fierce / terrible / ominous /
貞 zhen1: perseverant / chaste / virtuous / pure / loyal // divination / omen /
厲 li4: severe / stern / cruel / dangerous /
革 ge2: leather / remove / molt // rebellion / revolution /
言 yan2: to speak / to say / talk / word /
三 san1: three / 3 /
就 jiu4: at once / then / right away / only // to approach / to move towards /
有 you3: to have / there is / there are // to exist / to be /
孚 fu2: trust / confidence / reliability / sicere // captive / to capture /​

ATTACK TERRIBLE OMEN DANGEROUS: REVOLUTION.
Horible attacks, dangerous omens, tha's Revolution.

WORDS THREE ONLY HAVE CAPTIVE.
Three words only [and] will have [a] captive.

What sort of revolution is the Changes speaking about?
What are the three magic words?

Maybe «I LOVE YOU», maybe «I UNDESTAND YOU»...

The list is open...


All the best,


Charly

P.D.:
貞厲 zhen1 li4 can be rendered as «to persevere is dangerous» or as «to divine is dangerous» but in divination we have more feelings than certitudes, I prefer «dangerous omens».

Of course, there are many other meanings like «women are dangerous» (1) or as «love is dangerous» (2), but that's another story.
______________
(1) because chinese said that the character depicts a sacred vessel or stored up pierced cowries (= female genitalia).
(2) The addition of the upper itiphallic branched stroke (pu = divination) + the lower cowries suggests sexual intercourse as much as cowrie divination.

Ch.

 

[gene]

dragona

It might be wise to forget the first one. Trying to get someone's attitude to change is usually an exercise in futility, and it is not our right necessarily to do it. The best thing to do is change our own attitude. It is also wise, in 49.3, to react to something the first time we hear about it. We need confirmation. We also need to be sure of the circumstances and make sure our understanding of the situation is correct.

I suppose K. Anthony has her point although I don't think she states it in an easily understandable way. Maybe I am not either, but I will try. Bad influences weaken when we stand up to them, but not necessarily at first. We must show the universe that we are in earnest, and not just giving up token resistance. In that way too, we must "prove" ourselves to the universe that we are in earnest, and therefore, it is symbolically, when we have wrestled with the situation the "third time around" that the universe recognizes our persistence, and realizes that we are in earnest, and that it is warranted that the universe help us through our difficulties. In another manner of speaking, often the subconscious mind has its own programming and it is not until a new "program" has been implemented within it that we start to see changes in our lives. Once again, the universe, our subconscious mind needs verification that this is what we truly want or need in our lives.

And as far as some other meaning, YES, for the entire I Ching is written on many levels, for many situations, and many time periods, and any line can mean almost anything depending on what the Sage, (our higher selves) feels we can accept or understand at the given time.

Gene

 

[dragona]

Thank you both again for taking the time and sincere concern for my quiery.
Tehnical difficulties are unabling me to go through the answers as I would like to, much to think about...and if 3 words inded are to be pondered upon, those may as well be I DON`T CARE (and neither should you)....this is on purely academic level now anyway...