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50 - The Cauldron
- Thread starter cguleff
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cal val
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Egad! Can I ever relate. See this thread (the adventure is peppered arond other threads as well) - http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/48/753.html?. I got the Cauldron repeatedly around the time the Yi and my dreams started me on a journey of self-discovery. My last long post in the 50 to 8 thread is where they were leading me. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/48/753.html?#POST8421 That's why I posted it there.
Here's Nigel Richmond's very fitting interpretation of 50 (for what I experienced).
<BLOCKQUOTE>He titles 50...what else? Integration
Pattern:
Steady unwavering preparations
make enlightenment possible.
Nature:
The bird carefully chooses
when building its nest
in which to nurture its young.
Human:
He persists constantly
in melding together
his life's ingredients.
This alchemy
transforms his awareness.
Form:
Continuous interaction
of individuals in society
nourishes an awareness
of the whole.</BLOCKQUOTE>
Good luck!
Love,
Val
Here's Nigel Richmond's very fitting interpretation of 50 (for what I experienced).
<BLOCKQUOTE>He titles 50...what else? Integration
Pattern:
Steady unwavering preparations
make enlightenment possible.
Nature:
The bird carefully chooses
when building its nest
in which to nurture its young.
Human:
He persists constantly
in melding together
his life's ingredients.
This alchemy
transforms his awareness.
Form:
Continuous interaction
of individuals in society
nourishes an awareness
of the whole.</BLOCKQUOTE>
Good luck!
Love,
Val
dobro p
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For me, Hex 50 means making yourself a vessel of spiritual experience. Which makes this a very important time in your life.
But also for me, when I get the same hexagram two or three times in a row, it means I'm not really understanding it, or I'm understanding it but not putting it into practice, or that the situation's so important that it really needs my repeated attention.
But also for me, when I get the same hexagram two or three times in a row, it means I'm not really understanding it, or I'm understanding it but not putting it into practice, or that the situation's so important that it really needs my repeated attention.
cal val
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Dobro...
There was a whole lot of the spiritual to my experience. And it was the spiritual "infusion" that led me to my discovery. Actually it was more like they dragged me kicking and screaming. It's all over this forum in bits and pieces.
Love,
Val
There was a whole lot of the spiritual to my experience. And it was the spiritual "infusion" that led me to my discovery. Actually it was more like they dragged me kicking and screaming. It's all over this forum in bits and pieces.
Love,
Val
hilary
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I like Nigel Richmond's 'human' version of hexagram 50. It seems to me to be a time when you 'melt down' a lot of the raw stuff of experience and cook it into something sacred - making the experience meaningful, iow. The key words are 'contain and transform'. It can be a character-forming process - universities are good Vessels.
Of course it can also be prosaic - advice to hold onto money rather than spend it, fr'instance. Anyone have any more prosaic examples?
Of course it can also be prosaic - advice to hold onto money rather than spend it, fr'instance. Anyone have any more prosaic examples?
Sometimes transformation is not such a pleasant process as going to school. To turn the raw into the cooked usually requires fire, a lot of fire. So life-changing experiences often involve suffering. Sickness, disappointment, loss, war. I think Iraq is becoming one of the great Cauldrons of our time. Thousands of men and women will come home, if they come home, cooked in a fire that does not necessarily purify. Perhaps a better translation for Ding is not "vessel" or "cauldron," but "crucible." If only it were true that alchemy always produces gold! Some are refined by the fire, by many are just burnt out.
Hi y'all
This was the Hexagram that to Jung, was the I Ching
speaking about itself. "But the truly divine does not manifest itself apart from man. The supreme revelation of God appears in Prophets and Holy men. To venerate them is the true veneration of God. The will of God as revealed through them, should be accepted in humility: this brings inner enlightenment and true understanding of the world, and this leads to great good fortune and success".
If true humility and acceptance are yours when approaching this hexagram,then you have the life changing key.
This was the Hexagram that to Jung, was the I Ching
speaking about itself. "But the truly divine does not manifest itself apart from man. The supreme revelation of God appears in Prophets and Holy men. To venerate them is the true veneration of God. The will of God as revealed through them, should be accepted in humility: this brings inner enlightenment and true understanding of the world, and this leads to great good fortune and success".
If true humility and acceptance are yours when approaching this hexagram,then you have the life changing key.
cal val
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Hi Django!
Lindsay...
Did you by chance go through the crucible in Viet Nam? Your post radiates an experiental knowing.
Love,
Val
Lindsay...
Did you by chance go through the crucible in Viet Nam? Your post radiates an experiental knowing.
Love,
Val
megabbobby
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hex 50--the yin in the situation is so wonderful
that it could be used as a vessel to
sacrifice to the most highest
that it could be used as a vessel to
sacrifice to the most highest
Sorry, Val, I didn?t mean to make this topic about me or to talk politics. I agree with everyone so far about Hexagram 50 - up to a point. Very nice and wonderful, really. But if you honestly want to take a serious look at the process of transformation, you have to admit it nearly always occurs under stress. The result may be beautiful, people have been known to blossom and flower, but it isn?t easy or fun for anyone. And ? what Jungians don?t like to talk about ? transformation can be negative and destructive. People also turn into monsters and pillars of salt. Hexagram 50 is potentially an iffy, even dangerous situation. My advice is don?t go into the kitchen unless you know how to cook.
In a larger picture, I feel most Yi commentary these days sounds like frogs croaking around the pond. I long for three-dimensional views of the hexagrams. People seem to open the Yi and fall asleep. I say, let?s read the thing awake. I personally read it with special glasses with blue and red lenses.
In a larger picture, I feel most Yi commentary these days sounds like frogs croaking around the pond. I long for three-dimensional views of the hexagrams. People seem to open the Yi and fall asleep. I say, let?s read the thing awake. I personally read it with special glasses with blue and red lenses.
bradford_h
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Hi Django-
I too have heard it said that nothing was cooked in the Dings, only served.
But this is unambiguously contradicted by the text of 50.3,where the cauldron cannot be removed from the fire.
I too have heard it said that nothing was cooked in the Dings, only served.
But this is unambiguously contradicted by the text of 50.3,where the cauldron cannot be removed from the fire.
cal val
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I've heard otherwise Brad and Django. I heard they were originally cooking pots, first clay and then bronze, during the Shang Dynasty and then evolved into ritual sacrificial vessels sitting alongside jues at the table.
They also evolved into status symbols over time. The more dings (up to nine), the more status. And they were inscribed with more and more information over time until they became historical accounts.
Love,
Val
They also evolved into status symbols over time. The more dings (up to nine), the more status. And they were inscribed with more and more information over time until they became historical accounts.
Love,
Val
cal val
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I tend to follow "threads" in thinking... you know... connect the dots. And there's a thread of of castings that's happened here in this forum involving the ding that I find intriguing.
Marian once asked what is woman's position in the world today, and the Yi answered 44.5 to 50. 44.5, as we know, uses the sexual symbolism that is found throughout 44. I made some jokes in Marian's thread about it sounding like the Yi was saying our place is barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen (cooking in the ding). But actually, all kidding aside, the delicate fruit that spoils easily and is therefore wrapped in protective leaves really reminds me of a fetus in utero.
Then a couple of days ago, Pam posted in this thread that when she was pregnant with her youngest son, she asked who this person was that she carried inside her, and the Yi answered 50. When I read that, I started thinking about Marion's question and the Yi's answer and the corroboration it gave to my original interpretation of 44.5.
Love,
Val
Marian once asked what is woman's position in the world today, and the Yi answered 44.5 to 50. 44.5, as we know, uses the sexual symbolism that is found throughout 44. I made some jokes in Marian's thread about it sounding like the Yi was saying our place is barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen (cooking in the ding). But actually, all kidding aside, the delicate fruit that spoils easily and is therefore wrapped in protective leaves really reminds me of a fetus in utero.
Then a couple of days ago, Pam posted in this thread that when she was pregnant with her youngest son, she asked who this person was that she carried inside her, and the Yi answered 50. When I read that, I started thinking about Marion's question and the Yi's answer and the corroboration it gave to my original interpretation of 44.5.
Love,
Val
bradford_h
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Hi Val-
Makes sense to me. This happens a lot with archaeologists.
I live in the American Southwest, near lots of Anasazi ruins,
where the round Kiva type dwellings were used for sacred
ceremonies. But when the diggers come across whole
villages of mostly round dwelllings they immediately conclude
"my word, weren't these a spiritual people!"
Instead of seeing it as an architectural style that became
popular because it was easy to build and then preferred for
its esthetic qualities when sacred spaces were to be built.
So I'm ready to say that function came first with the Ding.
Makes sense to me. This happens a lot with archaeologists.
I live in the American Southwest, near lots of Anasazi ruins,
where the round Kiva type dwellings were used for sacred
ceremonies. But when the diggers come across whole
villages of mostly round dwelllings they immediately conclude
"my word, weren't these a spiritual people!"
Instead of seeing it as an architectural style that became
popular because it was easy to build and then preferred for
its esthetic qualities when sacred spaces were to be built.
So I'm ready to say that function came first with the Ding.
cal val
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Hi Brad...
Yeah, when I was getting all those 50s, I did a bit of research on dings trying to understand what the Yi was telling me. I learned a lot about them, saw a lot of pictures, and then had the good fortune to see a nice little collection of them in the art museum when I was visiting Philadelphia.
But, of course, in spite of all that, I didn't understand what the Yi was telling me until after I experienced it.
Love,
Val
Yeah, when I was getting all those 50s, I did a bit of research on dings trying to understand what the Yi was telling me. I learned a lot about them, saw a lot of pictures, and then had the good fortune to see a nice little collection of them in the art museum when I was visiting Philadelphia.
But, of course, in spite of all that, I didn't understand what the Yi was telling me until after I experienced it.
Love,
Val
hilary
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Agreed - something is definitely changing state inside this ding. Doesn't the Daxiang (Image) say literally that the junzi's fate is 'solidified' by the process?
martin
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Is the spiritual food cooked in this pot or not? LOL!
Does it matter when you are hungry?
Perhaps it's cooked in that old ugly iron kettle that your grandma used to wash her underwear! Who cares?
For heavens sake,
good food is good food!
Does it matter when you are hungry?
Perhaps it's cooked in that old ugly iron kettle that your grandma used to wash her underwear! Who cares?
For heavens sake,
C
candid
Guest
Martin, mangia, è buono per lei!
bradford_h
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Hi Hilary-
Grammatically the voice isn't passive. It isn't happening to him.
The Junzi Uses/applies (Yi) Correct placement/positioning (Zheng Wei)
to realize/ manifest/solidify/consolidate (Ning) Destiny/fate/higher purpose.
To me this is the deliberate act of an alchemist
using some sort of foreknowledge of the outcome.
Grammatically the voice isn't passive. It isn't happening to him.
The Junzi Uses/applies (Yi) Correct placement/positioning (Zheng Wei)
to realize/ manifest/solidify/consolidate (Ning) Destiny/fate/higher purpose.
To me this is the deliberate act of an alchemist
using some sort of foreknowledge of the outcome.
martin
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Did you mean "it eats, is good for she!", Candid?
That is what the online translator (Italian to English) says ...
That is what the online translator (Italian to English) says ...
martin
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If I want I can see a process in 50: it distills the spirit or essence (fire) from experience and memories (wood). Like wine from grapes.
Does that make sense?
Judging from some of the imagery in the Yi the writers must have known how to make alcohol ..
Does that make sense?
Judging from some of the imagery in the Yi the writers must have known how to make alcohol ..
C
candid
Guest
chuckles, Martin. damn translators!
C
candid
Guest
A pot is a pot is a pot. To cook, serve or plant flowers. Physical, spiritual, academic.. it?s all food.
C
candid
Guest
Going out on a limb, in good faith.
I maintain that this forum is as much 50 as Jung?s collective whatchamacallit. In fact, most communities are.
Being that I have an interest in guitars, I occasion a G&L (George and Leo Fender) web-board. Learn all kinds of interesting tidbits about guitars, amps, recording methods, etc. Well, recently I?ve noticed that the regulars were all upset over some less-than-sincere remarks made by a few, who?s interest and presence in the community were not more prominent than a few comments thrown in, often simply to raise a few hackles on the more stoic members? necks. I usually just read and not say much there. But I responded to a fair sized fire, flaming through the threads, and so offered a couple of observations. I was then asked for more information. Not much I could say, really. It is a community. A big pot of people.
Cajun Boy,
?Ever notice how these guys never complain, never tell a fart joke, never get in the middle of a ridiculous argument??
Yup. Takes all kinds to make a community. It?s like styles of playing, no? Some never venture far from their discipline. Others only adlib from the heart. Reminds me of what Steve Tyler said; something to the affect that Tyler is tight while Perry is loose, and that?s what makes magic in the band. (like John & Paul?)
Most of my board experience is on a Yijing website. There we have scholars and authors (purists?), but also the inspired, the dreamers, the comedians, the drama kings and queens (think: band manager).... everything you have here. Everything every well-rounded community has. It?s all good, really. One receives from the other what they themselves do not possess. Or at least that?s the ideal.
Candid
I maintain that this forum is as much 50 as Jung?s collective whatchamacallit. In fact, most communities are.
Being that I have an interest in guitars, I occasion a G&L (George and Leo Fender) web-board. Learn all kinds of interesting tidbits about guitars, amps, recording methods, etc. Well, recently I?ve noticed that the regulars were all upset over some less-than-sincere remarks made by a few, who?s interest and presence in the community were not more prominent than a few comments thrown in, often simply to raise a few hackles on the more stoic members? necks. I usually just read and not say much there. But I responded to a fair sized fire, flaming through the threads, and so offered a couple of observations. I was then asked for more information. Not much I could say, really. It is a community. A big pot of people.
Cajun Boy,
?Ever notice how these guys never complain, never tell a fart joke, never get in the middle of a ridiculous argument??
Yup. Takes all kinds to make a community. It?s like styles of playing, no? Some never venture far from their discipline. Others only adlib from the heart. Reminds me of what Steve Tyler said; something to the affect that Tyler is tight while Perry is loose, and that?s what makes magic in the band. (like John & Paul?)
Most of my board experience is on a Yijing website. There we have scholars and authors (purists?), but also the inspired, the dreamers, the comedians, the drama kings and queens (think: band manager).... everything you have here. Everything every well-rounded community has. It?s all good, really. One receives from the other what they themselves do not possess. Or at least that?s the ideal.
Candid
hilary
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A new contribution arrived just yesterday for my 'I Ching resources' site. (The first for several months.) How many guesses would you like as to the hexagram of the answer?
http://www.ichingresources.co.uk/hexagrams/h50.html
http://www.ichingresources.co.uk/hexagrams/h50.html
C
candid
Guest
Hilary,
Ahh, the grand consipracy of it all.
Ahh, the grand consipracy of it all.
Hi y'all
Bradford ,I use the Wilhelm edition and will quote
the third changing line....The handle of the Ting is altered. One is impeded in his way of life. The fat of the pheasnt is not eaten.Once rain falls, remorse is spent. Good fortune comes in the end.
The handle is the means for lifting up the Ting. If the handle is altered, the ting cannot be lifted up and used, and sad to say , the delicious food in it , such as the pheasant fat cannot be eaten by anyone.
This describes a man who, in a highly evolved civilisation finds himself in a place where no one notices or recognises him etc,,,,,
no mention of fire
Candid... I used the Jungian metaphor simply because I have studied Jung for more years than I care to remember I could just as easy have used ...Earlier heaven, fourth dimension parallel universes and so on....
Django.
Bradford ,I use the Wilhelm edition and will quote
the third changing line....The handle of the Ting is altered. One is impeded in his way of life. The fat of the pheasnt is not eaten.Once rain falls, remorse is spent. Good fortune comes in the end.
The handle is the means for lifting up the Ting. If the handle is altered, the ting cannot be lifted up and used, and sad to say , the delicious food in it , such as the pheasant fat cannot be eaten by anyone.
This describes a man who, in a highly evolved civilisation finds himself in a place where no one notices or recognises him etc,,,,,
no mention of fire
Candid... I used the Jungian metaphor simply because I have studied Jung for more years than I care to remember I could just as easy have used ...Earlier heaven, fourth dimension parallel universes and so on....
Django.
bradford_h
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Django
"no mention of fire"
Sorry- I don't take the WB that seriously.
There's a gag in this line that everyone misses.
Why do you suppose that (fang yu kui hui)
a sudden rain would diminish regret?
Why would rain allow you to eat your fat pheasant?
"no mention of fire"
Sorry- I don't take the WB that seriously.
There's a gag in this line that everyone misses.
Why do you suppose that (fang yu kui hui)
a sudden rain would diminish regret?
Why would rain allow you to eat your fat pheasant?
M
micheline
Guest
Although none of the men and probably not many of the women here will appreciate this, today I was struck with the perfect image of hex 50......
menopause!.......this was after a hot flash, and I have only been having them about a week now, altho I am 52.
I am the sacred ting, a woman in menopause.
my whole being is in transformation, I am cooking from inside out. They say a menopausal woman releases new potential, becomes more psychic, intuitive, wise. I am ready.
I found the hot flash kind of pleasant, altho I never heard anyone else say that. I like the sensation of heat. I feel happy about myself and this time of life. there are losses, but so many gains.
hex 50........
menopause!.......this was after a hot flash, and I have only been having them about a week now, altho I am 52.
I am the sacred ting, a woman in menopause.
my whole being is in transformation, I am cooking from inside out. They say a menopausal woman releases new potential, becomes more psychic, intuitive, wise. I am ready.
I found the hot flash kind of pleasant, altho I never heard anyone else say that. I like the sensation of heat. I feel happy about myself and this time of life. there are losses, but so many gains.
hex 50........